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[[Image:AOI]]

History has a habit of repeating itself; The Age of Old Earth is known as the time from the dawn of mankind to the founding of the Imperium. Cities such as Atlantys and Nova Yourk are cited as being the most legendary and ancient cities of Old Earth. Nations known as Jermani, Merica, Britania, and Bania are said to have prospered and wilted during this time.
Throughout history, all famous civilisations are destroyed.



The Imperium was founded ten thousand years ago and it is currently ruled by the heavy hand, of the High Lords of Terra and though the voice of the ‘immortal’ god-emperor. Can this Empire/civilisation stand for even another Millennia? - Especially when our world’s ancient nuclear powers, glorious warrior Primarchs all succumbed to their deadly fate amongst the galactic battlefield?

Don't think so.

Well, I think that when the throne finally fails everything is going to fall into chaos. With no astronomicon there'll be no 'safe' warp travel. There is a good chance Terra will fall to daemons inside the webway. Hundreds of thousands of planets will be lost to enemies of the IoM and thousands more will leave the IoM. The entire governing system of the IoM will be shaken by the loss of Terra and the emperor. In all likely hood there'll be a power struggle between the remaining factions of IoM (mecanicus, departmento munititorium, esseclarchy, inquisition) for power over what is left of the IoM and for power within their factions.

But will the IoM survive? IMO, Yeah, probably. The emperor will either be reborn into the universe or become a seriously powerful chaos god, one which makes the top four look a little weak. He'll help. The fact that the IoM is so huge will mean that some areas will survive. For example, IoM planets in the veiled region will probably survive because they're so damn hard to find.

But then again, the odds ain't in our favor...

GW seems to have built up the 'End Times' into a sort of Make or Break for the Imperium of Man. I'll put my trust in cold steel and human resolve.

The IoM's fortunes seem to go up and down and right now they are pretty down... i have a feeling that if it went on they'd eventually recover... though billions and billions would die.

The IoM will probably just fracture into smaller sub empires. They will be centered around some of the more powerful areas such as Ultramar and the fleet bases. The big E will not become a warp god it just doesnt make sense IMHO.

The chaos gods are made up of emotions and just because the E is a uber powerful psycher doesnt mean he will become a god upon death.

I can Imagine that the IoM will become like a bunch of little Tau empires all over the place with the Astartes just protecting the routes between them.

There doing the same thing that they have for the past 10,000 years. I think that they could keep doing it for at least another couple.
While it does look rather bleak atm it also probably looked pretty bleak during the heresy or the age of apostasy.

The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!). When he dies, the astronomican will collapse causing the failure of psychic communication and stable warp travel. Humanity will likely fracture and the Imperium will collapse into a massive and very destructive civil war. There will become a new dark age throughout the Imperium and it's likely that billions, if not trillions of lives will be lost.

From there, there are 3 possible outcomes.

1. There species of Homo Erectus will be destroyed and Humanity will be extinct. Haha, not bloody likely! Just like 'Emperors Faithful' I put my trust in cold steel, human resolve and good old perseverance (with a bayonet in hand, of course!)

2. We become a broken species on the brink of extinction like those pansy Eldar. The difference between them and us though is that as Humans, we dont have the patience (or the lifespan) to train our warriors for centuries and we're much more headstrong and impatient. This can be a good thing when you need to make up lost ground! See, we rarely have this "I'll just do a little bit at a time to help my species" mindset. Humans are much more "OMG, I need to be remembered forever so I need to do ALL OF THIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSS in, what!? 50 years!? I'd better get started RIGHT NOW!" So we'll do what Humans do best! Breed like bunnies, put our faith in the Emperor returning to save us and charge in against anything that stood in our way! . . . Unfortunately as Humans, this also means that we may attack each other, but fingers crossed we could use our common hate of everyone else to help unite us lol.

3. Definitely the most likely. In these darkest of days, and maybe even after number 2 comes to some form of fruition, the Emperor will be reborn. Just like in the days of old, before the official founding of the Imperium when the Emperor was born from the souls of the Shamans, the Emperors soul will one day find its way through the warp and be born in the material realm to once again lead Humanity to a new Golden Age.

The Emperor Protects. Now. Forever. Always.

Humanity shall never be defeated.

purplefood wrote:The IoM's fortunes seem to go up and down and right now they are pretty down... i have a feeling that if it went on they'd eventually recover... though billions and billions would die.

Arguably that's never mattered much before now. This time it'd hurt em' though

Lord Graveline wrote:The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!).

It doesn't actually say that the Golden Throne is failing. Just that Tech Priests have discovered failings in the Golden Throne that they can't repair. No info is given on how severe or extensive these failings are or how crucial these are to the workings of the throne. It's unreasonable to simply assume out of hand that the Emperors Death is imminent.

Imperium will survive, simply because we are Humans and we are hard to exterminate. Also, I imagine that in time they will upgrade their tech, maybe use something new under the pressure of war effort. Also, in time there will be more SM chapters, more IG regiments to replace those that where lost in the wars for retribution. And if GT fails - the Emperor will simply resurect and then god help the aliens, mutants and heretics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Graveline wrote:
We become a broken species on the brink of extinction like those pansy Eldar. The difference between them and us though is that as Humans, we dont have the patience (or the lifespan) to train our warriors for centuries and we're much more headstrong and impatient. This can be a good thing when you need to make up lost ground! See, we rarely have this "I'll just do a little bit at a time to help my species" mindset. Humans are much more "OMG, I need to be remembered forever so I need to do ALL OF THIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSS in, what!? 50 years!? I'd better get started RIGHT NOW!" So we'll do what Humans do best! Breed like bunnies, put our faith in the Emperor returning to save us and charge in against anything that stood in our way! . . . Unfortunately as Humans, this also means that we may attack each other, but fingers crossed we could use our common hate of everyone else to help unite us lol.

And btw there is a secret organization of both Humans and Eldar that is working to prevent just that. They have many allies, some of witch are planetary governors.

in reference to the possibility of the GT failing, i'd be inclined to agree with those that think that the emperor would be reborn, rather than becoming some kind of god whether chaos or otherwise. What i think would be a really interesting twist would be for the IoM to have to scour the galaxy or whatever, looking for the emperor, reborn into his new 'vessel', in whatever form that may be. It would be like when the emperor had to search for his sons the primarchs, now the children of the emperor, would be in turn searching for their father. GW have always wirtten and come up with immense back story etc for their games, and i dont doubt that they already have some ideas for how the fortunes of the IoM are going to change when they release the 6th edition rules.

The Imperium has endured for 10,000 years it shall endure for 10,000 more

All depends what happens to the Emperor in this time. If he dies there will definitely be problems. Especially the time it will take him to return the power. (the way he is reborn). When he dies and humanities back is broken things will definitely happen.
- Eldar will scoot around like normal.
- Tau will definitely benefit, gain ALOT of human cultists for the greater good.
- Cadia will eventualy fall to Chaos and the Eye of terror will break quarantine.
- Tyranids may actually leave humanity alone, now that the giant "free buffet" neon sign that is the Emperor has gone out.
- Hopefully mars will throw out something useful to help out humanity for a while. (and the Dragon wont burst ouit and do some raping.)
- Ork's will love the easy fights of less defended planets.

Thats how I think of it anyways.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
- Tyranids may actually leave humanity alone, now that the giant "free buffet" neon sign that is the Emperor has gone out.

That's a good point actually. I wonder what would happen with the nids if the astronomican fades. We all now they want to nom us because we're basically on their path towards terra and the big psychic flashlight which attracts them like moths. So, I wonder if they would leave the galaxy if the emperor stops fueling the astronomican.

On the point of the AdMech, I think that if the Imperium collapses, a lot of planets would stop to be under the AdMech's technological censure, which would eventually bring about a new era of technological innovations (in the few star systems that maintained a strong political organisation). Because remember that if the IoM collapses, the AdMech collapses too. These two entities are too reliant on each other to survive alone. And without the AdMech's stupid religious beliefs, humanity would start inventing new ways to kill people every day like the Tau!

Well, it has been stuck in 999.M41 for about 20,000 years already...

Toward the OP, I doubt it. With it's current way of thinking, general pessimism and downright brutality, no. there's a chance for it, but they need to change their methods if that can ever be realized.


My bet is if the Imperium collapses, Humanity will likely fracture up into several independent organizations(rendering the Emperors whole effort in his life null, void, and moot), regress even further than it already is, and basically fight just to survive(of course, that's not a big change). If Games Workshop ever decides to advance the fluff, this would be probaly the course it would go.

Some good reactions/comments from all of you. I will post something myself later

I personally thin that the eintire Galaxy will turn into one free for all. With the big E reborn trying to unite the IoM there will be some small fractures. Abaddon will try to fight pass Cadia and most Primarchs will return. The Necrons may discover more C'Tan to lead them in their war of extermination. The dark eldar have been increasingly violent and this will continue. Eldar and tau may ally and forge a larger empire in the southeast and the nids will pause as the astronomican goes out but will restart when the emporer hits the main stage again and the orks will keep fighting as they always have.

Brother Coa wrote:Imperium will survive, simply because we are Humans and we are hard to exterminate. Also, I imagine that in time they will upgrade their tech, maybe use something new under the pressure of war effort. Also, in time there will be more SM chapters, more IG regiments to replace those that where lost in the wars for retribution. And if GT fails - the Emperor will simply resurect and then god help the aliens, mutants and heretics.

^This. Back humanity into a corner and start praying that it doesn't come back to obliterate you.

Whats more tenacious and brutal than an ork, more cunning than an eldar, more stubborn than a squat and more resourceful than a tau firewarrior?

nothing in existence is more dangrous than a man fighting for his right to exist and his right to be free.

so the answer to your question? yes, the IoM will be around for the unforseeable future.

WARORK93 wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Imperium will survive, simply because we are Humans and we are hard to exterminate. Also, I imagine that in time they will upgrade their tech, maybe use something new under the pressure of war effort. Also, in time there will be more SM chapters, more IG regiments to replace those that where lost in the wars for retribution. And if GT fails - the Emperor will simply resurect and then god help the aliens, mutants and heretics.

^This. Back humanity into a corner and start praying that it doesn't come back to obliterate you.

Whats more tenacious and brutal than an ork, more cunning than an eldar, more stubborn than a squat and more resourceful than a tau firewarrior?

nothing in existence is more dangrous than a man fighting for his right to exist and his right to be free.

so the answer to your question? yes, the IoM will be around for the unforseeable future.

As much as I loathe to compare the human race to Cockroaches, I'd like to think we are at least as tenacious as the orks and Eldar.

Though it has been said in the fluff that mankind has a "special relationship" with Chaos. It was foreseen by certain Xenos and explained to Alpharius that should Horus defeat the Emperor mankind and chaos would "cancel each other out" thus saving the galaxy. Ok, I'm really paraphrasing here...

With that in mind, I wonder what mankind would do if EVERYONE was trying to exterminate us in order to foster every other races salvation? That might be tough even for us Cockroaches.

Even if every race wored together it would take some doing... the Imperium is a big place and it would take a while... there are always survivors

Deleted extra post...

Laodamia wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
- Tyranids may actually leave humanity alone, now that the giant "free buffet" neon sign that is the Emperor has gone out.

That's a good point actually. I wonder what would happen with the nids if the astronomican fades. We all now they want to nom us because we're basically on their path towards terra and the big psychic flashlight which attracts them like moths. So, I wonder if they would leave the galaxy if the emperor stops fueling the astronomican.

On the point of the AdMech, I think that if the Imperium collapses, a lot of planets would stop to be under the AdMech's technological censure, which would eventually bring about a new era of technological innovations (in the few star systems that maintained a strong political organisation). Because remember that if the IoM collapses, the AdMech collapses too. These two entities are too reliant on each other to survive alone. And without the AdMech's stupid religious beliefs, humanity would start inventing new ways to kill people every day like the Tau!

No, they wont leave because they found quite a bit' of tasty biomass here. However they will probably stop charging humanity as much.

I'm in the 'Emperor dies and is reborn boat'. but when he comes back... does he learn from his mistakes? or do things continue as they did, dooming us to the eternal repetition of other peoples failures?
I think humanity will survive. Maybe ally with one of the less evil races (eldar/tau) to do so, but it will the IOM? nope. its stagnated. it will collapse on itself eventually and something new will be born.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Lord Graveline wrote:The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!).

It doesn't actually say that the Golden Throne is failing. Just that Tech Priests have discovered failings in the Golden Throne that they can't repair. No info is given on how severe or extensive these failings are or how crucial these are to the workings of the throne. It's unreasonable to simply assume out of hand that the Emperors Death is imminent.

I didnt mean that right now it's failing and gonna collapse tomorrow. The Golden Throne itself is a massive machine! I just meant that if these failings continue to pile up, just like the motor of a car or the cogs of a factory, those small little breaks in the machine are gonna cause it to break down eventually (and sadly).


WARORK93 is right. Humanity is far too tenacious to just roll over and die when it looks like all hope is lost. We're not cockroaches, because we're better than everyone else -- but we'll certainly seem like it to them! We'll definitely come back and win at life, the universe and everything. Doubt is for the dying -- cept the Human Race!

To CoI -- I was thinking the same thing! Im wondering if He'll have learned from his past mistakes or if He's going to continue the cycle of "Great Crusade --> Horus Heresy --> Undeath (vegetative state) via Life Support + Perceived Godhood --> Death --> Rebirth" or if instead it'll be more like "Great Crusade --> Humanity totally kicking everyone's butt (even in the event of an attempted coup by a Horus-like figure)"

We have looked at the issues surrounding the Sanctum Imperialis, the fears behind losing the Emperor and the strength & perseverance of the human race over the various adversaries faced in the galaxy.

But what about the effectiveness and sheer numbers of IoM's actual manpower?

Looking at the spacemarines first (roughly 1 million strong on paper) which roughly equates to a dismal one space marine warrior per planet in the empire - We have that many worlds... This of course is not workable, so we need countless billions of men and women - hundreds of thousands of different regiments - to use as landfill & provide cannon fodder. They are our formidable Imperial Guard which we all know.

But heres the thing - the administrative and logistical demands currently posed on the Administratum would in reality have to limit the number of combat troops put in the field. The billions-strong manpower "pipeline" would be an "invisible horde of people going here and there but seemingly never arriving". So this means your probably looking at less than a quarter of the total imperial army force (and much much less for Astartes legions) engaged at any one time against the enemy. Because of this; our forces that are engaged in the fighting against your Orks, Chaos and other horrible bests, are suffering probably 80 percent casualties. A prime example of this damaging concept is the the Ultramarines fighting against the Hive fleet Behemoth and losing an entire company.

I realise the empire cant be everywhere at once - but that is the problem isnt it? The empire, even with the immortal emperor still alive or dead is likely to see a future split into two or maybe three empires maybe? The start is, its even lost contact with old conquered imperial worlds for generations...

That's the Adminastratum for you. If the Imperium can just get the obsessive compulsive bureaucrats out of the way, it's manpower pipeline is defiantly going to be more streamlined.

Emperors Faithful wrote:It doesn't actually say that the Golden Throne is failing. Just that Tech Priests have discovered failings in the Golden Throne that they can't repair. No info is given on how severe or extensive these failings are or how crucial these are to the workings of the throne. It's unreasonable to simply assume out of hand that the Emperors Death is imminent.

Tech Priest "I'm sorry my lord, but I dont know how to fix the vibraty part"

But in all seriosness, I do think the Imperium will eventually fail, but I don't think it will be the end of humanity. Another Empire or other human nations will arise, hopefully without a fear of advancing technology.

edit: this way im less repeditive

As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined.