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Imposter? Maybe a plant by Chaos to mislead us? Or saviour of our Galaxy?

Well if you are thinking along the lines of assassination, you will have your work cut out for you. Of all the Galactic leaders, the God-Emperor is perhaps the most protected.
His body is kept inhumanly alive in the throne room surrounded by no less than at three hundred Adeptus Custodes, the heart of the Imperial Palace, on the Imperial hive world of Holy Terra [Earth].

The Palace itself is divided into Inner and Outer Palace. It is described as "an endless, black hive of forbidden technology and subterranean passages delving deep within the bowels of the planet."

There is a fear of Space Marines among the people who live on Terra, so any assassins would need to adopt a lesser profile. Perhaps disguising under the pretence of a Pilgrim would allow the assassin(s) the edge they needed to inflitrate properly and to remain unseen and pass through the Eternity Gate.

The fear of removing the Emperor from power, is that such an event might supposedly create a fifth God of Chaos and create another Eye of Terror; one which would span the entire Imperium. Then the IoM would definitely be retreating on all fronts.

But is this Imperial truth? A deception, a construct created by the High Lords of Terra? Who knows....in the meantime thousands of psykers are sacrificed every year to sustain the Emperor's psychic presence in the Warp, and countless thousands more must constantly be drained to power the Astronomican. We are losing any chance of a saviour appearing to rescue man. It would make a good story at least

I meant before the Heresy, when the Emperor was still alive. I still think he's just a glorified murderer.

They will conqure all within the next millenia

They are spread a little to thin thier for i think they will die.

In crunch-time the Imperium could always bring its forces back in on itself. They would lose ALOT of territory but its better than extinction.

Yeah, humanity is far too resilient to simply vanish like that. The IoM might get destroyed or at least be seriously weakened during the course of the next millenia, but humanity will prevail.

My take on the whole end of days is, the emperor wont die straight away but rather ... wilt, the astronomicom dulling permanently and no more emperors tarot, random miracles or him talking to mankind
But instead we see a new individual born the 40k equivalent of fantasies Valten exalted of Sigmar, An individual with all the powers and memories of the Emperor perhaps even a birthmark of the imperial Aquila on his chest.
But the Iom would be torn about if they should accept this individual as the Emperor reincarnated or just a powerful heretic, perfectly fits the Grimdark nature of 40k, eventually after failing to seize power from the high lords of terra who are still adamant on worshiping the now soulless husk of the emperor which using some residual energy left in it still powers the astronomicon.
This new dude then sets about with a few uber zealous chapters of marines (black termplars / blood angels ?) on finding his surviving loyal sons, and curing things such as the geneflaws of the blood angels / space wolves and salamanders / the giant gash in Guillmans throat, whilst silently guiding humanity and protecting it from external threats like he did in the days before the great crusade.

This is all assuming the astronomicon doesnt just die all together in that case the reborn emperor would likely still be able to warp travel on his own, and would likely set about contacting space marine chapters and making there recruiting worlds / homeworlds as safe bastions where humanity can live independently and reestablish society and order, guarded by space marines. Eventually after collecting enough refugees these bastions can turn into training grounds for more imperial guard troops, and more space marines as there would no longer be any need for the 1000 marine limit per chapter.

Humanity would essentially survive but be spread out some loyal to the old regime where the ecclesiary / high lords of terra / machnarium band together to survive. And on the other hand there'd be the pro post human group led by the emperor and his space marines, but with rising tensions between both groups, incredibly powerful armies on both and unique soldiers and weapons both sides could become armies in a hypothetical "warhammer 41k". Kind of like fantasies empire and bretonia, the oldschool imperium would have the funky tech of the machinarium and all of the old research / stc's discovered and developed before the emperors death, whilst the posthuman imperium would have the space marines and whatever new creations the emperor can come up with.

Meanwhilst chaos takes gak loads of territory, Eldar / Tau manage to make a semi stable alliance with the posthuman imperium whilst both necron and tyranids attack with much more force then ever before, striking whilst the imperium is in disarray and weak. Orks would largely be the same albeit more widespread, Grey knights would likely consort with the emperor in secret and after he somehow confirms the genelink between him and there chapter would likely join the post human imperium. Dark eldar would increase there raids on now defenseless planets, and even gain a measure of respite from she who thirsts considering all the war and excess happening in the universe at large. Id really like to say something nice could happen to the eldar like maybe they manage to save Isha but lets face it nothing nice ever happens to the Eldar .

Phew wall of text over

There is one MAJOR thing I feel people are overlooking. Even with the astronomicon the infra structure of the Imperium of Man, is a mockery.
They have no way of survailing every planet and warp travel is already dangerous as it is. As far as I am aware only 2 / 3 or 3 / 4
(I am enclined to believe the first of them) of the ships make it through warp and the only reason the Imperium can fight all those wars is because
of the shear size of ressource, both manpower andrations, weapons, etc., the administratum sends that they can wage these wars.

Without the astronomicon the Emperor is emitting into the entire galaxy of man, warp travels would be even more dangerous, perhaps only 1 in a
100 ships will make it through the warp.

With so many ressource lost and the opening of the giant warp portal beneath the golden throne, which will almost double the size of the Eye of Terror.
I would say humanity stands little chance of regaining their former glory, now that the unrelenting orcs go unchecked, the tyranids still going rampant and
the Tau empire speeding up their expansions. Of course we shouldn't forget the new giant hole in reality which will spec out even more corruption than
the current Eye of Terror.

Also, with no form of warp travel. The black ships of the inquisition will not be able to gather the psykers of the many worlds of the imperium and therefor
I am enclined to be believe that the threat of planets becoming Daemon Worlds to rise significantly.

So in the end, with no central government (since the high lords are dead, as they are on terra.) the Imperium of Man would collapse together. By the
unrelenting forces attacking them along with ambitious nobels who seek to claim their own empires.

Also, even if the Emperor is reborn, before all of the above would happen) he would have to stay in the golden throne, as he is the only keeping the portal
closed and he is also the only reason there is any infrastructure in the Imperium of Man.

I hope you could manage the wall of text :b

There are stable warp-routes that can be Navigated without the aid of the Astronomican. The entire Eastern Fringe of the Segmentum Ultima depends on this phenomenon, as they lie beyond the light of the Astronomican, as does the Koronus Expanse and the Jericho Reach (formerly the Jericho Sector).

Entire xeno species ply the Warp without the Astronomican (the Tau and the Eldar, for example) and do not seem to have any more trouble than Humanity does (and possibly fewer problems, in the case of the Tau).

Will the loss of the Astronomican spell the end of the Imperium? Probably not, though it does make long-distance warp travel much more difficult, as the Navigator does not have a third point to triangulate the jump with. Still, local clusters will be able to maintain shipping, trade and transport, and the known stable warp routes between distant sections of space will still be available.

If the Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy lose their hold on the lives and thoughts of the common Imperial citizen, it's inevitable that certain Rogue Traders will learn to make use of Eldar web-ways and Tau "warp-skimming" technologies to ply the gulfs between stars. Extrapolating from this, these technologies will, eventually, filter down to the Munitorum, the Astartes, and, finally, common Chartist captains, restoring the Imperium's ability to travel vast distances in space.

Sure, some (many) worlds will be lost, some will secede and found their own mini-Imperiums, possibly allying with Eldar or Tau xenos. Some will be devoured by the Tyranid (who prevent warp travel anyway, and yet have been defeated several times), and some will fall to the Ruinous Powers... but this does not spell the end of the Imperium.

Still, the Imperium is a feudal system. The Lord Sectors maintain an iron grip on the regions of space they are responsible for. The Space Marines maintain thousands of Fortress Worlds throughout the Imperium. The Deathwatch, just to use one as an example, often populates a Fortress World with a single Marine, for decades at a time, who holds the world against both xeno and moral threats.

The loss of the Emperor will, of course, be a crippling blow to the Imperium, but it will not likely be a fatal one. After all, the vast majority of people in the Imperium will never leave the planet of their birth, and only Navigators can see the Astronomican anyway. The disinformation fed the populace from the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy will, supported by the Arbites and the IG/PDF, in many regions, keep things under control, at least within the immediate locale.

The New Imperium that will rise from such an event will probably be a bit more technologically-based, a bit less superstitious, and perhaps, in certain areas, find allies amongst the xenos, but will not be terribly different from that which preceded it... at least not for several millennia yet to come.

ChronoCupcake wrote:My take on the whole end of days is, the emperor wont die straight away but rather ... wilt, the astronomicom dulling permanently and no more emperors tarot, random miracles or him talking to mankind
But instead we see a new individual born the 40k equivalent of fantasies Valten exalted of Sigmar, An individual with all the powers and memories of the Emperor perhaps even a birthmark of the imperial Aquila on his chest.
But the Iom would be torn about if they should accept this individual as the Emperor reincarnated or just a powerful heretic, perfectly fits the Grimdark nature of 40k, eventually after failing to seize power from the high lords of terra who are still adamant on worshiping the now soulless husk of the emperor which using some residual energy left in it still powers the astronomicon.
This new dude then sets about with a few uber zealous chapters of marines (black termplars / blood angels ?) on finding his surviving loyal sons, and curing things such as the geneflaws of the blood angels / space wolves and salamanders / the giant gash in Guillmans throat, whilst silently guiding humanity and protecting it from external threats like he did in the days before the great crusade.

This is all assuming the astronomicon doesnt just die all together in that case the reborn emperor would likely still be able to warp travel on his own, and would likely set about contacting space marine chapters and making there recruiting worlds / homeworlds as safe bastions where humanity can live independently and reestablish society and order, guarded by space marines. Eventually after collecting enough refugees these bastions can turn into training grounds for more imperial guard troops, and more space marines as there would no longer be any need for the 1000 marine limit per chapter.

Humanity would essentially survive but be spread out some loyal to the old regime where the ecclesiary / high lords of terra / machnarium band together to survive. And on the other hand there'd be the pro post human group led by the emperor and his space marines, but with rising tensions between both groups, incredibly powerful armies on both and unique soldiers and weapons both sides could become armies in a hypothetical "warhammer 41k". Kind of like fantasies empire and bretonia, the oldschool imperium would have the funky tech of the machinarium and all of the old research / stc's discovered and developed before the emperors death, whilst the posthuman imperium would have the space marines and whatever new creations the emperor can come up with.

Meanwhilst chaos takes gak loads of territory, Eldar / Tau manage to make a semi stable alliance with the posthuman imperium whilst both necron and tyranids attack with much more force then ever before, striking whilst the imperium is in disarray and weak. Orks would largely be the same albeit more widespread, Grey knights would likely consort with the emperor in secret and after he somehow confirms the genelink between him and there chapter would likely join the post human imperium. Dark eldar would increase there raids on now defenseless planets, and even gain a measure of respite from she who thirsts considering all the war and excess happening in the universe at large. Id really like to say something nice could happen to the eldar like maybe they manage to save Isha but lets face it nothing nice ever happens to the Eldar .

Phew wall of text over

agreed.

Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.

They're dying. They can't hold forever.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.

They're dying. They can't hold forever.

Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.

But Humanity cannot survive with blind baseless devotion to a way of life that focuses on death, destruction, and apathy. Sure the Emperor may be helpful to humanity, I think that humankind could live on. As the last poster said, nothing lasts forever.

Also, since this wasn't replied to, I'll restate my opinion the Emperor is just a glorified murderer. As one famous person said, "Never think that war, no matter how justified or necessary, is not a crime." He practically killed more people than all of history's dictators and tyrants combined. I'm starting to think he, in his quest to better humanity, broke everything.

So what happens when the Will of the Emperor fades? Is there a huge boom and shock-wave of built up psychic energy that blows half the galaxy up or is there just a wet fart?

I don't believe the Emperor "broke everything" by trying to fix everything. I mean, things surely are a hell of a mess. But, I don't think he broke everything. If he hadn't re-conquered and re-united Man then where would they be currently? Segmented away from one another in clusters, segregated and devoid of any real power. At least now they have enough soul and meat to soak up the advances of their enemies -- for now. Either way, Humanity is boned. I think the Imperium has a good chance of survival, nonetheless.

FourCartridge wrote:But Humanity cannot survive with blind baseless devotion to a way of life that focuses on death, destruction, and apathy. Sure the Emperor may be helpful to humanity, I think that humankind could live on. As the last poster said, nothing lasts forever.

Also, since this wasn't replied to, I'll restate my opinion the Emperor is just a glorified murderer. As one famous person said, "Never think that war, no matter how justified or necessary, is not a crime." He practically killed more people than all of history's dictators and tyrants combined. I'm starting to think he, in his quest to better humanity, broke everything.

You are mistaken, even if the Emperor dies by some miracle you think that the High Lords will ever inform Imperium's populace on this? Even if they tell that the religion will only strengthen as a whole. Just look at Christianity, after Christ's death the religion only strengthen.

And if you think that the Emperor is murderor what about Goge Vandir? Chaos Gods? Orks? Eldar? Necrons? Dark Eldar? Tyranids? various planetary Governors?
And you can take your "famous person" words and tell them to an Ork or a Tyranids and we shall se if they will listen, you can't use Human philosophy for alien races. Because they all see us as prey or animal - not equals. And if I rob a bank and shot several people in your name are you responsible? The Emperor didn't kill anyone in my knowledge, he even thought that people can be saved no matter what. Just look at Horus, he didn't kill him until the last moment. He did a wonderful and god-like job: unifying the Humanity as a whole, it's not his fault that we have allow ourself to be in this position once again. Only this time there won't be an Emperor to save us once again.

I suppose it could last for a few thousands years more, it is hard to wipe out a race that has spread like a plague and inhabit most parts of the galaxy. It is just like trying to kill every cockroach in the world, impossible. We can run, we can hide and we breed like rats.

While I posed the question of whether the IoM can hold on and survive another millennia, it was quite interesting that some of us believe that man’s very existence is at stake, should the Emperor and indeed his empire fall. However, are we not conceding to a one-dimensional level of thinking?

I mean does the fate of the Emperor run deeply parallel with deciding the future of mankind itself?

Man existed before the empire was created and in the 40K universe has colonised vast areas of the MW galaxy; so much so that the Administration can’t keep up. In the 21st century, just one earth-threatening disaster could have written off mankind – but now with the spread of humans into the vast cosmos of space makes such a task virtually impossible does it not? We are adaptable, we are natural survivors, we pose ample intelligence to withstand this futuristic world and our own ‘animal’ instinct has made us worthy adversaries against our enemies – some of which want to actually corrupt us for their own power battles.

The Eldar whilst a more ancient race than ourselves are likely (as has been seen before) side with us should anything threaten the balance of the galaxy.

The Orks and Chaos may field large armies and go around terrorising and taking over sectors, but these surges are not organised and over time exhaust their resources and so the advantage of surprise, numbers and speed is lost. Meanwhile, the defenders (humans in particular) have the strategy and know-how to regroup, re-organise and then take the fight back.

It is becoming quite clear that we might have to give up territory like Sir Monty advised - we could Fall back and consolidate the star systems which IoM can defend easily. The paradox is, by using an orderly retreat and fall back upon ammo dumps etc – we could come back in sufficient strength and quite possibly take over the old contested ground once more and then succeed in taking over more of the galaxy than mankind ever did before.

Psienesis wrote:Entire xeno species ply the Warp without the Astronomican (the Tau and the Eldar, for example) and do not seem to have any more trouble than Humanity does (and possibly fewer problems, in the case of the Tau).

Just to mention that the Eldar do not use the warp due to the threat they are under because of slaanesh - they use the webway. Ships transporting Eldar come under increased attack from warp creatures as their souls are especially desired.

Eh, I think it will die, but not by Chaos's hand. I think Tyranids will be the eventual downfall of not just the IoM,but the enire Galaxy. Shadow in the Warp not only hurts the IoM and Eldar, it hurts Chao's abilities too. They need the warp just as bad as everyone else. The Tyranids are, I believe, the only species who does not need the warp to travel or communicate (Correct me if I'm wrong). Plus, since the Hive mind is a metaphysical entity, you can't kill it, only sever its connections to certain parts of the Galaxy.

Since scientists in the IoM think that the worst of Tyranids is yet to come, and Levithan is kicking the ass of every species out there... I think Tyranids have pretty well screwed the entire Galaxy, maybe even the Chaos God's themselves (Although I am still unsure if the Tyranids could even actually attack the plane that the Chaos God's live upon).

Tyranids will end it.. but im biased , or possibly chaos or orks at a push, but my best guess would be Tyranids in ending the Imperium of Man, but humanity? it depends as was said if they can attack the Chaos gods, and if you count cultists and traitor guards as still being part of humanity.

Tyranids ending life in the galaxy will depend on how they play the cards they have at the moment. If they continue fighting fringe worlds and small civilizations and the Orks for biomass then that will be good. They cant take on any species home area (except the Eldar because they don't have one anymore and are scattered.) They need to isolate the most fortified areas and cut them off and starve them out. If they were to attack terra now..... Leviathan would be spanked..... hard.

SO if these events were to unfold in this way, no the Imperium will die in the next 1000 years.

Asherian Command wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.

They're dying. They can't hold forever.

Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.

Why not Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons? Are they not also "life"? I think Eldar would survive and Necrons would just go back to sleep. Chaos will never "die" because they are not life in the corporeal sense. As long as there are humans (or other human-like people) there will be Chaos, as it is just a representation and embodiment of human emotion. A black hole will not simply suck that away.

IoM will get eaten sooner or later. The only question is when will that happen

Hm, just looked at the 40k wikia today at the Nids article, apparently IoM Psykers are predicting a much, much larger wave of Tyranids after Levithan (Which is a pretty huge Hive Fleet by itself)

According to the page, it will require the IoM to moblize 500% of its normal military strength to fight it off. Its a strange number if you ask me, but if that stat is true, that means pretty much every man, woman, and child will have to fight to successfully fend off the Tyranids when the next wave comes.

And if the next wave is that huge and there is still more hive fleets out there... well, then IoM is pretty screwed.

You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.

They're dying. They can't hold forever.

Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.

Why not Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons? Are they not also "life"? I think Eldar would survive and Necrons would just go back to sleep. Chaos will never "die" because they are not life in the corporeal sense. As long as there are humans (or other human-like people) there will be Chaos, as it is just a representation and embodiment of human emotion. A black hole will not simply suck that away.

Actually chaos is representation of all life. Not just humans.But chaos will end. Not by humans, not by other life, but by something else.

Asherian Command wrote:You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable.

I know, I was stating it as a hypothetical. Just throwing it out there as some brain food for everyone to chew on.

Asherian Command wrote:You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable.

True, but i think it would take all the races working together, or at least a large portion of them to completely stop the Tyranids, but that is doubtful as they will always fight each other, an alliance, of say, IoM, Eldar and Tau might be able to hold off the next wave if it comes in the next 1000 years, but even then they will still have to fight against Chaos, Necrons, Orks and Dark Eldar and cant see them stopping just because an even bigger fleet of hungry-super-space-reptile-bugs has shown up

"When the Golden Throne fails and the last flicker of life in the Emperor's body gutters out, the rule of Mankind will falter and His realm will splinter into desolate isles, soon to founder in an ocean of darkness. The dawn of the 41st millennium is the last stand of the Imperium of Man. Shall a new day come, after the return of the Old Night? There are many who look for hope, but none can say that they have found it and yet speak the truth."

yeah but once the astronomicon is gone the tyranids will not want to hunt down the humans seeing them useless, and goes towards their next targets. Eye of terror. Yummy.
Apparently I have a split personality O.o
Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.

Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.

I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..