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And yet you still need to be able to use HI to assault, otherwise the prohibition stays there.

If you have VV unit deepstrike onto the table during the movement phase and they end up within two inches of an IC who normally would be able to assault a unit is the consensus here stating that neither unit can now NOT assault.

I do not see how a an IC that is already on the table and can legally assault will block a unit from being able to launch a legal assault. That to me makes no sense.

If something prevents the IC from assaulting like deepstriking or exiting a non-assault vehicle then I see perfectly how HI would not work. But if he can launch his assault and they can launch an assault it should be allowed.

Good discussion by the way, learning alot from this one.

forkbanger wrote:The IC will be part of the unit once the assault is finished, providing him with protection from shooting.

ICs can only join or leave units in their own movement phase, so having an IC assault the same target as another unit that the IC was not a part of before the assault will not cause the IC to join that unit when the assault is over.

The cadaver of the equine is beyond even the most potent necromanical powers of voodoo priests. I suggest we all move on to another, "Can I shoot with PotMS if I pop Smoke?" thread.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except you do becaue you are making an assault, and you have to see if you can assault - which requires HI to have been used.

^ Edited that for you. You don't keep re-using and re-using HI. The Doom example is quite relevant, even though all the opponents of this keep dismissing it. You use HI once, then the effects apply. The rules aren't being broken when the ability was used.

And, even if you want to argue that you must check the qualifiers for HI, then your logic should follow thus:

1.) I use HI. Has an IC joined the squad? No.
2.) I deep-strike. Has an IC joined the squad? No.
3.) At the end of the movement phase, I join an IC to the squad.
4.) I do not shoot. HI prevents my unit's shooting.
5.) I elect to assault. HI allows my unit to assault. When I used HI, had an IC joined the squad? No.

In your above Doom rebuttal - you, in fact, do not keep using Doom over and over. You keep calling the effects of the Doom power that was used at the beginning of the turn. Every time someone shoots at you, you do not "use" the power. Your farseer doesn't cast the power and you don't check range. Your unit is under effect of the power that was cast at the beginning of the turn. Not one that is used every time they take an armor save. HI works similarly in that the power doesn't get continuously used - the effects get called. When the power was actually "used" - at declaration - there was no IC attached.

Wow I can't believe this one has gone on this long. It's the same thing over and over now with neither side giving any real ground. Silly discussion.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Wow I can't believe this one has gone on this long. It's the same thing over and over now with neither side giving any real ground. Silly discussion.

Not nearly as silly as your incessant declaraton of how cut-and-dry it is and how clearly it is laid out. Obviously it's not, otherwise we wouldn't be having the discussion. If you've got nothing more to add than to simply complain about the length of the thread, please, don't hesitate to show yourself out.

There was some confusion at first in regards to what exactly the OP was asking. If you go back and read the thread you'll see at first it looked like to the OP was asking could an IC attach to the VV during the DS and use HI. I think everyone agrees this is not possible. The OP then said what he meant is what if the IC was already on the table when the VV arrive via DS. The HI rule says that this does not work if the squad is joined by an IC, there is no caveat as to when the IC joins the squad - at anytime before or after HI is declared. It's just that simple so going through the rule looking for a loophole so that an IC can join them and they assault together doesnt work. Thats why I said its a silly discussion. The two units can assault separately though but not together joined as one unit.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:There was some confusion at first in regards to what exactly the OP was asking. If you go back and read the thread you'll see at first it looked like to the OP was asking could an IC attach to the VV during the DS and use HI.

I disagree. What the OP was asking was clear to me.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:I think everyone agrees this is not possible.

Agreed.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:The HI rule says that this does not work if the squad is joined by an IC, there is no caveat as to when the IC joins the squad - at anytime before or after HI is declared.

You're making assumptions that others are disagreeing with. Just because they don't agree with you does not make you right and does not make it a silly discussion. It makes it a discussion, that's all. Obviously, if you have been keeping up with the thread, then you just condensed a lot of arguments into a poorly paraphrased explanation which doesn't include the exact wording of the rule, nor does it include the actual implication about "when" an IC may or may not join. The rule gives a past-tense reference to an IC joining when the rule is used. And the only inkling into when you "use" the rule is when it is declared.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:It's just that simple so going through the rule looking for a loophole so that an IC can join them and they assault together doesnt work.

Don't be so quick to judge. No one said the OP is sitting at home all night scouring the BRB for loopholes. Many questions in YMDC are based on the fact that another player has used it against the OP. Although that may not be the case here, don't lord answers over the people arguing from some moral high ground as if you have a direct line to the game designers.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:The two units can assault separately though but not together joined as one unit.

According to you.

punkow wrote:mmmm... I'm responsible for this madness...
So I would like to say what I will do:
-I'll ask my opponent what he thinks about this rule in friendly games
-I'll avoid to use such a tactic in tournaments
-eventually, ask my opponent, or the tournament organizer to make an "exception" to allow IC to not join the unit allowing them to assault separately in the few cases in which is impossible to keep the units 2" away...(it seems reasonable to me)
I personally think the intention of GD was to avoid deepstriking IC assaulting in the same round, but all the objections made to my initial idea are pretty reasonable...
Thanks for helping guys

Now wait a minute, you dont get off that easily, you caused this mess, now your stuck with it! [j/k]

what you said there really is in the spirit of the game. makes sense to me and even though im in the camp that you are able to do it, what you wrote is probably how im going to handle it in reality.

BTW, i was at a local tourney yesterday and asked about 8 people the same question, given the scenario. Everyone read the rule and unanimously said the assault would work. looks like, on the rare occasion it happens, that my VV wont get screwed for landing to close to an IC that can assault this turn.

total 8 from stinkoman, and another 6 from my end, thatz 14 people.