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Terminus wrote:Priest is too easy to single-out and kill before he even gets to swing.

Well, isn't a 40-50 man unit big enough that the IC can be attached at the back - even though he moves to engage first, he won't get into contact. For example, you could trail 2-3 guardsmen behind the unit, with the priest behind them.

As for forming such a blob in the first place, I think only 1 commissar is necessary, the sergeants have enough power weapons to do the job handily. Once you've bought the first commissar for stubborn and rerolling purposes, 45 points for every PW seems like a huge waste.

Also, that's still not cheesy, just good tactics. How about the following vehicle tricks:
Take smoke launchers on one tank in a squadron (IG) - when they're used, half the squadron is obscured, so the whole squadron benefits from the cover save. Useful on short-range vehicles that need a turn to get into action.
Take a farseer in a wave serpent, he can fortune it before it moves flat out, gaining a rerolling cover save - I'd try this on a fire dragon squad to make sure they reach an important target.
Star engines - move up, unload your squad and fire. Then move the wave serpent to block off the nearest and most threatening unit's line of sight.

Again, I don't really see those as cheesy - the smoke launchers thing is gaming the system a bit, but hey, that's how its played.

except your star engines one doesn't work. You can't embark/disembark and use star engines in the same turn (read star engines entry in Eldar codex).

Wehrkind wrote:
And CT Gamer, it isn't being a donkey cave, it is just knowing your way around the rules better than your opponent. In a friendly game it can raise an eyebrow, but in a tournament that is exactly what you are competing over.

personally I never practice or accept the arguement "it's ok to be an a**hole because its a tournament".

I also don't seek out ways to bend/exploit the rules. If you are intentionally doing so you are the kind of person I'd care not to play.

I guess for me toy soldiers isn't the "s3rious buizn3ss 111" that it seems to be for some...

Ail-Shan wrote:except your star engines one doesn't work. You can't embark/disembark and use star engines in the same turn (read star engines entry in Eldar codex).

You're right, good catch.

Makes me glad I've never actually tried that, it was just theory.

Nothing to see here, move along.

CT GAMER wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:
And CT Gamer, it isn't being a donkey cave, it is just knowing your way around the rules better than your opponent. In a friendly game it can raise an eyebrow, but in a tournament that is exactly what you are competing over.

personally I never practice or accept the arguement "it's ok to be an a**hole because its a tournament".

I also don't seek out ways to bend/exploit the rules. If you are intentionally doing so you are the kind of person I'd care not to play.

I guess for me toy soldiers isn't the "s3rious buizn3ss 111" that it seems to be for some...

I am sorry the concept of competition within a rule set is so foreign to you. You are really missing out on an intellectually stimulating part of the game.

And no one said you should be a donkey cave in a tournament, just that when it comes to tournaments you are competing using knowledge of the rules and their effects. The very nature of the process requires knowing how things work better than others. That's why they are called tournaments and not "friendly games", or "Throwing around dice while pushing models around."
Besides, some of the most fun games I have had were at tournaments, and often with the beardiest of cheese monkeys I have met.

Just wanted to point out checkerboard formation works freakin great if used properly, for example killa kan units, work exceptionally well at this tactic. As vehicles they can be up to 4" away and maintain integrity. A will be squad 1, B squad 2, C squad three and - will be an inch in between each

Remember killa kans are 2 inch bases, so each 2x2 square of letters is 1 kan, this will provide a 4+ cover save against almost any possible angle.

AA -- BB-- CC
AA -- BB-- CC
BBAACCAABB
BBAACCAABB
CC
CC

You would move group A first, up however far you want, leaving a perfectly fine opening. The two B units on the left would be perfectly acceptable to move straight up at that point as well, though you would need to lean them a bit to the left to allow the third B out. Then the C's could go straight upo as well, if done properly, A moves its full speed of 6, and B +c lose maybe 3/4" at most while maiting a turn 1+2 (4+) cover save. Of course you could remove all the silliness and just do it this way

A-Squad 1
B-Squad 2
C-Squad three
D-BWGN with mek and force field

AA AA AA
AA AA AA
BB DD CC
BB DD CC
BB DD CC
BB DD CC
BB CC
BB CC --and tadah! 4+ cover save all around

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

But so much fun!
I lvoe it when your army is shorter than the enemy. And when you outnumber him.

Hihihi, you can hardly see the first one now

If you just want to outnumber your enemy and be shorter, go with regular boyz, cut their legs off and mount their feet to their torso - voila, short, comes in large numbers, and can actually fight

you wanna see super grots?

take mad doc grotsnik.

give em all cygrot bodies, voila, 8 points of cheezy 5+ invuln save goodness. look out terminators.

Grey Templar wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Illumini wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

despoiler52 wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Orks: Nobody is afraid of 120 gretchin, especially gunlines.

I beg to differ. Gretchin can kill a squad of TEQs better and faster than a Sternguard squad with combi-meltas. It's amazing how often dumb luck and having 110 more models than your opponent can crop up and excel.

*Picks Gretchin out of teeth.*...what now?

Gretchin are a type of fungus, and poisonous at that. Not to mention your termies had to spend 6 turns killing all those bastards, even if every attack hits and wounds.

Combat resolution will murder soooooo fast. Termies charge, kill lots, then gretchins to gak all, then combat resolution murders the rest. Then they fail leadership test and have to take off more models due to squig hound. A mob of 30 grots will slow cc termis down for a turn and a half. Inflicting mabye one casualties. Tar pit is still viable, but harder with combat res.

I understand that they will die. I understand that they will not be useful. I even understand that there is no point to taking 6 full squads of grots.
I'd just like to say that they cost roughly the same as your 10 man termie squad, and I have more.

On paper the gretchin look good if 200 points of gretchin were to fight TH/SS termies. When the game actually starts the TH/SS termies won't be alone. Assault marines will tear up gretchin in CC, and tactical squads can put out enough fire power to force morale checks on the grots every turn. Bolters wound them on a 2+. The bread and butter units of SM are good grot killers, and it's even worse when fighting Chaos. Ever seen what lash and a couple of Rhinos do when 1 unit of grots is lashed into another unit of grots, or a unit of grots is lashed around a killer kan and a defiler shoots the kan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS if we're going to include a post about cheesey moves why hasn't anybody brought up lash + any template or blast weapon yet

but the ork player is winning since his 120 points of gretchin are tying up 200+ points worth of models.

that while the kans and dreds are ripping up your main battle line.

The problem is that it ties them up, for like mabye two turns, then those 200 points emerge unscathed to wreak further havoc, also it's not like the SM player won't have other units to deal with the kk and dreads. Delaying is useful sometimes, but putting so many models into a situation were the will lose quickly, mabye rethink that,

The termies might come out on top, but if they do, it'll take them more than two turns. However, I agree it's not a smart move, just because it takes up all your troops choices and you could be having a lot more fun with real models.

Lolz, this has to be the biggest quote-quoting I've seen. Look at the tiny text in the centre Fun fun fun to join in with more... lets see, it's not-grots, yes-grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots, not, grots... guess that leaves not for me...

Grots are bad in huge numbers because ork boyz can do what you want those grots to do more efficiently, they will not only tarpit, they actually kill stuff too. 180 grots is ultimate stupidity

But so much fun!
I lvoe it when your army is shorter than the enemy. And when you outnumber him.

Hihihi, you can hardly see the first one now

If you just want to outnumber your enemy and be shorter, go with regular boyz, cut their legs off and mount their feet to their torso - voila, short, comes in large numbers, and can actually fight

you wanna see super grots?

take mad doc grotsnik.

give em all cygrot bodies, voila, 8 points of cheezy 5+ invuln save goodness. look out terminators.

14th!...just had to jump on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And my 333rd post...oh noes...

Ail-Shan wrote:except your star engines one doesn't work. You can't embark/disembark and use star engines in the same turn (read star engines entry in Eldar codex).

It would be nice if you can actually do that

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Just wanted to point out checkerboard formation works freakin great if used properly, for example killa kan units, work exceptionally well at this tactic. As vehicles they can be up to 4" away and maintain integrity. A will be squad 1, B squad 2, C squad three and - will be an inch in between each

Remember killa kans are 2 inch bases, so each 2x2 square of letters is 1 kan, this will provide a 4+ cover save against almost any possible angle.

AA -- BB-- CC
AA -- BB-- CC
BBAACCAABB
BBAACCAABB
CC
CC

You would move group A first, up however far you want, leaving a perfectly fine opening. The two B units on the left would be perfectly acceptable to move straight up at that point as well, though you would need to lean them a bit to the left to allow the third B out. Then the C's could go straight upo as well, if done properly, A moves its full speed of 6, and B +c lose maybe 3/4" at most while maiting a turn 1+2 (4+) cover save. Of course you could remove all the silliness and just do it this way

great, now you have 10" Kan Wall...

tedurur wrote:

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Just wanted to point out checkerboard formation works freakin great if used properly, for example killa kan units, work exceptionally well at this tactic. As vehicles they can be up to 4" away and maintain integrity. A will be squad 1, B squad 2, C squad three and - will be an inch in between each

Remember killa kans are 2 inch bases, so each 2x2 square of letters is 1 kan, this will provide a 4+ cover save against almost any possible angle.

AA -- BB-- CC
AA -- BB-- CC
BBAACCAABB
BBAACCAABB
CC
CC

You would move group A first, up however far you want, leaving a perfectly fine opening. The two B units on the left would be perfectly acceptable to move straight up at that point as well, though you would need to lean them a bit to the left to allow the third B out. Then the C's could go straight upo as well, if done properly, A moves its full speed of 6, and B +c lose maybe 3/4" at most while maiting a turn 1+2 (4+) cover save. Of course you could remove all the silliness and just do it this way

great, now you have 10" Kan Wall...

Might also work with squads of Carnifexes...though I would personally use a squad of gargoyles for that purpose.

Nice stuff here guys

Cheesiest thing I heard of is sticking Baharroth with a Wraithguard unit. Wraithguard are not aspect warriors, so Baharroth can join them and can give them his Skyleap ability, meaning you can then deepstrike with them every other turn!
Expect arguements though...

arguments like the one saying you can't do it? Cause you can't. Exarch/warrior powers (such as sky leap) only affect aspect warriors and autarchs. Also in the Eldar FAQ you are not allowed to sky-leap with an autarch without swooping hawk wings.

Ail-Shan wrote: Exarch/warrior powers (such as sky leap) only affect aspect warriors and autarchs.

Ah - I somehow managed to miss that sneaky line in my codex - fair play. I remove my cheese forthwith...

It could be disgusting if it works
Deep striking wraith guards

Grey Templar wrote:For BAs you can get 5 LRs in a 1750 list with 200 points to spend on HQs(5 min sized assault squads)

For Grey Knights you can run 2 LRs, 2 min sized PAGK squads, 3 units of 10 GK terminators(one is a GKHs retinue). LRs are for PAGKs to sit in on objectives and snipe enemy vehicles.

Orks. 2 big meks, 2 Deffdreds, 9 killa kans, 120 gretchin and 12 runtherds.(need i say more?)

Combine a PBS with the BA psychic power Fear of the darkness

use Vindicare assassins to snipe Nobs out of Boy mobs to totally nerf them.

Run 9 typhoon LS in a space marine list. 18 fast, BS4 missiles and 9 heavy bolters? yes please

BAs can take 3 fast vindicators. move 12" and drop 3 pie plates on a IG blob squad and watch it disappear combine with scouting Baal Predators with inferno cannons for extra

hmmm. I kinda like the land speeder cheese. I'm thinking 3 typhoons w/MM and 2 sqds 3 MM 3 Hflamers with Vulkan. 720pts of fast/deep striking cheese. Of course I would run it at 2500pts.

Taking it at 1000pt will be better

Tony the guardsman wrote:Taking it at 1000pt will be better

It could pulled off with 2 scouts squads and without taken Vulkan as the HQ. Its just allot more cheesy with Vulkan, I guess the tornado launchers could be reduced. You could fit a master of the forge with a conversion beamer, however.

Yeah,scouts and MotF will stay at the back and speeders rush around