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sebster wrote:But it bothers me to eat beef, so I don’t. It’s just my personal choice, and it doesn’t have to make sense to anyone but me. Everybody else should find whatever diet makes sense to them
This makes sense to me. Far more legitimate to my mind than attempts at moralizing. (And unlike those positions, sebster's is truly non-judgmental of others' dietary practices.)
My mom knew someone who refused to eat lobster because they were "relatives of spiders", which are scary. Sebster's rationale certainly makes more sense than that one!
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
@sebster: I believe I did leave the option of other religions/no religion open. I stated mine. It was an opinion.
And yes, I believe in the human ability for reason. Let's not get into this, I specifically wrote on my last post I'd prefer not to debate OT.
let's all be friends.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/03 03:12:58
Night Watch SM
Kroot Mercenaries W 2 - D 3 - L 1
Manchu wrote: This is simply a self-fulfilling prophecy. Everyone says, "it won't change so why should I bother to try?" and then it doesn't change so people feel validated in their bad behavior.
Orkeosaurus wrote:My mom knew someone who refused to eat lobster because they were "relatives of spiders", which are scary. Sebster's rationale certainly makes more sense than that one!
I think the point is that it doesn't need to make sense. Now if you want her to change the behavior then it's another matter.
I would say it depends on whether you're trying to make a taxonomic statement about the relation between spiders and lobsters, or whether you're merely referring to their aesthetic similarities.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Well, if the only reason she won't eat lobster is due to a factual misunderstanding, she should probably be informed of her mistake.
It might have been all the legs and spindly bits though. Who knows?
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
According to common folklore, most people eat 20 spiders in their sleep, over the course of their lifetimes.
I'm skeptical, though.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
I see your point, O. You are talking about her not eating lobster because she genuinely believes it to be some sort of spider and, additionally, it is not acceptable to eat spiders. What I am talking about it that her not wanting to eat the lobster has no implication on the legitimacy of me eating it. I imagine the following conversation:
Me: Will you have the lobster, my dear? Her: I couldn't, darling, they're related to spiders. Me: Good heavens! Only insofar as you or I are related to sharks. Her: Even so, they look terribly ugly! Me: That's as may be but they are quite tasty. Her: Well, I will pass. Me: Very well, very well.
. . . as opposed to . . .
Me: Will you have the lobster, my dear? Her: How could you!? Oh! Me: Why, whatever has come over you? Her: The lobster is capable of suffering! You're a monster to suggest I or any other compassionate person should eat the poor creature, especially given the barbaric way that it is prepared. Me: Check please! ::to Her:: I think we should see other people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/03 03:46:35
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Jainists would say that anything you could eat suffers. Does that carrot really want to be pulled out of the ground? Of course these are the people that sit under a tree waiting for an apple to drop so as to not cause the tree suffering, and walk carefully on grass for the same reasons.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
As a meat eater I wouldn't go hunting. It's not particularly fair to the creature, nor do I think it would be all that thrilling. That said, I derive basic sustenance from farmed animals and while I can empathize with their plight, that plight is engineered to allow me to live. Thus I can only empathize hypocritically. The idea that not eating meat somehow lessons an animals suffering, or removes one from the cycle of ethical mistreatment is foolish at best. It's a moral stand that I can respect, but not one that I would endorse.
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
Nightwatch wrote:@sebster: I believe I did leave the option of other religions/no religion open. I stated mine. It was an opinion.
And yes, I believe in the human ability for reason. Let's not get into this, I specifically wrote on my last post I'd prefer not to debate OT.
let's all be friends.
Sure thing, I can see how my comment following yours on religion might have sounded confrontational, it wasn't meant to be - was just looking to expand the point.
Elsewhere I wasn't looking to challenge your decision to eat meat, just question some of the reasoning.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahtman wrote:Jainists would say that anything you could eat suffers. Does that carrot really want to be pulled out of the ground? Of course these are the people that sit under a tree waiting for an apple to drop so as to not cause the tree suffering, and walk carefully on grass for the same reasons.
And some wear face masks so they don't accidentally breathe in a bug, and sweep the ground in front of them so they don't accidentally tread on an insect. They're a fascinating lot, but probably a bit far beyond what most of us could aspire to.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:This makes sense to me. Far more legitimate to my mind than attempts at moralizing. (And unlike those positions, sebster's is truly non-judgmental of others' dietary practices.)
Yeah, I don't think there's a moral high ground on the issue - everyone compromises somewhere. And even if there was, what good would acting smug about it do anyway? Ever met anyone who realised the error of their meat eating ways because a vegetarian acted smug about it at a dinner party?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/03 04:57:13
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I haven't read much of the thread past the 1st page as my comment is directed at the OP.
I seriously reduced the amount of meat I eat and over three months of eating a lot of vegetables, about 10-12 servings a day, I have lost approx 10KG, or 22lbs, a stone and a half.
I know from casual observation that you are buddies with some guys on here who are in the military. Ask them for suggestions towards exercise. Bike riding, rowing and running with a low fat, high protein (I still eat eggs, fish and tofu and the occasional chicken breast), high veggie diet will change your body over a few months. It is a lifestyle change for sure, but sticking with it will produce results. Also snacks and crisps and chocolate and any "food" that is made in a factory doesn't help with all the Gak they cram into.
If you drink a lot of wine and beer, indulge only on the weekend. Hope this helps. Good Luck!
I'm a vegetarian for health reasons (personally, I don't care if people eat meat, or that animals are butchered in "horrific" ways-they're bred for eating!)
I don't eat fish or chicken, and I don't have vitamin or protein issues.
Protein can come from beans, rice, cheese, yogurt, milk, other dairy.
Many vegetables have vitamins, but make sure you eat some or all of the above protein sources to get a complete range of vitamins.
As someone who enjoys eating and feeling full and happy afterwards, I've gotta say that starches are awesome. For example: a baked pasta with potatoes, cheese, and broccoli will fill you up, taste hearty and good, and give you a large range of essential nutrients.
My $.02
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/03 06:01:12
Da Boss wrote:No no, Richard Dawkins arresting the Pope is inherently hilarious. It could only be funnier if when it happens, His Holiness exclaims "Rats, it's the Fuzz! Let's cheese it!" and a high speed Popemobile chase ensues.
sebster wrote:Yeah, I don't think there's a moral high ground on the issue - everyone compromises somewhere. And even if there was, what good would acting smug about it do anyway? Ever met anyone who realised the error of their meat eating ways because a vegetarian acted smug about it at a dinner party?
It's worth pointing out that I'm not looking to claim some sort of moral superiority here - neither am I trying to say that everyone should give meat up. It's just something I want to do, for the reasons I set out. Not saying it should apply to anyone else. Hell, I still drink, smoke and take drugs - I'm hardly Gandhi!
@Khornholio - Cheers mate. Yeah, I already walk about 5 Kilometers most days, so I get a fairly decent amount of exercise - but my eating habits aren't great. Since I started walking more and cutting down on things like sugar in my diet I've lost just over a stone, but that's taken a few months. I just want to speed things up a bit and get a little healthier.
I'm a meat eater. It's what me and my system were programmed to do. However, I have morality. That's something my brain was programmed to do. I'd LIKE good health. So that's how I arrange my diet.
In other words, I buy organic and free range. That might be a chicken sitting on my dinner plate, but I'm happy because
a)I know it was a happy chicken
b)I know it hasn't been pumped full of chemicals so it won't harm me
c)It tastes dayum good!
Continuing with the chicken example, I find my happy chickens actually taste better than not-happy chickens. The reason for this is that they haven't been pumped with chemicals throughout their lives, and they weren't injected with half a litre of water after they died to make them look bigger and weigh more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/03 12:44:18
Anshal wrote:WTF! Giving up meat? Oh my that sound like a bad idea. Meat is good, and it helps control the number of pesky animals. So eat meat and stay manly
I am fully prepared to arm-wrestle anyone who questions my manhood.
Anshal wrote:WTF! Giving up meat? Oh my that sound like a bad idea. Meat is good, and it helps control the number of pesky animals. So eat meat and stay manly
I am fully prepared to arm-wrestle anyone who questions my manhood.
Well bring it on then vegi boy! I challenge you to duel by Nerddom!
Nightwatch wrote: I meant that their level of being is lower than that of humans, and do not have a soul in the same context.
How would you explain "level of being"? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but, why do people assume that humans are so much more special than animals?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/03 21:55:24
Please forgive me for my ignorance in this post.
What's the issue with killing animals and eating them,I have no problems with that,when I was younger I loved to watch pigs who were slaughtered because I was interested in looks of their organs and I repeat I have no problems with it.
I enjoy being omnivorous,I would never stop eating meat and I like to eat some fruit or a vegetable after finishing my meat meal.
Meat for the meat god.
Hail to the creeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!baby Ask not the moot a question,for he will give you three answers,all of which will result in a public humiliation.
A great vegetarian cookbook I used when I wasn't eating meat is The New Laurel's Kitchen.
What made it great was it discusses what lacks in a vegetarian diet and how you can maximize your caloric and protein content.
The dishes are pretty tasty too.
I think my favorite was the lentil soup and corn chile.
How would you explain "level of being"? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but, why do people assume that humans are so much more special than animals?
Because the basis of morality itself is that humans are somehow 'inviolable' and that we should not kill, eat, or steal from each other. When you have cases of humans being killed, eaten, or dehumanised to the levels of animals, it causes moral outrage. However, no-one kicks up a stink about animals being killed, eaten, or treated as animals. Why?
Because they're animals. And because we can. And because it's far more difficult to empathise with animals. And because for our entire lilves, we treat people as being more significant than animals. And because that's the way it always has been.
Methinks the OP has never been to Fat Burger, or this post would never have been made.
For people looking to change the world by boycotting... I just dont see it happening. How about advocating the proper treatment of animals rather than just throwing your hands up in the air and effectively abandoning the issue?
I know the OP is stopping for (his/her perceived) health reasons, so that previous comment wasnt necessarily directed at him/her.
W 2 - D 3 - L 1
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