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Byte wrote:

13 unit types have INT 3 or less. Including most of the shooty 'nids that everybody says is the counter.

Ok lets got through the Int 3 or less 'nids

Biovore-won't be using it anyway

carnifex-has been gone over ad naseum

Hive guard-doesn't need line of sight, gun has equal range to JOTWW, let them come to you and position them so that they can't be sniped all at once

Mycetic spore-really more of a fire platform once it lands anyway. should'nt care if its sniped or not. Better if it is as the SW player is wasting his time on it anyway.

Old One Eye-same as carnifex minus spore pod capabilities

Pyrovore-needs to get in close combat with the runepriest as soon as possible or just stay away from it.

Ripper/Sky-slasher swarms-not survivable anyway. Much like the spore if your opponent is killing these he is not killing other things

Spore mine-made to be a suicide unit in the first place

Tervigon-heres where the problems start. Should be sitting in the middle of several gaunts in the first place. send gaunts into close combat with runepriest and he can't use JOTWW

Tyrannofex-long range fire support. being that it should have a rupture cannon which is an assault weapon that is DOUBLE the range of JOTWW. Should be running around the field (away from rune priests) firing on long range targets.

Venomthropes-should be stationed next to other priority targets so target saturation should save you

Zoanthrope-Shadow in the warp. nuff said

now I am noticing something here. 3 of these units are regarded as useless (Biovore, Old One Eye, Pyrovore), 3 (4?) units don't care if they're sniped (Mycetic spores, Ripper, Sky-slashers,Spore mine), 2 have reliable counter measures (Tyrannofex, Zoanthrope), 2 will be protected by sheer target saturation (Tervigon with its free gaunt broods, Venomthropes), and only 1 has a problem with it (Carnifex).

any questions (some of my tactics may not be the most sound but my points as the end still stand)

Are all those counters assuming the Rune Priest is walking across the field? And if the Venomthrope is next to a "higher priority target" then that just means the Wolf player can get them both at once.

Many people are overlooking the fact that Jaws hits everything in a 2 foot long line. Who cares if there are 20 models in front of that tervigon? Or, better yet, venomthropes (already being priority targets) are next to other priority targets which is like hitting the proverbial jackpot. Or anything else.

Yes, lots of things in the book have a lower chance of being taken out by the power, but you don't have to choose a target. You can choose that tervigon in the distance and snag a dozen targets of opportunity in the way. Heck, the tervigon could pass the test while your hive tyrant and trygon fail the tests along the pathway. With no roll to hit on the RP's part. It's really sick in annihilation games, as passing the line through a mycetic spore produces a free kill point in addition to all the other damage done. All of this, of course, from a fire point on whatever vehicle he has available, which protects him from assaults (which lock down his power), gunfire (because the odds of him dying from the explosion of his vehicle are very low), and post-gunfire assaults (because you're leaving difficult terrain afterward, and Tyranids don't have grenades).


It's more comparable to a 100-point Tyranid that can take out every vehicle in the enemy army within a 3 foot range while also having extra lives if you kill it.

Ok move venomthropes and tervigons under the have problems with it header. now what about the rest of it?

Broken Loose wrote:Many people are overlooking the fact that Jaws hits everything in a 2 foot long line. Who cares if there are 20 models in front of that tervigon? Or, better yet, venomthropes (already being priority targets) are next to other priority targets which is like hitting the proverbial jackpot. Or anything else.

Yes, lots of things in the book have a lower chance of being taken out by the power, but you don't have to choose a target. You can choose that tervigon in the distance and snag a dozen targets of opportunity in the way. Heck, the tervigon could pass the test while your hive tyrant and trygon fail the tests along the pathway. With no roll to hit on the RP's part. It's really sick in annihilation games, as passing the line through a mycetic spore produces a free kill point in addition to all the other damage done. All of this, of course, from a fire point on whatever vehicle he has available, which protects him from assaults (which lock down his power), gunfire (because the odds of him dying from the explosion of his vehicle are very low), and post-gunfire assaults (because you're leaving difficult terrain afterward, and Tyranids don't have grenades).


It's more comparable to a 100-point Tyranid that can take out every vehicle in the enemy army within a 3 foot range while also having extra lives if you kill it.

True, there's allot of comments in this thread from folks that apparently haven't read through the thread and just pitch in 2 cents. Nothing in the game really compares to this. Creative use of the RP pretty much nullifies any counter. Yes, even SoTW(almost worthless).

Byte wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:Many people are overlooking the fact that Jaws hits everything in a 2 foot long line. Who cares if there are 20 models in front of that tervigon? Or, better yet, venomthropes (already being priority targets) are next to other priority targets which is like hitting the proverbial jackpot. Or anything else.

Yes, lots of things in the book have a lower chance of being taken out by the power, but you don't have to choose a target. You can choose that tervigon in the distance and snag a dozen targets of opportunity in the way. Heck, the tervigon could pass the test while your hive tyrant and trygon fail the tests along the pathway. With no roll to hit on the RP's part. It's really sick in annihilation games, as passing the line through a mycetic spore produces a free kill point in addition to all the other damage done. All of this, of course, from a fire point on whatever vehicle he has available, which protects him from assaults (which lock down his power), gunfire (because the odds of him dying from the explosion of his vehicle are very low), and post-gunfire assaults (because you're leaving difficult terrain afterward, and Tyranids don't have grenades).


It's more comparable to a 100-point Tyranid that can take out every vehicle in the enemy army within a 3 foot range while also having extra lives if you kill it.

True, there's allot of comments in this thread from folks that apparently haven't read through the thread and just pitch in 2 cents. Nothing in the game really compares to this. Creative use of the RP pretty much nullifies any counter. Yes, even SoTW(almost worthless).

If you consider SoTW useless then you might as well stop playing tyranids. Forcing a pyker to pass a leadership test on 3D6 with leadership 8? Every time? I'd kill for that ability. You must imagine how JoTWW would work on other armies. IG, ya right. Space Marines, worthless. Eldar, no thanks. It's main target would have to be the tyranids. Now if you are doing a Space Wolves vs Tyranids battle, then that's just unfortunate for you, work around it, dont take any of those stupid-240 point-screw JoTWW ill take it down with plasma fire because it has no invuln save-creatures and if you fail, oh well. Get better at adjusting your army. In a tournament setting, JoTWW is MUCH less poular because for the most part you don't know what you're facing and a good cheap rune priest will only have living lightning for busting transports and maybe storm caller or something else.

jab4962 wrote:

Byte wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:Many people are overlooking the fact that Jaws hits everything in a 2 foot long line. Who cares if there are 20 models in front of that tervigon? Or, better yet, venomthropes (already being priority targets) are next to other priority targets which is like hitting the proverbial jackpot. Or anything else.

Yes, lots of things in the book have a lower chance of being taken out by the power, but you don't have to choose a target. You can choose that tervigon in the distance and snag a dozen targets of opportunity in the way. Heck, the tervigon could pass the test while your hive tyrant and trygon fail the tests along the pathway. With no roll to hit on the RP's part. It's really sick in annihilation games, as passing the line through a mycetic spore produces a free kill point in addition to all the other damage done. All of this, of course, from a fire point on whatever vehicle he has available, which protects him from assaults (which lock down his power), gunfire (because the odds of him dying from the explosion of his vehicle are very low), and post-gunfire assaults (because you're leaving difficult terrain afterward, and Tyranids don't have grenades).


It's more comparable to a 100-point Tyranid that can take out every vehicle in the enemy army within a 3 foot range while also having extra lives if you kill it.

True, there's allot of comments in this thread from folks that apparently haven't read through the thread and just pitch in 2 cents. Nothing in the game really compares to this. Creative use of the RP pretty much nullifies any counter. Yes, even SoTW(almost worthless, against).

If you consider SoTW useless then you might as well stop playing tyranids. Forcing a pyker to pass a leadership test on 3D6 with leadership 8? Every time? I'd kill for that ability. You must imagine how JoTWW would work on other armies. IG, ya right. Space Marines, worthless. Eldar, no thanks. It's main target would have to be the tyranids. Now if you are doing a Space Wolves vs Tyranids battle, then that's just unfortunate for you, work around it, dont take any of those stupid-240 point-screw JoTWW ill take it down with plasma fire because it has no invuln save-creatures and if you fail, oh well. Get better at adjusting your army. In a tournament setting, JoTWW is MUCH less poular because for the most part you don't know what you're facing and a good cheap rune priest will only have living lightning for busting transports and maybe storm caller or something else.

Very good point. However, the core of the conversation is SW vs nids. RP's have a LD of 10. To clarify I agree with you in general about tourney lists and SoTW. I play two particular advanced players that specialize in SW's and they bring the pain pretty efficiently. I've made a decision already to keep the Hive in the fleet when I play them and only use 'nids at tourneys. Kinda sucks, but o well.

Also want to point out. I've been playing GW since 1996 (playing what used to called "outrider tourneys" and other GW sponsored events) or so I think I'm pretty familiar with how to adapt armies and recognize unbalanced conditions. I'm just curious on others pain and opinions on the matter. If you don't play nids or do and don't face SW's its hard to comprehend how absurd this can be. Thanks for your input.

Byte wrote:

jab4962 wrote:

Byte wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:Many people are overlooking the fact that Jaws hits everything in a 2 foot long line. Who cares if there are 20 models in front of that tervigon? Or, better yet, venomthropes (already being priority targets) are next to other priority targets which is like hitting the proverbial jackpot. Or anything else.

Yes, lots of things in the book have a lower chance of being taken out by the power, but you don't have to choose a target. You can choose that tervigon in the distance and snag a dozen targets of opportunity in the way. Heck, the tervigon could pass the test while your hive tyrant and trygon fail the tests along the pathway. With no roll to hit on the RP's part. It's really sick in annihilation games, as passing the line through a mycetic spore produces a free kill point in addition to all the other damage done. All of this, of course, from a fire point on whatever vehicle he has available, which protects him from assaults (which lock down his power), gunfire (because the odds of him dying from the explosion of his vehicle are very low), and post-gunfire assaults (because you're leaving difficult terrain afterward, and Tyranids don't have grenades).


It's more comparable to a 100-point Tyranid that can take out every vehicle in the enemy army within a 3 foot range while also having extra lives if you kill it.

True, there's allot of comments in this thread from folks that apparently haven't read through the thread and just pitch in 2 cents. Nothing in the game really compares to this. Creative use of the RP pretty much nullifies any counter. Yes, even SoTW(almost worthless, against).

If you consider SoTW useless then you might as well stop playing tyranids. Forcing a pyker to pass a leadership test on 3D6 with leadership 8? Every time? I'd kill for that ability. You must imagine how JoTWW would work on other armies. IG, ya right. Space Marines, worthless. Eldar, no thanks. It's main target would have to be the tyranids. Now if you are doing a Space Wolves vs Tyranids battle, then that's just unfortunate for you, work around it, dont take any of those stupid-240 point-screw JoTWW ill take it down with plasma fire because it has no invuln save-creatures and if you fail, oh well. Get better at adjusting your army. In a tournament setting, JoTWW is MUCH less poular because for the most part you don't know what you're facing and a good cheap rune priest will only have living lightning for busting transports and maybe storm caller or something else.

Very good point. However, the core of the conversation is SW vs nids. RP's have a LD of 10. To clarify I agree with you in general about tourney lists and SoTW. I play two particular advanced players that specialize in SW's and they bring the pain pretty efficiently. I've made a decision already to keep the Hive in the fleet when I play them and only use 'nids at tourneys. Kinda sucks, but o well.

Also want to point out. I've been playing GW since 1996 (playing what used to called "outrider tourneys" and other GW sponsored events) or so I think I'm pretty familiar with how to adapt armies and recognize unbalanced conditions. I'm just curious on others pain and opinions on the matter. If you don't play nids or do and don't face SW's its hard to comprehend how absurd this can be. Thanks for your input.

Quite frankly, if you have experience on "how to adapt armies and recognize unbalanced conditions" then you should have no actual problem adjusting to this power. The tyranids have plenty of long range, plenty of horde capability, and plenty of psychic defense.

jab4962 wrote:

Quite frankly, if you have experience on "how to adapt armies and recognize unbalanced conditions" then you should have no actual problem adjusting to this power. The tyranids have plenty of long range, plenty of horde capability, and plenty of psychic defense.

Many arguments have been made about the fact that this power is unique in 40k, in that it ignores basically every mechanic in the game and has an effect far out of proportion to its cost and risk of use. None of these arguments have been intelligently refuted. For this alone JotWW should be considered unbalanced and to have no place in 40k. When you add in the fact that two or three armies at least are immensely vulnerable to it (I would also consider I3 armies like Guard to be vulnerable - 50% chance to have multiple models and special weapons killed in one shot sounds silly to me), I think there's plenty of valid reasons to debate its place in the game.

Furthermore, many arguments have been presented to counter your 'thoughts', such as they are. It's been pointed out that JotWW outranges SotW, thus making that psychic defence problematic at best and ineffective more often than not. It's been pointed out that the Rune Priest(s) will usually have high manoeuvrability, making range less of a defence than some with poor reasoning skills may think. It's been pointed out that screening is similarly useless because it requires no target and hits everything along the line.

Quite frankly, if your only real contribution to the discussion is the standard Dakka motherhood groupthink of 'get better', or 'good players will adapt, unlike you n00b', you can't expect people to take that seriously.

jab4962 wrote:
Quite frankly, if you have experience on "how to adapt armies and recognize unbalanced conditions" then you should have no actual problem adjusting to this power. The tyranids have plenty of long range, plenty of horde capability, and plenty of psychic defense.

I guess your right jab4962, I'm obviously the only 'nids player that has issue with JoTWW. I have adjusted, I don't play 'nids verses RP spam anymore. Yes, its that unbalanced IMO as I was trying to point out. Its literally no fun.

Oh man, I've read through all the posts and I really want to say that what's going on here is definitely not a discussion, it's just a thread in which everyone who thinks that JotWW is "te woarst think eva" yells how game breaking it is, how unbalanced it is, how unfair, that nothing compared to that is so unbalanced etc...
Really people, wake up. All this crying is utterly useless, it won't change the fact that JotWW exists and that "uber-psy" is on the rise.

You need to thing how many things are only affected by a small degree (any MC with at least I4) or not at all (jump infantry, vehicles etc) and that there are powers out there which are even equal in beeing "broken".
Ever heard of the thing they call Lash of Submission? Ever had the situation that two CSM casters move your 30 men ork mob or TH/SS termies 4D6" away, two pinning tests included? Or a whole guardsmen blob right into open ground or any kind of unit, exept vehicles from their objective? Don't tell me that that is not "broken". Yet we need to live with that and the fact that everything has a weak spot.
Instead of crying all the day about how much CSM players suck for playing the strong units of their codex or the fact that the power exists I try to find solutions, meching up for example or using some kind of psy defence.

Ever tried to kill a rune priest in CC? It's damn easy as they don't even have an inv. save, I4, W4 and can be picked. Just pop the priests transport and allocate some attacks on him, mission complete. Another idea would be to use a cheap mobile synapse creature with SotW to hunt down the priest and his transport (in other words: Zoanthropes).

And yes, I'm playing SW and a JotWW rune priest, yet I know that it's not that effective as everyone believes and the codex has quite many drawbacks for that, especially compared to the new BA dex (except the Ironclad, Thunderfire, MotF and the LS Storm they got EVERYTHING vanilla marines got (Sternguard, attack bikes, cheap TH/SS termies) AND a gakload of nice things like Sanguinary Priests, Furioso bots with claws, Lib. dreads, MC heroes, the stormraven, extremly good jump infantry and fast vehicles all around), while we wolves (compared to vanilla marines) only got rune priests, grey hunters and TW cavalry and can't even use decent jump infantry nor bikes (including attack bikes) and need to pay 30 points for a SS (instead of 20) and 315 pts. for a SS/TH termi unit. What makes things even more unfair: our pods and Godhammers only have a 10 men capacity. I would even go that far and claim that everything SW can do, except JotWW, BA can do better. Wanna have a unit that beats the crap out of a GH unit with banner? Just buy a 50 pts. sang. priest so you get FNP! You don't like these TW riders? Just send Mephiston their way, he is even cheaper than 4 well equiped riders. Hey, they even got their own JotWW, which now even affects vehicles. Still I'm not going crazy nor will I open a "BA performance compared to SW- the Discussion" whine thread. I'll try to send these bastards to hell with what I got .

Ragnar Blackmane wrote:everyone who thinks that JotWW is "te woarst think eva"

What are you implying by writing out "the worst thing ever" like you did? Also, the point of this thread isn't whanking about BA. I'm sure there a few threads for that already. This one is about whanking about RPs! hehe.

The whole point is, its darn near a insta win with kill points vs 'nids. But of course its not a guarantee. You play SW, you blast 'nids? You'll know first hand.

Forcing a pyker to pass a leadership test on 3D6 with leadership 8?

It's not that great. First off, it's usually Ld10, as most Psykers have pretty good Ld. As I posted earlier, that reduces it to 50/50, which is what you get from a Runic weapon. Second, it's 12" range. A Runic Weapon is 24" range. There's an increase in the odds of getting Perils (as compared to a Runic Weapon), but this is fairly minor, as the odds are still very, very low.

Basically what SitW amounts to is very common, but generally weak, anti-psyker gear.

It's also pretty much auto included in a list, as opposed to other armies, which require a more deliberate inclusion.

it's just a thread in which everyone who thinks that JotWW is "te woarst think eva" yells how game breaking it is, how unbalanced it is, how unfair, that nothing compared to that is so unbalanced etc...

Funny, to me it looks like a bunch of misrepresentations of what people are saying.

I could repeat again how I don't think it's "unfair" or "game breaking," but I'm pretty sure that if you actually cared what I thought, you'd have read it the first few times I said it.

Phryxis wrote:

Forcing a pyker to pass a leadership test on 3D6 with leadership 8?

It's not that great. First off, it's usually Ld10, as most Psykers have pretty good Ld. As I posted earlier, that reduces it to 50/50, which is what you get from a Runic weapon. Second, it's 12" range. A Runic Weapon is 24" range. There's an increase in the odds of getting Perils (as compared to a Runic Weapon), but this is fairly minor, as the odds are still very, very low.

Basically what SitW amounts to is very common, but generally weak, anti-psyker gear.

It's also pretty much auto included in a list, as opposed to other armies, which require a more deliberate inclusion.

it's just a thread in which everyone who thinks that JotWW is "te woarst think eva" yells how game breaking it is, how unbalanced it is, how unfair, that nothing compared to that is so unbalanced etc...

Funny, to me it looks like a bunch of misrepresentations of what people are saying.

I could repeat again how I don't think it's "unfair" or "game breaking," but I'm pretty sure that if you actually cared what I thought, you'd have read it the first few times I said it.

Agreed, SoTW is a pretty weak defense. Non-nids players tend to think its better than it is. My hive Tyrant wants a Rune weapon or DH hood!

Necrons who are hit by this power fall into the center of the earth. Then they stand up and rejoin their unit.

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:Necrons who are hit by this power fall into the center of the earth. Then they stand up and rejoin their unit.

I wish my bugs would do that!

Phryxis wrote:

Forcing a pyker to pass a leadership test on 3D6 with leadership 8?

It's not that great. First off, it's usually Ld10, as most Psykers have pretty good Ld. As I posted earlier, that reduces it to 50/50, which is what you get from a Runic weapon. Second, it's 12" range. A Runic Weapon is 24" range. There's an increase in the odds of getting Perils (as compared to a Runic Weapon), but this is fairly minor, as the odds are still very, very low.

Basically what SitW amounts to is very common, but generally weak, anti-psyker gear.

It's also pretty much auto included in a list, as opposed to other armies, which require a more deliberate inclusion.

it's just a thread in which everyone who thinks that JotWW is "te woarst think eva" yells how game breaking it is, how unbalanced it is, how unfair, that nothing compared to that is so unbalanced etc...

Funny, to me it looks like a bunch of misrepresentations of what people are saying.

I could repeat again how I don't think it's "unfair" or "game breaking," but I'm pretty sure that if you actually cared what I thought, you'd have read it the first few times I said it.

My apologies on saying the RP is ld 8 a hasty misread.
Let me offer another defensive alternative. Use the death leaper instad, combined with SoTWW. With their leadership reduced to an average of 8, the probability of rolling 8 or less on 3d6 is 25.93%, while any double ones or sixes in there is still PoTW. Not bad odds for the tyranids there. Maybe It's not worth the points, but it's certainly something. Even without the deathleaper, the possibility of passing ld 10 on 3d6 is exactly 50%, as opposed to almost 92% on 2d6. Doesn't seem quite a weak defense to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:Necrons who are hit by this power fall into the center of the earth. Then they stand up and rejoin their unit.

Umm...i don't think they can stand up if removed from play. Not 100% sure though.

Byte wrote:Agreed, I'll be using the deathleaper or brood of lictors soon.

jab,
Agreed, it was brought up before. btw- I think the necron thing was FAQ'd.

Deathleaper can only lower the Ld of a single RP.

Out of a possible 4.

Also, the amount lowered is random, so if you roll a 1 or 2 at the beginning of the game you just screwed yourself.

Deathleaper, while good against, say, Eldrad, is not very good at stopping Jaws spam.

Deathleaper, while good against, say, Eldrad, is not very good at stopping Jaws spam.

You know what works well for jaw spasm,

http://blogs.teamtbb.com/terezamacel/files/2009/11/headgear.jpg " border="0" />

Oh wait, you said Jaws spam... my bad.

Demogerg wrote:

Deathleaper, while good against, say, Eldrad, is not very good at stopping Jaws spam.

You know what works well for jaw spasm,

http://blogs.teamtbb.com/terezamacel/files/2009/11/headgear.jpg " border="0" />

Oh wait, you said Jaws spam... my bad.

Huh?

You can also use thunder hammers to turn high ranking special characters like abandon into Initaitive 1 with thunder hammers then BOOM 2+ and he is removed from play if he got wounded and same goes for any other hig I value model with multple wounds.

I don't think that's how it works. If memory serves they only strike at I1 and are not reduced to I1. So he still has his normal initiative against the jaws.

"3 to hit
2/3
7 to pen
7/12
6 to glance
5/36

4 to wreck on a pen
1/2

6 to wreck on a glance
1/6


so the math works out to be 2/3x(((7/12)x(1/2))+((5/36)x(1/6)))
Total propability works out to just over 1/5th (.209) chance to wreck a land raider from a single BS4 melta shot in double pen range... which can be armed on a 15 point space marine for free.

15 points can wreck a 250 point land raider crusader 1/5th the time in a single turn.

compare this to a 100 point rune priest that can kill a 160 point carnifex or tervigon....
psychic test passes on a 10
11/12

Carnifex fails I test with a +1 bonus
2/3
this works out to a 0.611 chance, lets examine the point cost vs work done here.

(proability to wreck/kill target)x(target value)/(cost of unit used to wreck/kill target)= unit job efficiency

Melta vs Land Raider
(0.209)x(250)/(15)= 3.48

Rune Priest vs Tervigon/Carnifex
(0.611)x(160)/(100)= 0.97

as you can see, its over 3 times more efficient

You could argue that the value of the entire marine squad needs to be taken into consideration, and Ill give you that, so lets look at the cheapest platform that I think of for melta... 3 wolfguard in a drop pod with combimeltas

(0.627)x(250)/(104)= 1.50

So even when the transport/delivery method is taken into consideration, the "humble" meltagun is STILL more efficient at killing land raiders of all varieties than Jaws of the world wolf is at killing its' easiest and most expensive targets, initiative 1 TMCs.




TLDR; its part of the game, everyone has to deal with counters to their best units."

The problem with this is that the landraider is not the threat, the termies or assault unit inside is. So all you did was remove its expensive transport, and that unit is going to by it next turn because they are withing shooting and assault range. Its different with nids as they don't have any kind of transports aside from Spores, all the killy stuff has to walk from the beginning or from the deepstrike/reserve.

IF I played SM and had a land raider shot out in one turn from some deepstrike unit with a 15 point melta, I would be quite upset, whining about how unfair it is, but serves me right for putting all my stock into the LR. If I played a 'nid army and put all my stock in my carnifexes, and they got killed 1 by 1 easily by this one power I would also be quite upset. However if I was a 'nid player and stacked a list with carnifexes, and got a super duper victory against an army other than SW that couldn't deal with all my MCs I would be sitting there patting myself on the back about how great my army is, while my opponent would be whining about how unfair the new 'nid codex is, right? Get my point? Just shut up and EAT IT! (that's what tyranids do anyways)

That is just vindictive, most people aren't really upset that you blew up their landraider, as they then get to stomp that unit and they can still walk whatever was in the landraider across the board. Also, you can protect a Landraider from deepstrikers by surrounding it with rhinos or ground troops so they can't deepstrike within 6 inches of the landraider in the first place. For JotWW it doesn't matter how many guys you put in front to screen your characters of MC, they just get hit as well, and you usually can't assault the Rune Priest afterwards, especially if he has been put between two rhinos.

I don't think that's how it works. If memory serves they only strike at I1 and are not reduced to I1. So he still has his normal initiative against the jaws.

Actually it does, as if he is wounded it reduces his natural int to 1. I seen it happen to, Abbaddon locked in combat with a Termy unit, he was wounded by a thunder hammer. Next turn he was killed by the earthquake.

I find that JotWW is actually really useful against marines or Chaos Marines, most people arn't expecting it so if you have it paired with living lightning it can get rather nasty. It's great for shooting Termy squads in close combat, sure you lose some of your own but they were usually fighiting blood claws or the like anyways, and is really nice for killing hidden fists, or melta guns at 24 inches.

As a Tyranid player who utilizes Tervigons...I have enjoyed Jaws...It allows me to move around the Rune Priest and whatever squad of death he has with him into position of whatever I want to hit him with.

Sure...he will get that Tervigon...but he just ran into my horde to do so...I can sacrifice 1 MC for such an advantage...and It's not like there aren't ways to kill the stupid priest beforehand.

Plus...you can just Deathleaper that idiot.

Jaws isn't all it's cracked up to be.

ductvader wrote:As a Tyranid player who utilizes Tervigons...I have enjoyed Jaws...It allows me to move around the Rune Priest and whatever squad of death he has with him into position of whatever I want to hit him with.

Sure...he will get that Tervigon...but he just ran into my horde to do so...I can sacrifice 1 MC for such an advantage...and It's not like there aren't ways to kill the stupid priest beforehand.

Plus...you can just Deathleaper that idiot.

Jaws isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Well its hard to "move around" a RP that is deep striking, jump packing, RP spam, or zooming around in a Rhino. A static RP... not that big of deal. If jaws doesn't pain you, your opponents don't know how to use it effectively. This is a good thing.

Essentially picking the deep strike zone is a way to "move around" something. The range is a hint that he needs to be close for it to work, if he's within 24" of your tervigon, you should have 23"s of termagants there to eat him on your turn. Or if hes in a vehicle, warp lances and hive guard to expose him.

The only reason I don't really like it is that I feel that it's not that fluffy. Like allot of SM psychic powers they just don't make sense to me. Shouldn't the warp infested CSM be getting all the neato psychic powers? Other then lash, what other psyhic power is as broken/cool as JotWW? What about the eldar?

Of course that could change if/when the eldar gets a new codex. Everyone on a seer council gets Jaws of the Eldar Thing, and it's uh, twin linked or something.