How to deal with T10 Steam Tank?

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**em_en_oh_pee**

TheBloodGod wrote:There's also Shadow's spell. Pit of Shades.

Use the small template and only d6 scatter, yet partials hit completely.

It'll probably hit the steamtank at least 80% of the time since it's so big, maybe more often than that.

Take initiative test or die. Steamtank automatically fails with initiative -, falls in pit and explodes.

The Lore of metal final spell might remove an entire steamtank on a roll of 6.

Clearly Pit of Shades (Shadow), Purple Sun (Death), and Lore of Metal are the 3 steamtank-destroyers.

Pit of Shades is in the FAQ as not working, last I checked.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Q. Can the spell Pit of Shades from the Lore of Shadows affect the
Steam Tank? (p51)
A. No."

Yea, page 3 of the FAQ.

**Tri**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
TheBloodGod wrote:There's also Shadow's spell. Pit of Shades.

Use the small template and only d6 scatter, yet partials hit completely.

It'll probably hit the steamtank at least 80% of the time since it's so big, maybe more often than that.

Take initiative test or die. Steamtank automatically fails with initiative -, falls in pit and explodes.

The Lore of metal final spell might remove an entire steamtank on a roll of 6.

Clearly Pit of Shades (Shadow), Purple Sun (Death), and Lore of Metal are the 3 steamtank-destroyers.

Pit of Shades is in the FAQ as not working, last I checked.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Q. Can the spell Pit of Shades from the Lore of Shadows affect the
Steam Tank? (p51)
A. No."

Yea, page 3 of the FAQ.

which is odd since in pink someones added

Steam Tank, Magic phase
Ignore this paragraph.

So it's not really explained why the steam tank is not effected. I assume that one of these is not correct ... since the new pinks in the errata it must be the right one.

**Mahu**

A few points about the Steam Tank.

The Steam Tank is now a Chariot, so unlike Warmachines (which it was), it now fits under the rules for characteristic tests for any model with a combined profile. (I.E. use the highest).

I much prefer the Steam Tank now then when it was Immune to Magic, because you can finally overcome it's glaring weakness that is the steam point system. A level 4 with Life Magic keeps it's wounds down so you can more reliably generate steam.

Don't forget that it can be buffed with magic too. What about the War Alter casting Pha's Protection on it on a 5+?

I have played with it in my Empire list, and I have played without it, and at the end of the day, it is something that I feel is sorely needed in an Empire list. It is an Unbreakable, Terror Causing unit that comes with it's own cannon and can protect the flank of an army that would normally crumble to any decent combat unit.

**ShivanAngel**

Infreak wrote:Wouldn't you test against the drivers INT like a chariot? Or am I completely wrong on that?

yeah you take int test at the drivers initiative.

**Malleus**

The dwellers below does not kill the steam tank. The steam tank automatically passes str tests.

Also, priest healing can't heal a steam tank, as viable targets are limited to "any character or unit champion" within 12"

However, what DOES heal the stank is the lifebloom ability from lore of life. Cast any spell within 12" from the lore of life, heal a wound off the stank.

You don't need to kill a steam tank. You need to take your cheapest unit of ranked infantry and tar pit it forever, then with your newly acquired 200-pt advantage, wipe out the rest of your hapless enemy.

Edit: Unless you have a brass orb, a purple sun of xereus, or Pit of Shades (which I believe they will fix once they realize their oversight). A blade of realities is also a fair bet, if available, since everything auto-hits. A large block of minotaurs with great weapons can also work, or anything that has had Okham's mindrazor cast on it, since any wounds that get through will automatically ignore most or all of its armor save. But mainly, trying to finish the big fella off is a bad bet. Try to tar pit it and move on.

**em_en_oh_pee**

ShivanAngel wrote:
Infreak wrote:Wouldn't you test against the drivers INT like a chariot? Or am I completely wrong on that?

yeah you take int test at the drivers initiative.

Pretty sure it still says it fails all Initiative-based tests.

One thing I hate is when people think that tarpitting the STank will leave the rest of the army vulnerable - has anyone looked at Empire lately? You are staring down massive blocks with tons of war machines still.

I still think the STanks best use is as a psychological weapon, because people put a lot of emphasis on it. That is a boon, I feel.

**citadel97501**

OK, This thread is starting to bug me, mainly due to the weird rules of the Steam Tank. Here are the parts that matter, and the parts of the FAQ that are flat wrong.

Tri, The section in your FAQ about Pit of Doom, was probably corrected by someone, the one from GW's site is wrong, as of the current rules for the Steam Tank.

Steam Tank
-Still auto-hit, since it still has that rule.
-No longer immune to magic.
-Currently can not be healed, all spells and abilities say a number of models, or specify character/champions.
-Trait Tests: Currently it auto-passes a few, and auto-fails a few as well.
-The FAQ is wrong, the Pit of Doom kills it dead. I suggest talking with your opponent about it.

Steam Tank Solutions
-Need some way to wound T10, reliably.
-Need some way to mitigate, or negate a 1+ armor save.
-Initiative Tests are Deadly, to it.
-Heroic Killing Blow! (Sadly is in maybe 2 army books?)

**Lord Solar Plexus**

I'm sorry but saying that the FAQ is wrong is nonsense. The FAQ always has the last word and it unambiguously says the Stank is immune to Pit.

So what is the consensus? Is the Stank a useless piece of junk? Still scary? Decent? I have never used one and it seems I won't need to bother buying one when everyone can neutralize it without breaking a sweat.

**Tri**

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:I'm sorry but saying that the FAQ is wrong is nonsense. The FAQ always has the last word and it unambiguously says the Stank is immune to Pit.

So what is the consensus? Is the Stank a useless piece of junk? Still scary? Decent? I have never used one and it seems I won't need to bother buying one when everyone can neutralize it without breaking a sweat.

Well The FAQ is opinion, the Errata is Fact and the two conflict in the same document; my money is on the Errata being correct.

**Lord Solar Plexus**

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. Errata, Amendments and FAQ are all binding rule changes or clarifications and carry the same weight. The errata do not even refer to the Steam Tank, so they could not possibly contradict anything. The amendments removed the immunity to certain spells and the FAQ installs a special immunity to one single spell. That is a simple exception.

**Alpharius**

There is a school of thought that says "errata" are the only Official Changes to the Rules and FAQs are merely helpful suggestions and hints on how to play certain commonly asked about situations.+

**Tri**

Alpharius wrote:There is a school of thought that says "errata" are the only Official Changes to the Rules and FAQs are merely helpful suggestions and hints on how to play certain commonly asked about situations.+

And my reason for this is here ...

Games Workshop website wrote:...
The Errata have the same level of 'authority' as the main rules, as they effectively modify the published material. They are 'hard' material. It is a good idea to read them and be aware of their existence, but luckily there are very few of them for each book.

The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'...

**Alpharius**

Well, there you go Lord Solar Plexus - what say you... now?!?

**Jackal**

Alpharius, no one likes gloating, unless its them

anyway, i need not worry.

throwers no longer scatter.
Brass orb is thrown as such.
Brass orb wont scatter and auto-kills Stank.
proffit?

Failing that i have a multitude of weapons / units / items that ignore saves or inflict D3/D6 wounds (or both

)

**Alpharius**

I wasn't gloating - I was just wondering what the reaction will be to the "GW Official Stance on FAQs" will be, is all!

**Bronzi_The_BadlandBelcher**

Ogres have...
Seigebreaker+bullgorger
Bone Cruncher
Ogre Conga Line Impact? (3x7) to get some strength 10 impacts, but that is scraping the hell out of the bottom of the barrel

Dwarves:
Cannons
Other war machines

... Good thing theres not any people in my area that play empire...

**Lord Solar Plexus**

Tri wrote:
And my reason for this is here ...

Could you give me a link please? I cannot find this statement on the British or German webpages nor in the British or German Empire PDF's.

Alpharius wrote:Well, there you go Lord Solar Plexus - what say you... now?!?

The same as above - where's the link to that quote and how can an Errata contradict anything if it doesn't even mention it? You did not reply to that question. The Empire FAQ (the whole PDF file is called so) doesn't include that quote and the Empire errata do not mention the Steam Tank. Perhaps you are referring to an older version, as the quote also makes no mention of amendments, while the PDF's are split in three parts.

**Killjoy00**

I don't see the "soft" vs "hard" distinction anywhere in Fantasy materials. It simply says Faq are answers to commonly asked questions. Therefore, they should have essentially the same weight as rules.

**Alpharius**

Killjoy00 wrote:I don't see the "soft" vs "hard" distinction anywhere in Fantasy materials. It simply says Faq are answers to commonly asked questions. Therefore, they should have essentially the same weight as rules.

I really do think this spells it out quite clearly:

Games Workshop website wrote:...
The Errata have the same level of 'authority' as the main rules, as they effectively modify the published material. They are 'hard' material. It is a good idea to read them and be aware of their existence, but luckily there are very few of them for each book.

The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'...

For the record, I agree with you in that most people use GW FAQ's as official rules changes, but the fact that GW themselves went and made the distinction is what causes sticking points...

**Killjoy00**

Where is that language from?

**Tri**

This was for the longest time the entrance text for both fantasy and 40k ... I must admit i hadn't spotted the change made to fantasy. Link 40k

The Shrine of Knowledge

ERRATA & FAQs
Welcome to the Errata & FAQs section of our website. Here you can find the latest Errata & FAQs documents for our current books in the form of downloadable pdf documents.

In this section we cover Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Warhammer 40,000 and The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game. We aim to have one pdf for each book belonging to these systems, including the three main rulebooks and all Warhammer Armies books, Warhammer 40,000 Codexes, and The Lord of the Rings Journey Books and Sourcebooks. If a book is not covered, it is either because we are not aware of any issues with it or we haven't got to it yet.

We aim to publish a first document within the first few months of a book's release. After this initial release, we'll review and update these documents regularly, adding new questions and errata, and correcting any mistakes we might have made when answering some of the questions.

What's the difference between Errata and FAQs?
As it is rather obvious from their name, these documents include two separate elements - the Errata and the FAQs. In case you were wondering, 'Errata' is a posh (Latin!) way to say 'Errors', and 'FAQs' stands for 'Frequently Asked Questions'. It is important to understand the distinction between the two, because they are very different.

The Errata are simply a list of the corrections we plan to make on the next reprint of the book to fix the mistakes that managed to slip into the text (no matter how many times you check a book, there are always some!). These are obviously errors, for example a model that has WS3 in the book's bestiary and WS4 in the book's army list. The Errata would say something like: 'Page 96. Replace WS3 with WS4 in the profile of the so-and-so model'.

The Errata have the same level of 'authority' as the main rules, as they effectively modify the published material. They are 'hard' material. It is a good idea to read them and be aware of their existence, but luckily there are very few of them for each book.

The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'. They are, of course, useful when you play a pick-up game against someone you don't know, or at tournaments (i.e. when you don't have a set of common 'house rules' with the other player). However, if you disagree with some answers and prefer to change them in your games and make your own house rules with your friends, that's fine. In fact we encourage you to shape the game around your needs and your taste. We firmly believe that wargaming is about two (or more!) people creating a gaming experience they are both going to enjoy. In other words, you might prefer to skip the FAQs altogether and instead always apply the good old 'roll a dice' rule whenever you meet a problematic situation.

- Games Development, November 2008

... Should also be noted that this identical to both 'war of the ring' and 'lord of ring' entrance though they were updated April.

Seems GW recently changed the text to include 'Amendments' ... i had hadn't spotted that but it does not contracted the original message ether. Link fantsy

The Shrine of Knowledge

Welcome to the Errata & FAQs section of our website. Here you can find the latest Errata & FAQs documents for our current books in the form of downloadable PDFs.

We aim to have one PDF for each Warhammer book, including the main rulebook and all Warhammer Armies books. If a book is not covered, it is either because we are not aware of any issues with it or we haven't got to it yet.

Although we strive to ensure that our army books are perfect, sometimes mistakes do creep in. In addition, we occasionally print new versions of our rules, that require amendments to be made in older versions of our army books. When such issues arise we feel that it is important to deal with them as promptly as we can, and we therefore produce regular updates for all of our army books.

Each update is split into three sections: Errata, Amendments, and Frequently Asked Questions. The Errata corrects any mistakes in the book, while the Amendments bring the book up to date with the latest version of the rules. The Frequently Asked Questions (or FAQ) section answers commonly asked questions about the rules. Although you can mark corrections directly in your army book, this is by no means necessary – just keep a copy of the update with your army book.

We aim to publish an update within the first few months of a book's release. After this initial release, we'll review and update these documents regularly, adding new questions and errata, and correcting any mistakes we might have made when answering some of the questions.

**Alpharius**

Thanks Tri!

So, there it is!

While most people happily accept FAQs as 'hard and fast rules', GW does not think they are.

Most play them that way, and I certainly do too, for the most part, but you WILL run in to people (He Who Shall Not Be Named) who most certainly will NOT!

**Lord Solar Plexus**

Alpharius wrote:
I really do think this spells it out quite clearly:

What is that, hot air? Are you going to provide a link when you're asked a third time?

Tri wrote:This was for the longest time the entrance text for both fantasy and 40k ...

Well, it isn't any longer. FAQ's, amendments and errata all carry the same weight. There's no distinction in terms of hierarchy.

**Tri**

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
I really do think this spells it out quite clearly:

What is that, hot air? Are you going to provide a link when you're asked a third time?

Tri wrote:This was for the longest time the entrance text for both fantasy and 40k ...

Well, it isn't any longer. FAQ's, amendments and errata all carry the same weight. There's no distinction in terms of hierarchy.

No it's just been removed from that page, all other entrances retain it; It is very likely we'll see another update to the fantasy page if only because the last paragraph "We aim to publish an update within the first few months of a book's release..." will not make sense after the next few months. Also both of the LotR games both were updated in April without any change so It is highly unlikely that GW will change their stance on the hierarchy.

But we are moving massively away from the point in hand, if you feel that this should be discussed further make a thread in 'WHFB General Discussion and Background' and PM me: I'll be more then happy to argue my point in full.

**Killjoy00**

It is not in the Fantasy FAQ, therefore it doesn't apply to Fantasy.

**Tri**

Killjoy00 wrote:It is not in the Fantasy FAQ, therefore it doesn't apply to Fantasy.

Games workshop disagrees

all but fantasy wrote:ERRATA & FAQs
Welcome to the Errata & FAQs section of our website. Here you can find the latest Errata & FAQs documents for our current books in the form of downloadable pdf documents.

In this section we cover Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Warhammer 40,000 and The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game ....

See this section covers Warhammer Fantasy Battles. It's on the GW website and it's how GW play it.

Look, I'm happy to play with an FAQ answer to a question that's got no answer but i will not except an FAQ that does not answer an unknown. Steam tanks have no magic immunity, it is a chariot, so you take an Initiative test against the Engineer. If they want to amend the rules then it has got to be an Errata

**Killjoy00**

You quotation comes from this page:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/articleCategory.jsp?communityArticleCatId=1000018&articleCatId=1000018&catId=cat440134a§ion=

That is because you can then click in to the fantasy section. That page itself does not contain the language.

Nothing in the fantasy section mentions the language you said either.

You might as well try to apply something from the LOTR rules faq. That is ridiculous.

In fantasy, the FAQs are not soft. It is clearly a change. Pit of Shades doesn't affect the steam tank.

**Casper**

Each update is split into three sections: Errata, Amendments, and Frequently Asked Questions. The Errata corrects any mistakes in the book, while the Amendments bring the book up to date with the latest version of the rules. The Frequently Asked Questions (or FAQ) section answers commonly asked questions about the rules. Although you can mark corrections directly in your army book, this is by no means necessary – just keep a copy of the update with your army boo

From : http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440002a&categoryId=500004§ion=&aId=3000006

I personally would lean toward Pit of Shades working because it is pink. Either way, until they update the Errata/FAQ again just talk with your opponent beforehand. Easiest solution in the book.

**Killjoy00**

Right. Nowhere there does it say they aren't as important or "softer." It says they answer commonly asked questions. A commonly asked question is whether the steam tank is affected by the Pit of Shades. The people who made the game answered this question by saying, no.

It doesn't affect the steam tank. It can't be any more clearer.

**TheBloodGod**

Killjoy00 wrote:Right. Nowhere there does it say they aren't as important or "softer." It says they answer commonly asked questions. A commonly asked question is whether the steam tank is affected by the Pit of Shades. The people who made the game answered this question by saying, no.

It doesn't affect the steam tank. It can't be any more clearer.

Except it has specifically said just that. Willfull ignorance is fine though.

That FAQ question about PoS was added when steam tanks weren't affected by spells without strength characteristics.

The pink text shows the new version of the steam tank rules, which clearly removed the immunity steam tanks had to non-strength magic (Pit of Shades)

There's no longer any basis at all to argue that pit of shades doesn't affect a steam tank. It has no rule that says it is immune to pit of shades anymore. Period.

The highlighted pink section shows the specific recent change they made to steamtank magic and it definitely overrides a question that applied to a rule which no longer exists.