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ChrisWWII wrote:I would argue that Imperial Guard Storm Troopers come up at least equal to, if not superior to the Sisterhood in terms of training. To be honest, they would likely also have more experience in the field as compared to your average Sister. I like to think of the Sisters of Battle being the 'Second Military' that many nations, especially dictatorships, maintain. They're very reliable as far as political (or religious) loyalty, and can be counted on to serve as such. However, they do not constantly see service in War. From what I can tell, the Sisters primary duty is protecting shrines, and guarding pilgrimage routes, and on occasion waging Wars of Faith. They are not pitched into the front line like Storm Troopers are.

All wars waged by the Imperium of man are wars of faith.

ChrisWWII wrote:I would argue that Imperial Guard Storm Troopers come up at least equal to, if not superior to the Sisterhood in terms of training. To be honest, they would likely also have more experience in the field as compared to your average Sister. I like to think of the Sisters of Battle being the 'Second Military' that many nations, especially dictatorships, maintain. They're very reliable as far as political (or religious) loyalty, and can be counted on to serve as such. However, they do not constantly see service in War. From what I can tell, the Sisters primary duty is protecting shrines, and guarding pilgrimage routes, and on occasion waging Wars of Faith. They are not pitched into the front line like Storm Troopers are.

To quote Dark Heresy for a moment:

"Of course this is a matter for the Ecclesiarchy. Why? Because it involves the Imperium, of course."



Also, Sisters typically live longer than the average person. They're far more likely to receive rejuvenation treatment (especially their leaders, who can get into their third century or potentially later before really retiring). Similarly, the Sisters of Battle are pretty much explicitly stated in C:WH that they practice a form of martial arts training that allows them to exceed human limits and perform miraculous feats upon the field of battle ("[...]which allows them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield which appear miraculous to the unschooled.").

Melissia wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Melissia wrote:It's quite obvious that Sandy Mitchel doesn't like Sisters, considering his consistent verbal abuse of them in the Cain books. It's the most annoying part of the books, almost a bit preachy even.

Cain never has anything good to say about "pious fools" and "Emperor botherers," which makes a lot of sense when you consider that the Ciaphas Cain series is a remake of Flashman in the 40K universe (Flashman says similar things less often, but they're also generally far more obscene than Cain's comments), even mimicking its rhetorical devices and writing style. The only big thematic differences are that Cain, despite his self-deprecation, is written far more positively, and his superiors aren't bumbling idiots.

THat's the thing-- sisters are pious... but not fools. They have the best military training in the Imperium barring the Space Marines (who have better if only because they live far longer and have a biology allowing them to train for longer).

You're sort of missing the point of what I was saying there: the character of Ciaphas Cain is based entirely on that of Harry Flashman (only Cain is portrayed more positively, despite his self-deprecation; he ends up in situations where retreat would be disastrous, and recognizes it, and calls himself a coward for not dying ineffectually in a doomed charge, rather finding a way to kill whatever he's facing (or distract it long enough for Jurgen to blast it apart with a melta); he is more like Flashman in the short stories though, though unfortunately a highly sanitized version), and the books borrow heavily from the writing style of the Flashman Papers, down to the rhetorical device "If I had known what lay ahead, I'd have turned right and gladly faced down [horrible thing he's trying to avoid]". Disparaging overly pious individuals is part of that character, since their beliefs are diametrically opposed to his own pragmatism and self-preservation. In the case of Cain disparaging SoB, ironically, the very traits he denounces as foolish are held by them to be virtues (fanatic devotion to the Imperial creed beyond the reasonable "daemons and xenos are bad, mmkay?" parts, for example, or an overly bold approach to dealing with the enemies of the Imperium without regard for self-preservation).


You're also disregarding organizations like the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, who receive the same degree of military training the SoB do, only without as much religious study, meaning they likely have even more combat training, and are actually sent into combat situations on a regular basis, compared to the garrison work the Sororitas do, or the low-intensity witch hunting the odd squad gets assigned to (and which would also likely include Inquisitorial Stormtroopers in greater numbers, as well).

poontangler wrote:Honestly I do not find the books to be accurate depictions of the WH40k universe.

I glanced at a book that had four space marines holding off a Kabal of Dark Eldar. I avoid the books to be honest.

Well the book to Fire Warrior was actually quite good.

The books are the most realistic, than the movies than the games. Now that 4 SM could only hold them for several minutes before being overrun, after all if they had good ventage point and excellent cover - why not hold infantry units for everal minutes?


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Melissia wrote:You, sir, have been trolled.

That quote and wiki page do not have a source for that information.

Do not have source, have you read it at all? Better yet, why not ask someone from Relic to give you official statement? Dawn of War is not Mass Effect where you have numerous ways to end one story. Relic stated: Kronus was purged by Blood Ravens, Kaurava was conquered by Imperial Guard 252'nd Konservator Regiment, and on Aurelia Apollo Diomedes may died or turned to Chaos in CR. Yet we see him alive and well and defending the sector with Blood Ravens troops - so CR also have canonical ending.
And why is so hard to imagine Imperial Guard beat SoB? or SM? Good tactician with numerous recourses and troops may defeat almost every enemy. Sister are better trained and have better equipment, but the Guard outnumber them greatly. As I recall Stubbs has under his command half of systems forces. + he have access to artillery, heavy tanks and Baneblades. If he use them viselike in advance and build strong defenses after they pass he could easily beat everyone.
After all, Imperial Guard fight for the Emperor as Space Marines and Sisters of Battle. They should fight all together against aliens, mutants and heretics - but then it wont be fair against other factions.

Melissia wrote:To quote Dark Heresy for a moment:

"Of course this is a matter for the Ecclesiarchy. Why? Because it involves the Imperium, of course."


Also, Sisters typically live longer than the average person. They're far more likely to receive rejuvenation treatment (especially their leaders, who can get into their third century or potentially later before really retiring). Similarly, the Sisters of Battle are pretty much explicitly stated in C:WH that they practice a form of martial arts training that allows them to exceed human limits and perform miraculous feats upon the field of battle ("[...]which allows them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield which appear miraculous to the unschooled.").

Hmmm, to me that quote seems like the standard Ecclesiarchy wanting to make itself more important than everyone else. The government of the Imperium is nearly all politics, the kind we got a glimpse into in Eisenhorn. So, the Ecclesiarchy may think that, but it doesn't necessarily make it true. Ah well.

Now that is a good point, something I failed to consider. But somehow I think that the average Sister doesn't live that long? I mean most Marines don't live that long, and it's a rare few who live hundreds upon hundreds of years. I somehow doubt the average Sister lives longer than the average Marine....

ChrisWWII wrote:

Melissia wrote:To quote Dark Heresy for a moment:

"Of course this is a matter for the Ecclesiarchy. Why? Because it involves the Imperium, of course."


Also, Sisters typically live longer than the average person. They're far more likely to receive rejuvenation treatment (especially their leaders, who can get into their third century or potentially later before really retiring). Similarly, the Sisters of Battle are pretty much explicitly stated in C:WH that they practice a form of martial arts training that allows them to exceed human limits and perform miraculous feats upon the field of battle ("[...]which allows them to accomplish feats upon the battlefield which appear miraculous to the unschooled.").

Hmmm, to me that quote seems like the standard Ecclesiarchy wanting to make itself more important than everyone else. The government of the Imperium is nearly all politics, the kind we got a glimpse into in Eisenhorn. So, the Ecclesiarchy may think that, but it doesn't necessarily make it true. Ah well.

Now that is a good point, something I failed to consider. But somehow I think that the average Sister doesn't live that long? I mean most Marines don't live that long, and it's a rare few who live hundreds upon hundreds of years. I somehow doubt the average Sister lives longer than the average Marine....

A Sister is just a human. She lives as long as that, without juvenout (sp?) treatments.

Are all Necrons robots or there is some humanoid parts behind all that metal. I know they where once humanoids, and they where transformed into this robotic creatures. But are they 100% robots or not? And do Necrons fight each other like Orks or Humans? And are they dependable of some power source, like Necrons in Soulstorm?

They're all robot. All Necrons are the 'souls' of the original Necrontyr race that were transferred over to the metal bodies to grant them immortality. I doubt the Necrons fight each other. So far, each tomb world has seemed to do its own thing, and they don't interact with each other.

Brother Coa wrote:Are all Necrons robots or there is some humanoid parts behind all that metal. I know they where once humanoids, and they where transformed into this robotic creatures. But are they 100% robots or not? And do Necrons fight each other like Orks or Humans? And are they dependable of some power source, like Necrons in Soulstorm?

A non-sisters question!

Necrons are not biological creatures since the C'Tan offered immortality in a technological way, I think its like a copy of the personality transferred into the
shell of a necron. The C'TAn are creatures of "energy" bound in a shell. Clearly undestroyable as the living metal only binds them and they could return into
a new shell after beeing "killed". Necrons are a repairable source of warriors. Maybe the reason a necron can be restored is they need just to have a copy
of the data to even recreate a necron from basic materials.

Necrons defend their homes, but they do not actively attack anyone if you don't disturb them. As seen on colonized tomb worlds.
Necrons would obey orders of their respective Necron Lord and/or Ctan and oppose anything they have to, even other necrons/Ctan.
It would depend if there are staked claims of the Ctan in this galaxy, if so these necrons don't have to fight other necrons.

Necron depend on power like any "machine". Necrons were found using Imperial power cores in Dead men walking before they had their own run fully.
Would expect they have extremly efficent power sources.

Though the term "living metal" brings questions as to whether or not they are actually living... or if that's just a misnomer.

ChrisWWII wrote:Because Titans are awesome, but in all seriousness, they believe that the Titan isn't sentient, but just that its machine spirit is very, very powerful. The Imperium is weird like that...it approves of technology that has the machine spirit, which often seems like a form of AI, but does not approve of AI itself. Odd.

And the reasons the Mechanicus doesn't do anymore research is because to the Mechanicus, researching itself can be heresy. Their goal is ro find and recover the technology from the Dark Age, since humanity was at its peak then, and had 'perfect' technology. Devoting time to research instead of trying to find more lost STCs or whatever is viewed as you saying you can build something better than what humanity had in the Dark Age of Technology. And that's heresy.

Jealous hoarders of technology who want to gather all advanced tech to themselves and control what gets used and who and how they get to use it? Sounds like..... The Brotherhood of Steel

So, to defeat Necrons you just need to cut them of their power and then they will be powerless?
And why Imperial Navy don't execute nuclear bombing on a worlds lost to Necrons? Like Damnos?

Exterminatus is the common solution for necron held worlds, if the tools are available.
I doubt the IoM would take chances with a awakened Tomb World. There is no such thing as too much dakka applied...

Correct, if you destroy the tomb, the Necrons can't be rebuilt and the problem is solved. At least for that world. The problem is destroying the tomb, and the Imperium does indeed Exterminatus any tomb planets that become active. Usually they even use cyclonic torpedoes on the planets, because they don't need to just kill all life on the planet, they need to shatter the planet into a quadrillion tiny pieces, so that nothing remains.

Of course, the Imperium doesn't like using Exterminatus for all their problems but they're often getting forced to.

What is the level of technology on most Imperial worlds? When I read some book or play DoW, I get the felling that most civilized worlds are like 20th century Earth. But I know that there are worlds where people are without any technology, and there are Hive-Worlds with advanced technology everywhere...

Most Imperial worlds are at the same level of technology as the general Imperium. The worlds that either have advanced technology (like the forge worlds) and the worlds that have crap technology (like the feral worlds) are the exception rather than the rule. If you think about it, it does make sense. If the Imperium takes over a world with 21st century technology, they want more productivity out of said world. As a result, they import whatever technology they need to make the world more productive, creating a pretty standardized tech level across the Imperium.