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Yeah Ultramarines I have always suspected of having something bad inside them.

As far as the ultras go, I have to admit that my group does tend to pick on them. A LOT. But mostly because of experience. We've played... 5 games? Probably 5. that included the Ultramarines, all different players, we play in the basement of a game store so people drop in and out a lot, and every single time the player suffered from one major problem: we call it the "Ultramehrines are best" syndrome. The players would automatically believe that though they may have fewer marines than the enemy has of whatever, the marines are "good at everything" which means that they can take on any threat no matter the situation. I am frequently paired with these players.

"No, don't worry about it. I'll take care of these orks with my ULTRAMARINES!" the player then assaulted a 30 ork hard boyz mob with a tactical squad of marines, honest to god while shouting "SPACE MARINES!" at the top of his lungs, and then in a single round was slaughtered to a man.

And the sad part is, in that particular situation at least, I had Bjorn the fell handed not 8 inches away, hadn't moved yet, well within assault range. The orks didn't have rokkit launchers, Klaws, anything that could even touch him.

But "the ultramariens are the best at everything."

I know this is a bit of a generalization, but it happens every time. It happens when an opponent simply cannot understand that a group of blood claws with chainswords and bolter pistols can be "better at close combat than Ultramarines!" (direct quote) or that "Ultramarines can't beat Tau? What the ****?" at long range. It seems to be a persistant problem that I believe is due to the Ultras, and the space marines as a whole, being built up unduly in the fluff. That, I believe, is the root of the problem, and it could be easily fixed.

Plus, I still think they look like American football players. Maybe it's just my friend who painted up the "Miami Space Dolphins" chapter. But I can't shake it out of my head.

Lol. don't worry your not the only one. I am SM player but I see every marine as a single unit basically and every marine I lose I try and improve my loses and go in for the kill and try ensure nothing bad happens to the rest of my forces. Spreading out my forces= no no. I keep them together to provide fire support to each other.

I use my Marines tactically and each marine I lose will lower my chances of winning. I have a ton of marines because of this.

In 4th ed. I ran a artificer army.
Where I had 2 veteran squads that had +2 armor and were more powerful than terminators D:.
They would go into assualt against a massive army of necrons, daemons you name it they killed it. 50 attacks from just one SQUAD. I miss 4th ed space marines....

That.... might be the issue. Everyone's used to the super-powerful fourth edition marine, and they think "COOL! I can afford MORE MARINES!" and they don't stop to think "Wait, maybe I should be a bit more careful with these..."

I'll have to investigate this phenomenon more fully.

Manchu wrote:He (Talos, I believe) hocks one into a temple assassin's face and pretty much ruins her day.

Yep. Then again, it's hard to remain cheerful when your face is being eaten off by someone else's spit.

Dear god. I can't believe there are four pages of this stuff.

Ok, I play Ultras. Have played them since 1989. My first attempt to paint marines was to make Crimson Fists. Yep. Know why? They were on the box of thirty you could get for 20$. Plus they were on the cover of Rogue Trader. And they had a cool background story in the book about nearly being wiped out. But then I started reading the Warhammer Siege book. There was a story about "Fort Maccrage" and how the Ultramarines under Lt. Cmdr (yes they used to have that rank) Prometheus held out against the Tyranids but his whole company got wiped out. They even had a map for Fort Maccrage. It had a Zulu feel to the whole story. So went with Ultras. Then they evolved. Maccrage became more of a planet in Ultramar. Prometheus became Invictus and more story lines and Fluff were added. Ever since I have played marines. I like it. I like the marine concept and that's my preference. I also like the hints at a Roman background as well. So go cry in your pillow if you hate the Ultras. I could care less. I've been flying Ultra coulours now for over 20 years and I could care less about the tantrums people take about it. Over the years I've also played Flesh Tearers. Even before the new BA codex. they even had rules for them in an Index Astartes. I liked their background.

Personally I think people's issue is with the 15 year old playing anything. They just happen to play Ultras more because it is the poster child. get over it . You were 15 once as well.
Also the venom (it's a game folks, a game) that some people spew is just as bad as the 15 year old saying Ultras are the best.

And from a fluff point, let's see.

The dark Angels spent most of the Heresy fighting each other. Hmn...
The Raven Guard, Salamanders and Ironhands were crippled in a few hours. Hmn...
The Space Wolves were tricked into attacking the Thousand Sons then distracted during the siege of terra. Hmn...
Only the White Scars, Fists and Blood Angels did any of the fighting on Earth. (And the Blood Angels went into a depression after that one)
The Ultras fought the Word Bearers on Calth and won.

Sounds like some other chapters performed a heck of a lot worse than the Ultras hmn? I would even say some of the Primarchs and legions were a bit naive or failing that incompetent.

And one last thing. Don't take this the wrong way but I know some of you will. If you could live anywhere in the 40K universe given the choice you would be picking Ultramar. And don't give me that "No way man, I'd be a Space Wolf getting drunk and fighting on Death worlds." Actually you wouldn't. Reality check. Look at what you are doing now. Now look at me now back to you. Sadly you aren't me but you could smell like me. In reality you probably be doing the same crap you are now. Only just in the future. And for most of you (myself included) you are not going to be space marines living it rough. In fact most of you wouldn't want that life anyway.

Now everyone in this thread give me your lunch money.

Asherian Command wrote:

ToBeWilly wrote:Why do so many hate on the Ultramarines?

because Marneus Calgar is THE most powerful person in The Imperium of Man. Think about it, he controls the whole Ultima Segmentum. How many chapters are successors to the Ultramarines? And all are implied to work with them. He could, if he wanted to, easily take Terra.

Its everywhere.
That is abosutely Bull as my Chapter rules 8 systems in that area. Along with like 200 other chapters.
No If he went against terra. The Entire imperium would kick his ass.

I know that this is an old posts,but here's something about Terra defences.DLS forgets something when he writes about naval conflict in Sol system,I don't want to be a nitpick.

He [Ragnar] considered their approach. He knew that they had passed countless fleets and fortresses as they had swung in from the ultra-solar jump points. They had passed the armoured moons of Jupiter and the forge world of Mars. They had been subjected to hundreds of challenges and scans and they had been boarded twice. It had been a long drawn out process but it was only to be expected.

The world down there was better protected than any other in human history. There would not be a Second Battle of Earth if the terrible lords of the Imperium could help it. Even now the sky was filled with satellite fortresses; great weapon installations with enough firepower to destroy battle fleets. The whole of sublunar space was crowded with warships.
- Space Wolf: The Second Omnibus, pg. 56

Back to topic.

I think that Ultramarines although they have sometimes terrible fluff are redemable in some aspects(same ones which make them Mary Sues,well mostly).

Crantor wrote:Personally I think people's issue is with the 15 year old playing anything.

To be fair, fifteen year olds are deeply conflicted on the issue of Ultramarines. Many of them are torn because they played them (and tried to paint them) for the last two years before turning fifteen. But now they've turned fifteen, and life is SRSBZNS. It's time to be cool and there's nothing cooler (for fifteen year olds playing 40k) than hating on Ultramarines.

Okay, okay. I'm just joking. In all seriousness, I like you younger gamers out there.










But I like Ultramarines better.

Asherian Command wrote:

GalacticDefender wrote:Alright, seriously. People going on and on about why Ultramarines are stupid and annoying is about ten times more annoying than the Ultramarines themselves. Yeah, they are overused, so frikking what? Get over it.

You didn't read my quote :( Me sad.
Anyway it is annoying when people complain about them. But the people who brag about being Ultramarines really grinds my gears.

Seriously? Who brags about the ultramarines? all the smurf haters made it uncool to like them years ago, this is dead horse beating of the highest caliber.

Its probably been stated already in the thread, but the reason the ultramarines are so vanilla is because they have to so that the other chapters can be "unique". If the ultramarines had a gimmick, lets say they could all breathe fire or fart butterflies or some such, then they would just be one more gimmicky chapter amongst many. Your emo space vampires (Blood Angels) and space furries (Space wolves) wouldn't look so shiny if they weren't standing next to those dull straight laced ultramarines now would they.

that said I personally like the ultras, why?

1. I think their fluff is pretty good, and, with the exception of calgar, not as overblown or fantastical as some of the other legions (im lookin at you SW).

2. The roman theme.

3. They govern the only sensibly run, vaguely habitable section on imperial space known to exist (ultramar)

4. They are resolute, and stoic to a fault but not "omfg completely incorruptible"

5. They seem to be one of the few legions that maintain something resembling real military discipline and aren't comprised entirely of brooding loners who ignore the chain of command whenever it suits them.

Seriously guys the space wolves are the new ultras (jervis even plays them) go hate on them now,ok?

EDIT:

Crantor wrote:
The dark Angels spent most of the Heresy fighting each other. Hmn...
The Raven Guard, Salamanders and Ironhands were crippled in a few hours. Hmn...
The Space Wolves were tricked into attacking the Thousand Sons then distracted during the siege of terra. Hmn...
Only the White Scars, Fists and Blood Angels did any of the fighting on Earth. (And the Blood Angels went into a depression after that one)
The Ultras fought the Word Bearers on Calth and won.

Also this^

Infantryman wrote:Yeah, it's been around for as long as they've been talking about the Marine organs. I -think- it's less that they squirt acid than their saliva being strongly acidic. Might take them a while to damage anything worse than a bolt pistol could do.

M.

I think the acid-saliva is only good for breaking out of prisons, it takes a few hours to work.

Maledictus wrote:Seriously guys the space wolves are the new ultras (jervis even plays them) go hate on them now,ok?

Hey, stop that! I even defended the Ultras, goddamnit, stop shifting the bandwagon of hate onto another chapter I like!

I, too, love the SW. None of the major Chapters (or factions) deserve the kind of visceral, unfounded hatred that nerd culture fosters.

Well, I guess sometimes the major chapters can have things about them that are annoying or badly done, I just don't see the need to out-and-out condemn their fluff for it. I like most of the chapters, myself, even the often-neglected Lamenters.

vodo40k wrote:

Infantryman wrote:Yeah, it's been around for as long as they've been talking about the Marine organs. I -think- it's less that they squirt acid than their saliva being strongly acidic. Might take them a while to damage anything worse than a bolt pistol could do.

M.

I think the acid-saliva is only good for breaking out of prisons, it takes a few hours to work.

Also saves the Iron Snake in duel with Dark Eldar Archon,without he was going to lose(he discarded his helmet before because it was too damaged).

I've played to many games agianst Ultramarine Players all they do is brag about how god-like their chapter is. Ugh.
Hence why I am stripping all the ultramarine symbols from at least 50 marines.
I believe of all the chapters out there. The Lementors, Scythes of the Emperor, Soul Drinkers, The Wanderers, and the Space Wolves have some of the most detailed lore ever. I love these chapters because they fight alot and they try and save humanity.
I like the ultramarines lore I really do! Its just they are the poster boys and I would not want to be assembled into a herd called beginners when I myself have played the hobby since 2000.
That is just my hobby store, as ultramarines are seen as gods at my store and guardsmen.

Asherian Command wrote:I've played to many games agianst Ultramarine Players all they do is brag about how god-like their chapter is. Ugh.
Hence why I am stripping all the ultramarine symbols from at least 50 marines.
I believe of all the chapters out there. The Lementors, Scythes of the Emperor, Soul Drinkers, The Wanderers, and the Space Wolves have some of the most detailed lore ever. I love these chapters because they fight alot and they try and save humanity.
I like the ultramarines lore I really do! Its just they are the poster boys and I would not want to be assembled into a herd called beginners when I myself have played the hobby since 2000.
That is just my hobby store, as ultramarines are seen as gods at my store and guardsmen.

Don't worry, there is a way around it.
What you do, is you pick an Ultramarine company that isn't the Second Company, and paint your minis with the respective shoulder rims of that company, e.g Green for Fourth Company.
Sorted!

The dark Angels spent most of the Heresy fighting each other. Hmn...
The Raven Guard, Salamanders and Ironhands were crippled in a few hours. Hmn...
The Space Wolves were tricked into attacking the Thousand Sons then distracted during the siege of terra. Hmn...
Only the White Scars, Fists and Blood Angels did any of the fighting on Earth. (And the Blood Angels went into a depression after that one)
The Ultras fought the Word Bearers on Calth and won.

Sounds like some other chapters performed a heck of a lot worse than the Ultras hmn? I would even say some of the Primarchs and legions were a bit naive or failing that incompetent.

They also lost metric FrenchConnectionUK-loads fighting nids... a whole company if the current 'dex is accurate

Salamanders live on a volcanic hell and yet still have time to help people on other planets.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I've played to many games agianst Ultramarine Players all they do is brag about how god-like their chapter is. Ugh.
Hence why I am stripping all the ultramarine symbols from at least 50 marines.
I believe of all the chapters out there. The Lementors, Scythes of the Emperor, Soul Drinkers, The Wanderers, and the Space Wolves have some of the most detailed lore ever. I love these chapters because they fight alot and they try and save humanity.
I like the ultramarines lore I really do! Its just they are the poster boys and I would not want to be assembled into a herd called beginners when I myself have played the hobby since 2000.
That is just my hobby store, as ultramarines are seen as gods at my store and guardsmen.

Don't worry, there is a way around it.
What you do, is you pick an Ultramarine company that isn't the Second Company, and paint your minis with the respective shoulder rims of that company, e.g Green for Fourth Company.
Sorted!

Yeah. but I hate ultramarines. I dislike blue...... Hence Why I am so racist towards the blueman group

I was kidding when i said people should start hating the SW, I still find them fairly ridiculous though.

The Ultras came through the heresy in pristine condition because...dun dun dun...they were on the opposite side of the galaxy to where significant fighting was actually taking place...or so i remember it

Phototoxin wrote:

The dark Angels spent most of the Heresy fighting each other. Hmn...
The Raven Guard, Salamanders and Ironhands were crippled in a few hours. Hmn...
The Space Wolves were tricked into attacking the Thousand Sons then distracted during the siege of terra. Hmn...
Only the White Scars, Fists and Blood Angels did any of the fighting on Earth. (And the Blood Angels went into a depression after that one)
The Ultras fought the Word Bearers on Calth and won.

Sounds like some other chapters performed a heck of a lot worse than the Ultras hmn? I would even say some of the Primarchs and legions were a bit naive or failing that incompetent.

They also lost metric FrenchConnectionUK-loads fighting nids... a whole company if the current 'dex is accurate

Salamanders live on a volcanic hell and yet still have time to help people on other planets.

Not only an entire company. Their entire first company. Including a lot of suits of TDA.

Retribution wrote:The Ultras came through the heresy in pristine condition because...dun dun dun...they were on the opposite side of the galaxy to where significant fighting was actually taking place...or so i remember it

Yep, that's right--they were doing the lion's share (quite literally, most likely, the Lion's share) of the work in the Great Crusade. You know, obeying the Emperor of Mankind, beloved by all. And let's not forget that Horus sent the Word Bearers, i.e., the only Legion with comparable numbers to the UM, to hold them up at Calth while the Warmaster headed to Terra. The UM mopped up Lorgar's boys and then made all speed to Terra. It's a very similar story to the Space Wolves' but somehow nobody manages to remember the story right . . .

Manchu wrote:

Retribution wrote:The Ultras came through the heresy in pristine condition because...dun dun dun...they were on the opposite side of the galaxy to where significant fighting was actually taking place...or so i remember it

Yep, that's right--they were doing the lion's share (quite literally, most likely, the Lion's share) of the work in the Great Crusade. You know, obeying the Emperor of Mankind, beloved by all. And let's not forget that Horus sent the Word Bearers, i.e., the only Legion with comparable numbers to the UM, to hold them up at Calth while the Warmaster headed to Terra. The UM mopped up Lorgar's boys and then made all speed to Terra. It's a very similar story to the Space Wolves' but somehow nobody manages to remember the story right . . .

Furthermore, they wouldn't have been able to reach Terra in time even if they wanted to, given how inconsistent the Materium/Warp time difference is.

Just to be clear--they certainly did wish to be at Terra.

Retribution wrote:The Ultras came through the heresy in pristine condition because...dun dun dun...they were on the opposite side of the galaxy to where significant fighting was actually taking place...or so i remember it

Except for, you know, the defence of Ultramar from the Word Bearers, who intended to crush it like a bug.
Just saying, is all.

The Dark Angels were fighting an Alien Race if I remember correctly.
The Ultramarines were busy defending Ultramar against the Word Bearers. And they were also busy.
But I still hate them. And my chapter actually had one of its captains get into a open brawl with cato scarius after what he said about nejis being a useless world.

Asherian Command wrote:The Dark Angels were fighting an Alien Race if I remember correctly.
The Ultramarines were busy defending Ultramar against the Word Bearers. And they were also busy.
But I still hate them. And my chapter actually had one of its captains get into a open brawl with cato scarius after what he said about nejis being a useless world.

Then what happened?

Monster Rain wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:The Dark Angels were fighting an Alien Race if I remember correctly.
The Ultramarines were busy defending Ultramar against the Word Bearers. And they were also busy.
But I still hate them. And my chapter actually had one of its captains get into a open brawl with cato scarius after what he said about nejis being a useless world.

Then what happened?

Cato kicked arse of course and the upstart captain was forced to leave the room on his hands and knees with an Ultramarine crotchguard tied around his head.

I find it funny how everyone complains that Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes to divide power of the most powerful force of mankind in order to prevent a second Heresy, make the space marines a more flexible force and he had the most to loose from it, Ultras divided 23 times or so vs the 5 or less others managed. As for the Heresy: So they were sent across the galaxy by Horus, save their homeworld and arrive late while, Ironhands, Salamanders and Raven Guard got decimated in the drop site massacre, Imperial Fists defended terra and went on a pennance that continued to drain their numbers way down, Leman Russ accidentally helped turn Magnus traitor, White Scars helped defend Terra and hunt down enemies of the Imperium from time to time, Blood Angels whose primarch decided to see how much of a spanking Horus could put on him, and finally the Dark Angels who stole Horus' siege weapons then gave them right back for personal gain. And to top it off, the Ultras had clean up duty after the Heresy, while everyone else rebuilt. Ultra Marines are cops, everyone calls them pigs, but you don't want them gone.

Maledictus wrote:I was kidding when i said people should start hating the SW, I still find them fairly ridiculous though.

Don't do it; keep the faith brother, keep the SW hate alive!