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Howard A Treesong wrote:

moonshine wrote:If you work out the cost of each figure in a box of plastic figure it's not that bad. Ork boyz are £1.36 and there are lots of options in that box marines £2.25 each. imo that doesn't sound too bad.

Compared to what though? I think £2.25 for a single plastic figure is quite a bit actually, especially in light of other manufacturers and historical pricing. But then again I've seen the price on these plastics more than double in ten years. Ten years might seem a long time but the only other thing I can think of that has doubled in that time is petrol. Imperial Guard figures have increased so much that they've halved the contents of the box to keep them under £20. Catachans were 20 for £10 or £12 when they first came out, now they are 10 for £15.

I've never understood the constant need to compare GW's prices to historical pricing structures.

Historical prices are a terrible yardstick for this. The historical market is oversaturated with companies making the same items. If I were to look for 28mm Agincourt models, I could probably find 10+ manufacturers. Some eras, true enough, are underrepresented, but for the main case...there's a ton of companies competing for the same customer base. Ultimately, you'll have people either buying the cheapest, the most accessible, or the ones that they feel look the best.

If you want to compare GW's prices to anyone, I'd suggest Privateer Press, Infinity, etc. Companies that produce their models in house and the models are distinctly "theirs", in terms of imagery and design styles.

There is much truth in that.

GW price high because they are the only company supplying Warhammer models.

You can play Warhammer/40K with other companies' models if you want, but most people want to use the official models, partly because the "heroic" scale makes them incompatible with other ranges. Thus, GW are in some sense a monopoly supplier, and can set prices accordingly.

My point is more about optimising the use of plastic, and the availability of models people want, and reducing waste.

Considering how much stuff you have to order on line nowadays even if you go to the GW shop, I don't think stocking multiple sprues in store should be a major issue. The main issue would be the amount of redesign of sprues and moulds needed.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

moonshine wrote:If you work out the cost of each figure in a box of plastic figure it's not that bad. Ork boyz are £1.36 and there are lots of options in that box marines £2.25 each. imo that doesn't sound too bad.

Compared to what though? I think £2.25 for a single plastic figure is quite a bit actually, especially in light of other manufacturers and historical pricing. But then again I've seen the price on these plastics more than double in ten years. Ten years might seem a long time but the only other thing I can think of that has doubled in that time is petrol. Imperial Guard figures have increased so much that they've halved the contents of the box to keep them under £20. Catachans were 20 for £10 or £12 when they first came out, now they are 10 for £15.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're fairly young or not been in the hobby long enough to see the full scope of the way they have changed over the years.

The cost of things has changed dramaticly, Back in the 1940's 12 shilings was quite alot of money and in 1910 farmers would only make a few pound a year, in the 1960's 200 pound a year was decent (i think it was 1960's, it might have been the 50's or 40's) the point is over time the cost of things rises dramaticaly

GW is an amazing model company out of their depth trying to make games. No other problems with them, but that's a pretty big one.

Kanluwen wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

moonshine wrote:If you work out the cost of each figure in a box of plastic figure it's not that bad. Ork boyz are £1.36 and there are lots of options in that box marines £2.25 each. imo that doesn't sound too bad.

Compared to what though? I think £2.25 for a single plastic figure is quite a bit actually, especially in light of other manufacturers and historical pricing. But then again I've seen the price on these plastics more than double in ten years. Ten years might seem a long time but the only other thing I can think of that has doubled in that time is petrol. Imperial Guard figures have increased so much that they've halved the contents of the box to keep them under £20. Catachans were 20 for £10 or £12 when they first came out, now they are 10 for £15.

I've never understood the constant need to compare GW's prices to historical pricing structures.

I wasn't very clear in that post. I meant historical as in their pricing strategy history rather than comparing to the prices on historical miniature firms. I get that argument, in fact while I didn't mention it that is somewhat the driver behind GW prices, they use their ownership of unique things like Space Marines and their overall marketplace dominance to price gouge, for what's it's worth. That is to be expected, where you have a monopoly on something, which is what you have on your own IP, then you control all the supply to meet the demand. I just happen to think GW take the p---.

Obviously you can use other miniatures, but GW also try to create a negative environment adverse to using other manufacturer's miniatures with their games. Indeed, they often like to pretend that other manufacturers don't even exist from my experience.

moonshine wrote:The cost of things has changed dramaticly, Back in the 1940's 12 shilings was quite alot of money and in 1910 farmers would only make a few pound a year, in the 1960's 200 pound a year was decent (i think it was 1960's, it might have been the 50's or 40's) the point is over time the cost of things rises dramaticaly

I think the point *you* are missing is that things can rise in price both in relative or real terms. Obviously models will go up in price with inflation and materials costs. But GW raise prices far above inflation or other measures, meaning that their models are far more expensive in real terms than they have been. IG plastics have doubled in price, there's no way that £1.50 today is worth the same as 50p barely ten years ago but that's how much Catachans have increased by. To ignore this obvious point is somewhat disingenuous given your defence of GW.

moonshine wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

moonshine wrote:If you work out the cost of each figure in a box of plastic figure it's not that bad. Ork boyz are £1.36 and there are lots of options in that box marines £2.25 each. imo that doesn't sound too bad.

Compared to what though? I think £2.25 for a single plastic figure is quite a bit actually, especially in light of other manufacturers and historical pricing. But then again I've seen the price on these plastics more than double in ten years. Ten years might seem a long time but the only other thing I can think of that has doubled in that time is petrol. Imperial Guard figures have increased so much that they've halved the contents of the box to keep them under £20. Catachans were 20 for £10 or £12 when they first came out, now they are 10 for £15.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're fairly young or not been in the hobby long enough to see the full scope of the way they have changed over the years.

The cost of things has changed dramaticly, Back in the 1940's 12 shilings was quite alot of money and in 1910 farmers would only make a few pound a year, in the 1960's 200 pound a year was decent (i think it was 1960's, it might have been the 50's or 40's) the point is over time the cost of things rises dramaticaly

LOL Your generalization is way off the mark. We're not talking about decades here, these price increases are in response to self inflicted wounds... in the space of a couple of months.

The point being that you are paying almost 20 bucks for 10 guys when the price was almost 20 bucks for 20 guys, heck, almost 1 year ago.

Seriously, dude, prices don't change that much in the real world, except with GW and thier magical bogus excuse wheel of increasing price fixing. I've watched as they even rose within months of each other, yet the product quality, quantity, and production costs shrunk. What Treesong's speaking about is the absolute truth in the matter And to add to his point, the prices in all of the products have risen to the point where people are well past the point of throwing the BS flag.

of course we still buy them, but do we buy them in as much quantity as we did? Heck no.

Along with the spastic power plays behind the scenes, such as when they shafted almost half of thier staff, and we get the offense that is now called WD, they do themselves the disservice here. And add another fact that we are talking about PLASTICS, as opposed to METALS, you probibly wouldn't believe me when I tell you that a Metal Dred, vehicle, or even figures actually were CHEAPER, then the plastics of now.

This was along with GW's famous tagline that they were increasing the price to pay for the mould injection equipment that they claimed that they were improving....

AND... The excuse that the company needed to "Streamline" THE PRICING, and FINALLY, the excuse of the VAT.

Excuses are just that, excuses, because at the end of the day, GW is still making a product for pennies ( or pence), and selling it for dollars (or pounds).

Of course, it's only instant profit when you throw in a couple of more store closings, to seal the deal. Wait till you see thier next crazy scheme when these one and two guy shops start falling on thier swords, Store closings, on a smaller scale, where we don't have to worry about letting five or ten dudes go, but chopping off heads only one or two at a time. LMAO!!!! most chain stores don't even think to add failure into the marketing scheme, GW has taken it and used it as a SALES tool. If it wasn't real, and meant feeding someons family, or paying someons bills, it would be craptasticly hilarious

And do you want to talk about Terminators?!?! Metal price 50 bucks for 5, Plastic price for 5, now 50 bucks. Hardly the great depression, is it?

The point that you actually want to defend that absolutly amazes me, and honestly when you continue with it, it doesn't suprise me that the company is closing stores just to make a profit and suing everyone with excuses from everything from the change in the weather, to my cat dying to increase the price. The conversation just gives one pause to actually think about thier F-ups, and how they are almost to the point of criminal in some of thier practices in the name of profit.

It isn't right, no matter how you want to sophise it.

moonshine wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

moonshine wrote:If you work out the cost of each figure in a box of plastic figure it's not that bad. Ork boyz are £1.36 and there are lots of options in that box marines £2.25 each. imo that doesn't sound too bad.

Compared to what though? I think £2.25 for a single plastic figure is quite a bit actually, especially in light of other manufacturers and historical pricing. But then again I've seen the price on these plastics more than double in ten years. Ten years might seem a long time but the only other thing I can think of that has doubled in that time is petrol. Imperial Guard figures have increased so much that they've halved the contents of the box to keep them under £20. Catachans were 20 for £10 or £12 when they first came out, now they are 10 for £15.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're fairly young or not been in the hobby long enough to see the full scope of the way they have changed over the years.

The cost of things has changed dramaticly, Back in the 1940's 12 shilings was quite alot of money and in 1910 farmers would only make a few pound a year, in the 1960's 200 pound a year was decent (i think it was 1960's, it might have been the 50's or 40's) the point is over time the cost of things rises dramaticaly

Just to add to this - quoting cost of living and wage examples from the 40's, 50's and 60's is a complete waste of time and adds nothing to the debate since the UK underwent decimalisation in 1971. You might as well be talking about a different currency altogether...

Grot 6: the cost of an injection mould is very high, the chaepest will go for £4,000 but a good quality mould can go for much higher, now they need to buy a diffrent mould for every kit they make and will need to buy a new one every time one brakes down, plastic isn't the chaepest material either, so each model costs a fair bit to make, packadge and ship out.

Well, I voted "no". I don't hate GW though. I like the Eldar and paint them from time to time but thats about it. I don't play (yet) 40k and Im in no hurry. Im always hearing how bad the actual game is anyway.

Love or hate GW. They have serious issues with keeping things up to date. After 20+ years they should know what they're doing. The fan base obviously thinks they dont.

Don't confused 40k's popularity with quality. The models are typically excellent, the fluff is decent for the most part, but the actual game is unimpressive and simplistic.

I like the game. I personally don't think I'd care for Warmachine based off of descriptions, but if you think you can convince me, please try.

I marked no but that doesn't mean that I actively dislike GW. They're a business selling a product and I'm a consumer who at one point was interested in buying it. My opinion might turn to active dislike if I was an FLGS owner.

The major themes of what people like about GW and also what people don't like about GW have already been hit in this thread. I will add the fact that GW maintains ridiculously tightfisted restrictions regarding retailers and online sales is one thing that I haven't seen brought up that particularly irks me.

As for me personally, GW has priced me out of their niche of the hobby. I've been playing since 2nd edition and while I won't bore anyone with the details, the increases in prices have reached a point that is more than I can stomach. They've reached a price point where I can't justify buying their stuff anymore, which is fine by me, I don't begrudge GW trying to make a buck. If other people want to continue to buy their stuff, I say good for both GW and the consumer.

Someone upthread mentioned that the cost of a movie and snacks is ridiculous for the amount of leisure time that you get from it. I agree wholeheartedly but when examining opportunity cost you're supposed to look at your next best opportunity, not your worst one. For me, the next best opportunity happened to be video games and historical wargaming, two modes of entertainment that have happened to be both much cheaper and provide just as much entertainment (in both quantity and quality) that GW's products did for me. If you think 40k is the bee's knees and it's honestly the best place you can park your recreational dollars then by all means, continue to play it and enjoy it!

Personally I can't wait for PP or another company to actually start to threaten GW's market share in a significant way, they might actually lower prices to the point where I'd consider jumping back into the hobby again!

I like gw it's just they like my money more