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Avatar 720 wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:Thinking about it, you think Sauron would have posted a guard at the entrance of mount doom...

Also i'm really quite peeved that James Nesbitt is going to be in this, he annoys the gak out of me.

That's what I don't get. How do you stop two hobbits dropping a ring into a volcano? Lock the damn door.

But, that was the point. Sauron couldn't even conceive of the possibility that they would actively want to destroy the Ring. He was working off the assumption that they would use it as a weapon, not sneak it into his lands to destroy it. As such, there was no need to put a guard on a volcano.

Avatar 720 wrote:I also didn't get why the gate was opened to Aragorn + his small-ass army remnants:

Aragorn: "Let the lord of the Black Land come forth! Let justice be done upon him!"
Mouth of Sauron: "... No!"
Aragorn: *sad face*

That also makes sense when you think about it from Sauron's perspective. He has an overwhelming force right there against this small group of soldiers. He's under the assumption that the leader of this group has the Ring and is relying on it to win. But, Sauron knows that Aragorn is relatively new to the Ring's powers and hasn't had time to truly master them. So, he hopes to strike fast and quick, annihilate this small army, and take the Ring for himself.

It makes sense, and would totally have worked had Aragorn actually had the Ring.


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Oh, and I am a bit of a LotR fanboy (was that clear?). But, the Eagles explanation is always a bit of a stretch. I could quote a few explanations, but they make about as much sense as the Kessel Run actually being measured in distance rather than time...

Most pf the forces of Mordor had been emptied out to attack Gondor as -- thanks to a certain Hobbit picking up a Palantir -- Sauron believed that was where the ring was. There were some guards/forced left in Mordor, but they aren't especially well organised and fight amongst themselves.

As for the eagles thing : fellbeasts, especially when ridden by Nazgul eat them for breakfast. And don't forget you have huge flocks of Creban ( sp ?) patrolling over the area looking for anyone carrying the ring, so when they see the eagles one decent volley of arrows and it's game over.

I still hold that a simple lock on the door would've solved all the problems. Maybe even just close the door, as it looked far too heavy for two exhausted hobbits to even budge.

It's an active volcano. Any door you close up there is just gonna get melted at some point anyway. They had to keep rebuilding the path up to the door because it was always getting destroyed.

reds8n wrote: Most pf the forces of Mordor had been emptied out to attack Gondor as -- thanks to a certain Hobbit picking up a Palantir -- Sauron believed that was where the ring was. There were some guards/forced left in Mordor, but they aren't especially well organised and fight amongst themselves.

As for the eagles thing : fellbeasts, especially when ridden by Nazgul eat them for breakfast. And don't forget you have huge flocks of Creban ( sp ?) patrolling over the area looking for anyone carrying the ring, so when they see the eagles one decent volley of arrows and it's game over.

Eagles fly higher than arrows. By the time the graboids or whatever (Oh crap its worms under the ground!) go tell the nazgul about the Eagles, the Eagles have dive bombed the ring (remember the Eagles would be flying faster and higher). Again, game over. Plus, didn't the elven machine shoot one fell beast down with an arrow in FOTR? You have to show where they are tough guys if wussy boy can take one out from across a river.

Grakmar wrote:

But, that was the point. Sauron couldn't even conceive of the possibility that they would actively want to destroy the Ring. He was working off the assumption that they would use it as a weapon, not sneak it into his lands to destroy it. As such, there was no need to put a guard on a volcano.

Almost true, destroying the ring is a valid proposition but Sauron dismissed it because he knew the ring. Anyone in possession of it would be unable to destroy it due to its corrupting nature. Saurons only oversight wasn't the destruction of the ring but regarding the selfless but strong willed nature of hobbits. Only a hobbit could have succeeded in the ring quest, even Gandalf would have succumbed quickly to its temptation, something Gandalf himself knew full well when he refused the ring point blank.
Yes the west would want to destroy the ring, but no it could not be done. The options remaining were to use it, bury it, throw it in the sea or send it to Valinor. The former was a threat depending on who usurped him. Evil would triumph but it is of no value to Sauron if the evil was not himself. The second and third options made it an army fight, option four is the real worry.
The Council of Elrond revealed that the Valar would not get involved, it is not known if Sauron knew this. I think not or he would have struck sooner. Sauron feared one fate other than losing the ring to one capable of wielding it, that was a returnof the War of wrath. If the Valalr and Vanyar marched on Middle Earth as they did against his master Sauron had the sense to sue for peace. To conquer middle earth he would need to avoid such a calamity by acting slowly.

Methinks the Valar refused to get involved either to shelter the ring or mass an army because Eru-Iluvatar himself stayed their hands. Someone, most likely Eru had pre-ordained as the victory at the hands of the shirefolk, Gandalf himself thought Bilbo was guided to the ring by destiny. This is reinforced by Sam's uncharacteristic actions in the battle with Shelob, he was obeying a much greater power and avenging ancient acts of darkness with elven 'curses' and light.

Grakmar wrote:
That also makes sense when you think about it from Sauron's perspective. He has an overwhelming force right there against this small group of soldiers. He's under the assumption that the leader of this group has the Ring and is relying on it to win. But, Sauron knows that Aragorn is relatively new to the Ring's powers and hasn't had time to truly master them. So, he hopes to strike fast and quick, annihilate this small army, and take the Ring for himself.

It makes sense, and would totally have worked had Aragorn actually had the Ring.

What made the battle risky was that if Aragorn fell Gandalf might out of desperate need wield the Ring, and he did have the power to wield it. The hammer blow needed to be swift hence an flanking ambush with the Olog Hai and the presense of all remaining Nazgul.


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Oh, and I am a bit of a LotR fanboy (was that clear?). But, the Eagles explanation is always a bit of a stretch. I could quote a few explanations, but they make about as much sense as the Kessel Run actually being measured in distance rather than time...

Frazzled wrote:
Eagles fly higher than arrows.

But not higher than Fellbeasts.

And certainly not beyond the range of the spells cast by Nazgul riding on Fellbeasts.

By the time the graboids or whatever (Oh crap its worms under the ground!)

+1 kudos for the reference : to clarify I meant the huge massive flocks of evil birds (... *sighs*...) from the 1st film.

go tell the nazgul about the Eagles, the Eagles have dive bombed the ring (remember the Eagles would be flying faster and higher). Again, game over. Plus, didn't the elven machine shoot one fell beast down with an arrow in FOTR? You have to show where they are tough guys if wussy boy can take one out from across a river.

... To the best of my recollection we don't see any Fellbeasts in the Fellowship... I certainly don't recall Legolas -- because you're worth it ! -- shooting one. One gets beheaded by the power of plot device/spending a lot of Might points in ROTK.

reds8n wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Eagles fly higher than arrows.

But not higher than Fellbeasts.

And certainly not beyond the range of the spells cast by Nazgul riding on Fellbeasts.

Where does it say that?

By the time the graboids or whatever (Oh crap its worms under the ground!)

+1 kudos for the reference : to clarify I meant the huge massive flocks of evil birds (... *sighs*...) from the 1st film.

go tell the nazgul about the Eagles, the Eagles have dive bombed the ring (remember the Eagles would be flying faster and higher). Again, game over. Plus, didn't the elven machine shoot one fell beast down with an arrow in FOTR? You have to show where they are tough guys if wussy boy can take one out from across a river.

... To the best of my recollection we don't see any Fellbeasts in the Fellowship... I certainly don't recall Legolas -- because you're worth it ! -- shooting one. One gets beheaded by the power of plot device/spending a lot of Might points in ROTK.

Towards the end. Legolas the elven machine gun spots something along the far bank and takes a shot into the air. Its towards the end but before the Uruk Hai make off with the English countryfolk, er hobbits.


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Facing Saurons gaze while carrying the ring is pretty much fatal. Frodo was nearly done for when Sauron looked in his direction and her was not looking at him just at the region. anything on an eagle would have been stared down, even if you could take it the eagle couldnt. Being reduced to a quivering heap while flying over high mountains and carrying passengers comes under the heading of Bad News.

Where is that in the books again?

Ugh.. I just lost the last scrap of interest I had in this movie. That bloke is gak, have yet to see a single thing with him that isn't boring, plain bad or even annoying.

I am dissapoint.