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Agamemnon2 wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Totally agree, dakka is not 4chan or other virtual trash orientated site.
If there is such a thing as a limit to what is unapropriate I think this ridiculous picture of a random cow with gigantic cock and boobs for balls sculpt (not even wargames orientated) IS it.
Besides what kind of news is this... "For slaanesh worshippers only" and slams a 4chan nonsense picture with no relevant info...
Poor judgement.

I would not call this "virtual trash", for reasons I've previously discussed. I know I overuse the example, but the famous World War 2 diorama "My God, why do you throw me away?" comes to mind. It was a technically flawless piece, assembled with all the modelling skill in the world, depicting German soldiers executing civilians. The many-uddered cowgirl, too, is sculpted extremely well, but is a subject few people here are comfortable with. That's fine, but I would say we should tolerate it.

On a tangent, what's it sculpted of, can anyone tell? Looks like some kind of clay to me, possibly the oven-hardened stuff Rackham used to use.

EDIT: It looks like it was too much for 4chan to bear, the link now leads to 404.

I can tolerate it mate , if i was doing a nonsense brainstorming. Besides its not a question of the actual piece quality but the context wich the OP tried to impose here... To me this piece doesnt matter if its well executed because I cant link it to our hobby in any possible way... the idea that this has something to do with warhammer is ridiculous to me, as such I consider this piece just random babling and so trash.
I could flood this forum with bug pictures since its my vision of nids... no matter how good those pics were no one would gain anything from it... Now I imagine my bugs all have genitalia and I post a pic of a beetle sculpt with a huge pussy. Whats the point really?
The bridges crossed in this topic are not even builted in my opinion... And the agravations that the explicit cow penis could raise in real life is more than enough to justify not posting this in the first place.

Ahtman wrote:Porn doesn't mean graphic sex. It can just a be a person not 'touching themselves' and still be pornographic. It is a very difficult thing to describe, which is why even legally the best thing a Supreme Court Justice (Potter Stewart) could do was to say that he couldn't describe it but "that i know it when I see it".

Not a bad explanation

I don't know that it wasn't worth having a look at and I'm certainly not convinced that it isn't worth having this chat about. There is a good conversation here, actually, about how far you can take your daemons before--as you correctly point out, I think--get so far away from Warhammer altogther.

NAVARRO wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Totally agree, dakka is not 4chan or other virtual trash orientated site.
If there is such a thing as a limit to what is unapropriate I think this ridiculous picture of a random cow with gigantic cock and boobs for balls sculpt (not even wargames orientated) IS it.
Besides what kind of news is this... "For slaanesh worshippers only" and slams a 4chan nonsense picture with no relevant info...
Poor judgement.

I would not call this "virtual trash", for reasons I've previously discussed. I know I overuse the example, but the famous World War 2 diorama "My God, why do you throw me away?" comes to mind. It was a technically flawless piece, assembled with all the modelling skill in the world, depicting German soldiers executing civilians. The many-uddered cowgirl, too, is sculpted extremely well, but is a subject few people here are comfortable with. That's fine, but I would say we should tolerate it.

On a tangent, what's it sculpted of, can anyone tell? Looks like some kind of clay to me, possibly the oven-hardened stuff Rackham used to use.

EDIT: It looks like it was too much for 4chan to bear, the link now leads to 404.

I can tolerate it mate , if i was doing a nonsense brainstorming. Besides its not a question of the actual piece quality but the context wich the OP tried to impose here... To me this piece doesnt matter if its well executed because I cant link it to our hobby in any possible way... the idea that this has something to do with warhammer is ridiculous to me, as such I consider this piece just random babling and so trash.
I could flood this forum with bug pictures since its my vision of nids... no matter how good those pics were no one would gain anything from it... Now I imagine my bugs all have genitalia and I post a pic of a beetle sculpt with a huge pussy. Whats the point really?
The bridges crossed in this topic are not even builted in my opinion... And the agravations that the explicit cow penis could raise in real life is more than enough to justify not posting this in the first place.

I don't think this is trash, and while it may anger the purists... It can be argued that it is part of Warhammer in the sense that it is one person's interpretation of it. And isn't that what fantasy gaming is all about? It may be sexually explicit, but people do have the right to argue their views in a public forum. Even if no one else agrees with it.

Also it did a good job offending certain people and that's good, by sparking controversy - there is something gained, in the very least people's ideas were broadened and it certainly made me look twice the first time I saw it

If it had not been posted in the first place, there wouldn't be such an interesting conversation

binky wrote:Also it did a good job offending certain people and that's good, by sparking controversy - there is something gained, in the very least people's ideas were broadened and it certainly made me look twice the first time I saw it

If it had not been posted in the first place, there wouldn't be such an interesting conversation

Hmmm . While I certainly understand and agree that in making a valid point one might need to say something that others will find offensive. But to make a point for the sake of offending people in order to create controversy is usually not an affective method of debate as being needlessly offensive tends to build walls rather than bridges. Controversy for the sake of controversy usually just cements both sides' position.

Edit: I am in no way implying that this was the OP intention

Good point but I didn't mean controversy for the sake of controversy. I meant things that are weird and different, like say a painting by Salvador Dali - might mess with some minds but is just a way for the artist to express themselves. if that model is indeed meant solely for self expression and not just the gross factor, than it is as much a piece of art as anything else. sorry for the confusion.

Sure thing debate all the random concepts you want... just not on dakka news

Things do really depend on the background of each user... personally I dont need controversy just for the sake of it and I find this topic just that.
As for "ideas were broadened "... depends on your creative background also... This is more ideas shortened and simplified to the most crude boundries.

binky wrote:It can be argued that it is part of Warhammer in the sense that it is one person's interpretation of it.

That's a terrible argument, one that NAVARRO already addressed. I have no trouble calling it "art" in the sense that it involved a combination of technical skill and natural talent. Once again, the fact that something is art does not preclude it from being in poor taste (thank you for bringing up Dali, btw). I have trouble identifying this as having anything to do with Warhammer, however, and thus my question about whether this actually has anything to do with it or whether Luna just came across it and posted it to inspire/repulse dakkaites, prodding us into what I agree (and already said) was a very useful conversation.

Navarro, please read above comment. I was not arguing controversy for the sake of controversy.

Manchu, I don't think it's a terrible argument - I think it's a weak one, but if the model wasn't attached to Warhammer at all this whole forum could be called off-topic, and it's not. I do think the idea was based loosely on Slaaneshi, or the best way to know would be to ask Luna - she found the picture. So she'd know. {And ya Dali rules }

But it all boils down to two words : Personal Interpretation Ask the guy who made the model - if it has anything to do with this topic the creator is probably interested, or p*ssing himself laughing. Either way, it's still a good convo.

binky wrote:
Also it did a good job offending certain people and that's good, by sparking controversy - there is something gained, in the very least people's ideas were broadened and it certainly made me look twice the first time I saw it

Who was "offended"? If most people objecting to it are like myself, it's because it's crass and adolescent. I don't think it's offensive, I think it's rubbish.

I think this model does a better job of transmitting the Slaanesh vibe than anything GW would produce themselves. In the same way that Space Marines and Tyranids have become more outrageous and excessive over the years, this is where Slaaneshi stuff would have gone if it had kept pace.

I'm trying to keep this in perspective. Space Marines are in the business of committing genocide, right? We all seem to be okay with that. This ram-headed freak is unarmed.

"Totally NSFW" is really all the warning I need for this model. It would be in bad taste to field it because it's not the sort of thing you want to expose a 13-year-old to. But as 34-year-old who can appreciate it as a work of art, it's no more disturbing to me than Necromunda ganger models depicted in the process of murdering one another.

DagobahDave you made a good point.

The penis scares me. *Shivers* /d/...

People are freaking out because of the male genitalia. If it was just boobs and a female organ or covered, I guarantee half the people knocking it would have been silent. Yet the whole hermaphrodite thing has long been a staple of Slaanesh, as has beast headed greater daemons. (Nor surprising as both are a reference to ancient fertility symbol). As pointed out, the work looks very much like an ancient fertility symbolism. The giant phallus was very common in the ancient world (though not affixed to female fertility imagery such as the breasts and hips of this model). However, the blending of female sexual imagery and male sexual potency imagery (animal head, exaggerated phallus) seems perfectly in line with warpspawn of Slaanesh. It is a perversion of sexual desire and power lust.

Completely inappropriate for a gamestore where minors are going to be, though. And will probably make you look like a weirdo for putting it on the table.

DagobahDave wrote:I think this model does a better job of transmitting the Slaanesh vibe than anything GW would produce themselves.

I will agree that Slaanesh in its rawest state is indecent to the extreme (and given the large number of children who play this game, I have never been comfortable with the Slaanesh theme of "Excess" to begin with). Nevertheless, I certainly hope that GW would never make something like this. It crossed the line of indecency a mile back and kept running.

binky wrote:Manchu, I don't think it's a terrible argument - I think it's a weak one, but if the model wasn't attached to Warhammer at all this whole forum could be called off-topic, and it's not.

It's not too late.

Also, I don't think the concept that the models are shooting at each other (KILL! MAIM! BURN!) is quite the equivalent of the boobied-vagina-bull-cock.

DagobahDave wrote:I think this model does a better job of transmitting the Slaanesh vibe than anything GW would produce themselves. In the same way that Space Marines and Tyranids have become more outrageous and excessive over the years, this is where Slaaneshi stuff would have gone if it had kept pace.

I'm trying to keep this in perspective. Space Marines are in the business of committing genocide, right? We all seem to be okay with that. This ram-headed freak is unarmed.

"Totally NSFW" is really all the warning I need for this model. I would be in bad taste to field it because it's not the sort of thing you want to expose a 13-year-old to. But as 34-year-old who can appreciate it as a work of art, it's no more disturbing to me than Necromunda ganger models depicted in the process of murdering one another.

Honestly to all this is the basics:
A: the VIBE as you call it is your own interpritation and is your right. As I have stated previously their are multiple layers to slaanesh that are all excess with the whole nudity level only being a small part of it, but we as people zero in on it since well to quote the movie industry "sex sells".
B: Personally I disdain the model cause well I think minus the head it's a horrible sculpt and looks way out of context for warhammer I mean their are nor forms of weapons on it what so ever, and I personally think we are doing exactly as luna wanted by argueing over it.
C: the term "GENOCIDE" is used completely out of context as well THIS IS A BOARD GAME. Their is no mass executions or ethenic cleansing just dice and removing of models. Last I checked video games have more violence in them and OO those are fake too.

No do not take this as I am upset or angry just putting a point across that I think people should see. This is our hobby not real life. We develope stories behind our hobby to enjoy it more and build a small world of fantasy that we can enjoy with our friends and other lovers of the hobby. As someone who has seen the real war(I hate ever using it but at this moment feel it's nessicary) I feel that to make any refernce to killing of other in a literal format is just silly and well out of place. Now commence the bashing of me please and OO binky loving your points your making keep them comming.

I'm relatively new here, so let me get this straight.

On this forum, where there is a blog showing a custom sculpt of a pregnant, crab-walking war machine (that, in alternate iterations, had a bondage mask/hood/grimace of bliss and a cannon protruding cesarean-style from its belly) got nothing but rave reviews, people are deeply offended by a cow-person with an exaggerated phallus?

On this forum, which is mostly focused on one of the most open ended (for better and worse) gaming systems ever devised, there are people trying to dictate what does and does not constitute the correct interpretation of Slaanesh or excess or taste?

Nazis and hermaphrodites in a fantasy setting are no-nos, but massive genocide (exterminatus), religious persecution, abject predjudice, and pornographic violence are just part and parcel of the game?

Really?


As I said, I'm new here, so please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this, but has dakka eschewed the IMO abbreviation. Because if you haven't, there are certainly a lot of people trying to dictate a lot of personal beliefs on the rest of the members. Taste is personal, pornography has hazy boundaries and is relative, and opinions are just that.

In my opinion, of course.

zeronyne wrote:I'm relatively new here, so let me get this straight.

On this forum, where there is a blog showing a custom sculpt of a pregnant, crab-walking war machine (that, in alternate iterations, had a bondage mask/hood/grimace of bliss and a cannon protruding cesarean-style from its belly) got nothing but rave reviews, people are deeply offended by a cow-person with an exaggerated phallus?

QUITE NEW GUY...jkjk just playing. I understand your opinon and in part agree to an extent. The thing is with sersis he is not over doing anything and though to a groteque nature of the models he's producing they are still tied into warhammer. I think the biggest problem some people(personally I just have grown to care less but imbored at work) have is that the model in question in no way really ties into warhammer. If it had some claws weapons whatever I think some of all this arguement would go away.

Taste is not nearly as personal as you might imagine. Go outside naked and walk through town. Try swearing at the top of your voice while you're at it. Maybe hand out dirty magazines on the playgrounds, as well.

This isn't about censorship, stir as hard as you like. Go ahead and bring the thing to the FLGS, where you will be roundly written off as a pervy weirdo but also a quite talented sculptor. Frankly, I have the same opinion about Sersi's work: great job, very imaginative, doesn't really have a place in mainstream 40k.

Since you're new, let me offer a friendly piece of advice: read the threads for comprehension rather than controversy.

Meanwhile, @Empchild: Seeing as how you're correct, I fear that you'll be repeating yourself a few time hereinafter.

Manchu wrote:Taste is not nearly as personal as you might imagine. Go outside naked and walk through town. Try swearing at the top of your voice while you're at it. Maybe hand out dirty magazines on the playgrounds, as well.

Meanwhile, @Empchild: Seeing as how you're correct, I fear that you'll be repeating yourself a few time hereinafter.

as per your first statement their.....wanna hang out cause you sound like FUN!!!!!!!!! as too your second can you tell my wife that cause she never thinks im correct off topic I know but ya im bored.

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:This forum doesn't even have mods any more does it?

Sure does, care to be test banned to reinforce belief?
The model at this time is appropriately covered. Its disturbing (I'm not opening the 4Chan to see the real deal), but guess what guys thats Rogue Trader demon style disturbing, thats how your favorite slaanesh really is. Frankly its not far off from various fertility statues I've seen in Real Life (TM).

I thought you had me on ignore big guy!

Anyway, this comes from FurAffinity, a deviantart for the furry community which is by in large used for unprofessional distribution of Fur related porn materials (also awful poetry and fiction stories that no one reads). I very highly doubt this was created to be similar to a fertility statue or as an anatomical study. In fact, a glance at the sight stamped on the photo shows that this is distinctly dissimilar from the rest of the artists works. This is clearly -extremely- oversexualized likely for the exact purpose it was posted here for. Shock factor. This would actually be a fairly interesting art piece if the artist wasn't so clearly obsessed with highschool-maturity anthropomorphic pencil sketching, as it is that bleaches it of any sort of social stigma or shock art factor and basically just leaves it as a giant throbbing dick multiball 6 boobed cowgirl in an alluring pose sculpted by a furry artist.

:edit:
The artist doesn't even have the work in full view uncensored on his own website, and the URL names it candy.

zeronyne wrote: Because if you haven't, there are certainly a lot of people trying to dictate a lot of personal beliefs on the rest of the members. Taste is personal, pornography has hazy boundaries and is relative, and opinions are just that.

In my opinion, of course.

Not relative on dakka and Im never a rule monger but this dakka rule kind of sums it up for me just nicelly and I really would like to quote it, hope no one minds it...

"It also should go without saying that swearing, profanity, sexual references, etc, are strictly forbidden, including all images that are posted on or uploaded to our site. Remember that we have users of all ages and that Dakka should be a welcoming place for everyone to enjoy. "

Theres more stuff about it but i liked the "Remember that we have users of all ages "

So I ask this do you feel this image is apropriate under the rules? Personally I dont ever try to impose my beliefs to anyone because Im happy with them and Im also happy with diferent people having diferent ideas.
Although I find unapropriate someone catching a random crude net image with no affiliation to our hobbies and shove down in news forums. If I express my reproval for such content doesnt mean I want to impose myself to anyone.

binky I only saw the other posts about the controversy issue after.

ShumaGorath wrote:Anyway, this comes from FurAffinity, a deviantart for the furry community which is by in large used for unprofessional distribution of Fur related porn materials (also awful poetry and fiction stories that no one reads). I very highly doubt this was created to be similar to a fertility statue or as an anatomical study. In fact, a glance at the sight stamped on the photo shows that this is distinctly dissimilar from the rest of the artists works. This is clearly -extremely- oversexualized likely for the exact purpose it was posted here for. Shock factor. This would actually be a fairly interesting art piece if the artist wasn't so clearly obsessed with highschool-maturity anthropomorphic pencil sketching, as it is that bleaches it of any sort of social stigma or shock art factor and basically just leaves it as a giant throbbing dick multiball 6 boobed cowgirl in an alluring pose sculpted by a furry artist.

Neither the creator's motive nor the work's distribution media are, I feel, relevant. What if Dan Abnett had written all his novels as a part of a bizarre work-off-your-guilt sentence for lewd behavior? It doesn't affect what's on the page. Besides, I think trying to assay or scry the motivations of people you've never met on the basis of their published portfolio of work.

Also, could we have less of the whole "furries are sick perverts and I want nothing to do with them" schtick. We don't go around making snide remarks or crass insults about any other group of people based on their aesthetic or fetishistic inclinations, so I'd've thought that same marginal tolerance should be extended to them as well. Tolerance, mark you. You don't have to like them, just refrain from open insults in the same way we don't engage in Jew jokes or Buddhist-bashing.

Agamemnon2 wrote:or Buddhist-bashing.

that sounds pervy :p

but i agree with much of wahts being siad here by certain peopel i think people need to need to tkae the model on its own merits i also think peopel need to consider the hobby they are part off before making comments like 'crass and adolescent' i dunno about most players but that pretty much describes most GWs i've been a regular at for the past 10 years. Although that maybe because of my presence i don't know.

the term Penal legion is a good example of this, simply yelling out the word penal amongst a group of gamers and seeing hw many respond with legion has provided many minutes of entertainment on vets night.
Couple that with a hobby which has provided us with Orc cheerleaders and ogres in drag with rolling pins i think its a little bit over the top to see so much miniature persecution going on

Manchu wrote:This isn't about censorship, stir as hard as you like.

I apologize...I can see where my tone in the last post could have been construed as being self-righteous. Let me rephrase my point in a much simpler way.

I am not debating the appropriateness of the original image posted here. Nor am I claiming that anything said here is either a free speech issue. I am also not inferring that anyone is trying to censor anyone else.

I was trying to understand the tone of discourse here in terms of what was understood as personal opinion. Frankly, the only reason I posted in this thread at all was because of the amount of heat...I have happily lurked here without reading very much (if any) real controversy about morality, societal values, or extrapolation of this game to RL motivations. I was surprised that this would have generated this much discussion.

So again, I apologize. I am not an "argue for arguments sake" kind of person.

EDIT: Agamemnon2 has a much better take on it than I.

Also, could we have less of the whole "furries are sick perverts and I want nothing to do with them" schtick. We don't go around making snide remarks or crass insults about any other group of people based on their aesthetic or fetishistic inclinations, so I'd've thought that same marginal tolerance should be extended to them as well. Tolerance, mark you. You don't have to like them, just refrain from open insults in the same way we don't engage in Jew jokes or Buddhist-bashing.

The next time the jewish temple down the street puts up a golden calf with six giant human breasts, exposed clitori, a penis larger than its arms, and some sort of weird ball/udder configuration then I'll probably take issue with that too. I didn't say that furries were sick perverts, I said that this artist seems to do little else (also web design) and that this is an extreme example of even the artists work. The fact that it was placed on FurAffinity rather than the artists own site shows that this was meant to be disconnected from the artists regular work, and was meant to be a hypersexualized model piece for the /d/ crowd (otherwise they would have chosen a more legitimate forum for creative expression). I'm not sure how you separate the intention of the artist with the work itself here. Thats like taking a dvd out of the backroom of a blockbuster and calling it a valued work of art that people shouldn't be wary of because you've seperated it from it's intended context and then stapled it to a bulletin board outside the YMCA.

the term Penal legion is a good example of this, simply yelling out the word penal amongst a group of gamers and seeing hw many respond with legion has provided many minutes of entertainment on vets night.

What friends do you hang out with cause none of mine are ever that bad.

Couple that with a hobby which has provided us with Orc cheerleaders and ogres in drag with rolling pins

In fairness that ogre wasnt in drag and she in thoroughly annoyed at you refrencing her as such..plus that model fit my ex ever so well an annoying redhead with a rolling pin BRILLANT

P.S still bored at work but the coffee is excellent at least

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a common belief that Slaanesh itself is a hermaphrodite?

I know this figure is a big shock but seriously, the main reason Slaaneshi units aren't any more sexually graphic now is because the hobby is made to also appeal to a younger audience.

What I will say is that I'm by no means a fan of furries- I can't stand them and wouldn't use this model in a Slaanesh army, but I can see why some people would consider it.

Hmm o_o there are some very complete different opinions on this .

For those offended , i apologize ( but i think i did enough on labeling + censoring for it not to be an issue )

For those that drew inspiration , and saw it as an essence to what Slaanesh daemon could look like purely on artistic point of view , im glad i have posted this . Because thats all i see it as .

If the lack of lobster claw + extra male appendage screams foul to what i think is a sculpt with great potential , then oh well . Thats what conversion is for.