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Even if the Emperor survives for another thousand years, by then i expect plenty of necs and nids to be in the milky way and the borders of the IoM to be pushed back drastically due to the sheer numbers of these 2 races. I think the Necrons would get in the way of the Nids, with the nids being all sentient and fleshy and good for target practice and the necs wanting to scour all life. The Necs would slow the nids down and annihilate most of the IoM before the nids have their turn.

Only race that would not try to destroy the IoM outright are the Tau, i'm sure they accept any stragglers or soldiers that are willing to embrace the greater good. They need all the extra manpower they can get if they are going to fend of necs, nids, orks and a variety of other enemies afterall.

Whether the Emprah dies or lives or another related miracle happens, the IoM, IMO is on a downward spiral that would result in its fragmentation.

What's with the idea that the Tyranids are such a great threat to the Imperium? The further they push into the Imperium the more likely they are to run into other xenos, and more importantly, Orks and Necrons which seem especially capable of defeating (or in the case of the Orks, at least stalemating them). Sure, they're a threat, but the big one? I don't buy it, not least because if they exhaust their forces then they've lost. The other factions can recover losses (men and material) whereas the Tyranids can't unless they take the planet.

By the way, the Necrons don't want to exterminate all life (well, some might, but not all). They exist to further the goals of the C'tan (i.e. feeding on the living races), which involves farming the living rather than exterminating them.

Personally, I think it's likely that the Imperium will endure. The more ground it loses, the smaller the border it has to defend, the shorter its supply lines, the closer to the Astronomicon the outlying parts are and the more likely it is that its enemies will run into and fight each other. Tyranids will get bogged down, the Necrons don't seem to truly want to destroy the Imperium (at least not yet) and the Orks will likely hit into non-Imperial factions. In my opinion the greatest threat comes from the Chaos factions. If a Black Crusade breaks out of the Cadian system, Abaddon could possibly rally even more forces to his banner to tear the Imperium apart (alternatively, his forces could fracture rather than stay focussed).

All it would take to put the Imperium back on top is a reorganization of the Mechanicum's command structure.

Hey SomeRandomEvilGuy - Thanks for your input regarding the Necrons.

You mentioned something about giving up ground to help tighten up supply lines and strengthen defences. While I agree with this stance, I believe the High Lords of Terra would believe such a suggestion as...unforgivable. Even if such a plan was conceived - Where in the galaxy would you start withdrawing your forces?

Well I will tell you - Under the intuitive guidance of the Imperial navigators, most ships are able to traverse distances of tens of thousands of light years in a single jump. Perceived journey time is 1-4 days per thousand light years, equivalent to 1-6 months of real time. Even so, a journey from one edge of the galaxy to the other would take between 85 and 510 months of real time. For these reasons, many of the 1 million-or-so worlds, in the Imperium remain are self-governing. The total Range of the Astronomican (without warp storm interference) is around 50 thousand light years, with Earth around approximately 30 thousand light years from the centre of the Galactic west, which means that the Astronomican does not cover the eastern fringe of the galaxy at all. The Empire has even lost contact with old conquered imperial worlds for generations...

As mentioned in an earlier post of mine, by trying to control such a vast empire, the administrative and logistical demands currently posed on the Administratum would in reality have to limit the number of combat troops put in the field. The billions-strong manpower "pipeline" would be an "invisible horde of people going here and there but seemingly never arriving" because of the vast distances etc.

So this means your probably looking at less than a quarter of the total imperial army force (and much much less for Astartes legions) engaged at any one time against the enemy. Because of this; our forces that are engaged in the fighting against your Orks, Chaos and other horrible bests, are suffering probably 80 percent casualties. A prime example of this damaging concept is the Ultramarines fighting against the Hive fleet Behemoth and losing an entire company.

With the math explained, it might be logical to abandon some of the sectors of the Eastern fringe.

Over a closer defendable area, the IoM could make more effective manpower and hold in check, any number of assaults (even combined) by Chaos, along with Necs, nids and Orks

I realise the empire cant be everywhere at once - but that is the problem isn’t it? The empire, even with the immortal emperor still alive or dead is likely to see the Empire fragemented like Conservationist suggested earlier.

Cobourn wrote:
You mentioned something about giving up ground to help tighten up supply lines and strengthen defences. While I agree with this stance, I believe the High Lords of Terra would believe such a suggestion as...unforgivable. Even if such a plan was conceived - Where in the galaxy would you start withdrawing your forces?

I'm not saying that they would willingly do so. But if, say, more Hive Fleets come (much though I dislike the Tyranids in many ways. Seriously, as the 'ultimate' threat that many take them to be they're remarkably boring and unorignal. Chaos, at least, has personality and class.) and devour a few worlds, and the Orks go on a few 'Waaaghs!', myriad minor races such as the Tau expand, Chaos gains ground and so on and so forth, then the borders of the Imperium could be significantly pushed back. In such circumstances, exponentially more men could be used to defend the shrinking borders due to less strain on the supply chains. Willingly chosen or not, there would be benefit from such a tactic (especially if the number of Space Marine Chapters stays the same and are allocating new homeworlds or rebuilt (or new ones Founded), since somehow they seem to be a major power in the Imperium).

With the math explained, it might be logical to abandon some of the sectors of the Eastern fringe.

I can see that (although Ultramar, for instance, is supposed to be prosperous - such sectors may give more to the Imperium than they are a drain on its logistics).

Over a closer defendable area, the IoM could make more effective manpower and hold in check, any number of assaults (even combined) by Chaos, along with Necs, nids and Orks

Not combined, but I see your point.

I realise the empire cant be everywhere at once - but that is the problem isn’t it? The empire, even with the immortal emperor still alive or dead is likely to see the Empire fragemented like Conservationist suggested earlier.

If I recall correctly, wasn't the size of the Imperium at the zenith of the Great Crusade greater than it is now? Since during and after the Horus Heresy the Imperium was greatly weakened and under attack from myriad factions. If the Emperor is reborn and can somehow seal or stabilise the Webway Gate on Terra, then I suspect his influence could turn the tide.

Hey to you too.

bloodjunkey wrote:Seriously the Imperium has a 99% chance of being by the nids, 50% with Chaos, and about 20% with everyone else

I would say that Imperium has 100% of chance to purge the galaxy of all the traitors, xenos and mutant scum.
All you need is a little faith and a loaded gun

Brother Coa wrote:

bloodjunkey wrote:Seriously the Imperium has a 99% chance of being by the nids, 50% with Chaos, and about 20% with everyone else

I would say that Imperium has 100% of chance to purge the galaxy of all the traitors, xenos and mutant scum.
All you need is a little faith and a loaded gun

A veeery big gun

Its only a matter of time before ork's Waaagh! their way to victory over the whole galaxy!!!

The orks will not be victorious! NEVERRR!

The Imperium can survive for several more Millennias. (Is that a proper word ) It will be defeat one day, it's just going to take a very very very very very long time. As long as Space Marines defending it.

FourCartridge wrote:As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined.

Without the emporor (emperor preserve us) allmost all humans would turn into chaos portals and everything would be lost....
I think, if they manage to keep the emperor alive they will, otherwise not.

jelisi wrote:

FourCartridge wrote:As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined.

Without the emporor (emperor preserve us) allmost all humans would turn into chaos portals and everything would be lost....
I think, if they manage to keep the emperor alive they will, otherwise not.

Space Marines don't count as human human. Do they?

Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.

Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.

But they are super human human not human human.

Luna Dragon wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.

But they are super human human not human human.

You are making it complicated...

jelisi wrote:

Luna Dragon wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.

But they are super human human not human human.

You are making it complicated...

Ahhh that makes no sense.

Asherian Command wrote:

jelisi wrote:

Luna Dragon wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.

But they are super human human not human human.

You are making it complicated...

Ahhh that makes no sense.

Space Marines are Super Human. Asherian Command says they not. Every thing I know about Space Marine says they are Super Human.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My answer is yes. All the Imperium needs is and less

As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined

Only killed that many people because there are more people available to be killed. Say if the Emperor began his crusades on current planet earth. and 5% of the current population was against him and were killed. That is 300,000,000 people if my math is correct and the current population is around 6 billion. However the population of the IoM is not 6 billion........ it is a heck of a lot more. SO 5% of that........... is also a heck of a lot more.