Socialism, and objections to it.

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**pombe**

Frazzled wrote:Texas also has MD Anderson, best cancer and heart center in the world. Ask all the Latin American dictators who fly here.

M. D. Anderson has budget problems of it's own. Much of it's budget was tied to endowments which were invested in stocks. It got so bad after the stock market collapse, that they asked physicians to see more patients and took back all institutional funds for scientific research (which prompted quite a few cancer research labs to shut down).

I should know, I worked there, but had to leave after they took away the funding for my salary.

Hopefully as the stock market recovers, they'll move back into the black, and start funding the research again.

**reds8n**

This one ?

David Grose, 39, a Paris, Texas, welder, had a cancerous growth on his nose but couldn't get treatment without insurance. In desperation last fall, he took a bus 300 miles to one of the country's premier cancer centers in Houston, only to be turned away because he didn't have insurance.

Texas also has 25% of its population without medical insurance. Still number 1 there !

And 25% have no car insurance either.

A 60-day pilot project testing the new TexasSure program, which allows law enforcement personnel via computer to verify coverage status when they stop a motorist, focused on Travis County. During the test which is expected to end soon, Texas Department of Public Safety troopers stopped and ticketed uninsured drivers.

So far, 25.5 percent of 5,012 drivers stopped in Travis County and small portions of nearby Williamson and Hays counties since June 2, did not have auto insurance.

"The numbers show that Texas has an even larger number of uninsured drivers than we had realized," said Mark Hanna, spokesman for the Insurance Council of Texas, in a story Tuesday in the online editions of the Houston Chronicle and the San Antonio Express-News.

The Council has been monitoring the state's new auto insurance verification program.

"Troopers tell us that some areas of the state may have more than half of their drivers uninsured, and that's scary news for everyone else on our roadways," Hanna said.

This spring, the minimum amount of liability insurance Texas drivers are required to have, increased for the first time in 22 years. Hanna said he didn't think the higher requirement was a factor in the lack of coverage because the effect on premiums was "minimal."

During the pilot project, drivers who said they were insured but weren't carrying proof of insurance weren't issued citations if troopers, using the new technology, validated their insurance coverage.

DPS plans to issue a report of its findings when the pilot is completed.

A portion of the vehicle registration fee is paying for a $7 million contract with HDI solutions Inc.

Still, you've got those big roads so that'll work out alright.

**Frazzled**

25% of the population is doesn't speak English either whats your point?

**Albatross**

Fateweaver wrote:Cali doesn't matter except to teen girls who want to know the latest fashions and to crackpots who believe Matt Damon's and Sean Penn's view of the US actually matters.

It has the eighth largest economy in the world, apparently. I'm guessing that's fairly important.

Frazzled wrote:Texas also has MD Anderson, best cancer and heart center in the world. Ask all the Latin American dictators who fly here.

I'm sure that's a great comfort to ordinary working-class people with cancer who live in Alaska or Wisconsin, or somewhere else that's like, a zillion miles away...

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Frazzled wrote:25% of the population is doesn't speak English either whats your point?

**reds8n**

Frazzled wrote:25% of the population is doesn't speak English either whats your point?

Colour me tickled but, upon my honour, neither do you.

What was your point ? People go to Great Ormond Street for treatment as well. Hell, people go to Cuba even, and not just for cigar and cocktails treatment.

**Frazzled**

Go to San Antonio and turn south. Spanish is required at that point, but the telenovellas are to inspired.
Ay Maria!

Sorry, find me someone who went to Cuba for medical care again? I am not sure how this relates, of course I am not sure how these posts are relating to each other at this point.

but who cares, we've discovered something far more important to discuss-telenovellas!

Ay Maria!

**reds8n**

Frazzled wrote:

Sorry, find me someone who went to Cuba for medical care again?

FRom Wiki, but there's loads of other links

Cuba has been a popular medical tourism destination for more than 40 years. Thousands of patients travel to Cuba, particularly from Latin America and Europe, attracted by the "fine reputation of Cuban doctors, the low prices and nearby beaches on which to recuperate."[54] In 2006, Cuba attracted nearly 20,000 health tourists.[55]

Medical treatments included joint replacement, cancer treatment, eye surgery, cosmetic surgery and addictions rehabilitation. Costs are about 60 to 80 percent less than US costs.

Cuba has hospitals for Cuban residents and others that focus on serving foreigners and diplomats. In the 2007 American documentary film, Sicko, which criticizes the US healthcare system, producer Michael Moore leads a group of uninsured American patients to Cuba to obtain more affordable medical treatment. Sicko has greatly increased foreigners' interest in Cuban healthcare. A recent Miami Herald story focused on the high quality of health care that Canadian and American medical tourism patients receive in Cuba.[56]

The Cuban government has developed Cuban medical tourism to generate income for the country. Residents of Canada, the UK and most other countries can travel to Cuba without any difficulty, although a tourist visa is generally required. For Americans, however, because of the US trade policy towards Cuba, travelers must either obtain US government approval, or, more frequently, travel to Cuba from Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas, Jamaica or the Dominican Republic. Cuban immigration authorities do not stamp the passports of US visitors so that Americans can keep their travels a private matter.

We'll ignore the Moore stuff for the sake of your blood pressure.

two of my "aunts" ( you know, those old friends of your mum has kind of thing) who live stateside have gone over for treatment, both had no trouble and were very happy with what they got.

BBC story

Oh, and then there's the whole treating kids with cancer thing

18,000 + of them.

**Orkeosaurus**

United forever
In friendship and labor
Our mighty republics shall ever endure
The great Soviet Union
Will live through the ages
The dream of a people, their fortress secure
Long live our Soviet motherland!
Built by the people's mighty hand!
Long live her people united and free!
Strong in our friendship, tried by fire
Long may our crimson flag inspire
Shining in glory for all men to see!

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:25% of the population is doesn't speak English either whats your point?

And the other 75% speaks it poorly. What's your point?

**Albatross**

JEB wrote:most Americans are far too individualistic to buy into the whole "group" notion...

Still, though...

..which is interesting, depending on how you interpret it.

**Orkeosaurus**

The Mexicans are putting Spanish on our coins now? WHEN WILL IT END?!?

**JEB_Stuart**

Bah, you act like any sizable amount of the population even knows that Latin is on our money, much less know what it means...

**Orkeosaurus**

Oh, so it's "Latin" now? I guess "Mexican" isn't politically correct enough?

**Kilkrazy**

Fateweaver wrote:Socialism might work in countries that have never had any other form of government (you know, you get used to it) but the US was not founded on socialist policies. Yeah if you go line by line there are probably SOME ties to what socialism represents (a fact only because liberals seem to want to bring this country in that direction).

From what I understand (and I'm sure I'll be flamed for not being a UC flunkie and knowing the facts exactly) Socialism revolves around the government controlling more of the aspects of an individuals life than the individual would be entitled to (say where his taxes go, what goods and services he HAS to pay for wether he wants them or not and being told how to run a business (unlike in a capitalist society).

...
...
...

There is no agreed definition of socialism. That is what give the wriggle room which lets right wingers claim it to be oppressive, and so.

No modern country was founded on socialist policies. They introduced them during the 19th and 20th century. I don't think there is any modern socialist country which could be described as genuinely oppressive -- does anyone in the USA really believe that the UK, Norway, Japan etc are fascistic authoritarian regimes?

There is no capitalism without a degree of government control. At the very least, weights and measures and contract law are governed by a different authority to the blind hand of the market. This has been true since the 14th century.

**Orkeosaurus**

North Korea

**ShumaGorath**

Orkeosaurus wrote:North Korea

Yep.

ALL COUNTRIES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST ARE IN SOME WAY SOCIALIST. THE TERM IS DEBASED AND OVERTLY BROAD TO THE POINT OF MEANINGLESSNESS.

**efarrer**

Orkeosaurus wrote:North Korea

Though of course you are aware North Korea's not actually a socialist state.

It's a dictatorship. You know kinda the same way the PDRC is neither a democratic republic.

**Orkeosaurus**

Shuma wrote:ALL COUNTRIES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST ARE IN SOME WAY SOCIALIST. THE TERM IS DEBASED AND OVERTLY BROAD TO THE POINT OF MEANINGLESSNESS.

America isn't socialist. We're a democracy.

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efarrer wrote:Though of course you are aware North Korea's not actually a socialist state.

It's a dictatorship.

**efarrer**

Orkeosaurus wrote:Oh, so it's "Latin" now? I guess "Mexican" isn't politically correct enough?

Please tell me you know what it means. Please?

**Orkeosaurus**

It's the country right below us, duh. Don't you study maps?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Orkeosaurus wrote:
Shuma wrote:ALL COUNTRIES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST ARE IN SOME WAY SOCIALIST. THE TERM IS DEBASED AND OVERTLY BROAD TO THE POINT OF MEANINGLESSNESS.
America isn't socialist. We're a democracy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

efarrer wrote:Though of course you are aware North Korea's not actually a socialist state.

It's a dictatorship.

Dude, you are aware that Socialism isn't an alternative to Democracy, yes?

**efarrer**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Orkeosaurus wrote:
Shuma wrote:ALL COUNTRIES THAT CURRENTLY EXIST ARE IN SOME WAY SOCIALIST. THE TERM IS DEBASED AND OVERTLY BROAD TO THE POINT OF MEANINGLESSNESS.
America isn't socialist. We're a democracy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

efarrer wrote:Though of course you are aware North Korea's not actually a socialist state.

It's a dictatorship.

Dude, you are aware that Socialism isn't an alternative to Democracy, yes?

My money would be on no.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkeosaurus wrote:It's the country right below us, duh. Don't you study maps?

Actually I meant the phrase on the coin. Ignoring the obvious idiocy of the speaking Mexican statement.

**Fateweaver**

The country below us is Texas. Bah. I thought you were edumacated Orkeo.

To Alba, Cali is so far in debt that it needs to write IOU's to to people instead of issuing paychecks. Might have the 8th largest world economy but probably 2nd most broke (behind the whole of the US of A).

**George Spiggott**

Orkeosaurus wrote:Oh, so it's "Latin" now? I guess "Mexican" isn't politically correct enough?

Comedy genius.

**Fateweaver**

Dunno. I've heard the term "mexican restaurant" thrown around but never "latin restaurant".

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

This is the trouble with Orkeo...you can never be sure when he's just taking the piss.

**Albatross**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:This is the trouble with Orkeo...you can never be sure when he's just taking the piss.

I think this is why I like him so much.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Indeed. Almost an honourary Brit, no?

**Albatross**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Indeed. Almost an honourary Brit, no?

LOL, totally. He has that 'I'm not yet sure whether or not I agree with you, so in the mean time I'm just going to mock you for being SO earnest' thing going on.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

That's the spirit!