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econtutor wrote:After reading through yet another "X faction rumor thread" I'm walking away baffled. Why the heck doesn't GW just come out and say what the heck they're working on... I can think of no other company that is so secretive about what's in the pipeline when it comes to releases.

When it comes to a release schedules, video game manufacturers, movie studios, other mini manufacturers, pretty much any other entertainment product I buy, the manufacturer lets the customer know what's coming out far before its release date. I'm curious why do you think GW tends to buck this trend? Why do they keep their future release schedule so secretive?

The ONLY reason I can think of is that the secrecy prevents customers from delaying purchases until new models are released. If true, this is a pretty S&%$^ reason, I'd be pissed if I dropped cash on a new army and two months later the rules and models for it were completely redone!

Because gamers, whether they be computer gamers, board gamers, or miniature gaming are whining ninnies. If we find out that the tau are the next ones to get a codex all of the necrons would whine that they don't get a codex. And they would be justified.

The only people that wouldn't be justified in whining would be nids and space marines. And we would mock them for whining.

Everyone (except them) would be justified in getting a codex. Are tau players morally better then necron players? Are eldar better then dark eldar? Were all people, none of us are inherently better then each other.

No race deserves to get a codex. Anything we get is out of the good will of GW, so sit back, stop whining about other people, and get some patience.

It's weird reading the posts from the random apologists that like to pop in to the threads where people are unhappy with poor communication. Like they get off on pretending this international retailer/manufacturer is in fact a glorious charity, and anyone who would ever want anything (and be willing to pay money for items) from this very much for-profit organization, is somehow a worse human being for it.

Anomaly1 wrote:Anything we get is out of the good will of GW

Have you even heard of the word business?

Toy companies in general keep their products under wraps. Last year I was into Lego and I remembered how you'd be peaking around for rumors all the way up until the toyfair, where the models were finally displayed. They were released not that long afterwards (comparable to just a tad longer than GW's own Pre-order period).

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:... you'd be peaking around for rumors all the way up until the toyfair, where the models were finally displayed...

Replace 'toy fair' with 'car show' or 'gaming show' or 'electronics conference' or half a dozen other things and you'll notice a trend with how companies reveal things.

On the other hand:

1. GW doesn't go to other trade shows/conferences/events. They consider themselves to be a hobby in and of themselves and thus won't participate in events that involved the rest of the miniature war gaming industry (something they are part of no matter how much they want to deny it).
2. GW doesn't preview things at its own shows. I remember last year (I think it was last year), the big display cabinets at GDUK were of the Skaven, who had been released in the weeks prior to the event. No actual upcoming products were talked about other than Forge World and Black Library, the only two wings of GW that seem to understand what a 'preview' actually is.

Recently, I've wondered if a side effect of GW not revealing what's coming next helps keep them from being overwhelmed with simultaneous 3rd party releases.

Mantic is pretty much hitting orcs on the head, but it's still a few months late (or at least once they'll actually be available). If they were ready on day 1, imagine the lost sales for GW...

That said, if I start O&G, it'll be with Mantic regardless. I can wait a few months to pay much, Much less... the retroactive doubling of the price of the old orc boy box just so it doesn't overshadow the new feral orc box is the one that makes it a very easy choice.

MikeMcSomething wrote:It's weird reading the posts from the random apologists that like to pop in to the threads where people are unhappy with poor communication. Like they get off on pretending this international retailer/manufacturer is in fact a glorious charity, and anyone who would ever want anything (and be willing to pay money for items) from this very much for-profit organization, is somehow a worse human being for it.

Anomaly1 wrote:Anything we get is out of the good will of GW

Have you even heard of the word business?

What, do you think just cause YOU pay a few bucks YOU get to call the shots?

Its called capitalism, it trumps business. It means they will do WHATEVER they feel like, sure, they will likely do things in order to make more money. But I think they will do things to make the game better, because in the long run that is better then immediate appeasment of the largest faction playerwise.

So if any of you think that you deserve, like you have some sort of god given right, to know what is going on at all times just because you paid a few hundred bucks for your army then wake the hell up.

They will do what they feel like, if it means coddling your ego then thats what they will do. But chances are, they won't waste their time on you, they will use their time to improve the game in any way they see fit.

You can argue "business this", "business that", all you like. But when push comes to shove, you would need to gather at least a few hundred players to make your opinion even HEARD at the fundamental level, and at least a thousand or even more players to actually force them to do ANYTHING.

Push comes to shove, you don't have that kind of power, you have the power of a snot in the eyes of a company like GW. What are YOU gonna do? threaten to never buy another boxed set of whatever the hell you feel like? You losing your hobby and hundreds of dollars of units will hurt you a lot more than it will GW. You wouldn't make a dent. And we both know it.

I'm not defending GW here, I'm laughing in the face of people that think that they are so special that they deserve to be held in higher regards by other companies. If you guys manage to get GW to go ahead and tell you what they're working on then big whoop. It wasn't because you held any sort of actual power. It's because, as I said before, they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Hence, I stand by what I said before, GW will only ever do this out of the goodness of their little XV88 hearts.

And as far as you are concerned, you should be content with that like I am.

Happy gaming.

Anomaly1 wrote:I'm not defending GW here

You are, and you're not doing it in a way that is any more persuasive than your last post, you just made it a longer read by missing the point a few more times.

RiTides wrote:... overwhelmed with simultaneous 3rd party releases.

Mantic is pretty much hitting orcs on the head...

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on their sunshine. You didn't just call Mantic a '3rd party' group did you? I seriously hope not. That'd be like calling Catalyst Games a 3rd Party producer for C.A.V..

MikeMcSomething wrote:

Anomaly1 wrote:I'm not defending GW here

You are, and you're not doing it in a way that is any more persuasive than your last post, you just made it a longer read by missing the point a few more times.

Im defending capitalism and free business. Not that I honestly believe it to be that ethical *cough* gulf coast disaster *cough* *cough*.

What in the world are you defending? That the public has a right to force companies to their will? How did that end up? I'm pretty sure they named a city after that guy who defended it, oh what was it? STALINGRAD. Yah, and that ended up so well.

Its a zero sum world, that's the belief of capitalism and practically every other economic strategy. Be happy with what you've got instead of greedy for what someone else has.

I don't care what GW decides on this matter, and something tells me that you don't really care either. Because either way I will continue to build my new tau 1850 army, and you will continue to play with whatever army you have.

Same with the rest of us. If your really willing to stake your gameplaying based off of this subject then yah, you CARE about how this turns out. And not even that much, because staking what could objectively be called an overglorified version of chess (and I say objectively, I personally see this as a unique and different game, but from an outside perspective they really are that similarly related) on something like this is not that much of a sacrifice.

But lets face facts, neither you, nor I, nor probably 4 out of 5 people whom read this message actually care that much about the subject.

An0maly1 wrote:

MikeMcSomething wrote:It's weird reading the posts from the random apologists that like to pop in to the threads where people are unhappy with poor communication. Like they get off on pretending this international retailer/manufacturer is in fact a glorious charity, and anyone who would ever want anything (and be willing to pay money for items) from this very much for-profit organization, is somehow a worse human being for it.

Anomaly1 wrote:Anything we get is out of the good will of GW

Have you even heard of the word business?

What, do you think just cause YOU pay a few bucks YOU get to call the shots?

Its called capitalism, it trumps business. ...

Wow...

At first, I thought this must just be someone that profoundly misunderstands the nature of capitalism, but then I realized it must be an elaborate troll.

Seriously, no one able to turn on a computer could possibly think that paying attention to consumer desires is (via reference to Stalingrad) a defining feature of Communism, Right?

I mean, no one could seriously think that anything done by a publicly traded company is something they are "doing... out of the goodness of their hearts", right?
.
.
.
Right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:... you'd be peaking around for rumors all the way up until the toyfair, where the models were finally displayed...

Replace 'toy fair' with 'car show' or 'gaming show' or 'electronics conference' or half a dozen other things and you'll notice a trend with how companies reveal things.

On the other hand:

1. GW doesn't go to other trade shows/conferences/events. They consider themselves to be a hobby in and of themselves and thus won't participate in events that involved the rest of the miniature war gaming industry (something they are part of no matter how much they want to deny it).
2. GW doesn't preview things at its own shows. I remember last year (I think it was last year), the big display cabinets at GDUK were of the Skaven, who had been released in the weeks prior to the event. No actual upcoming products were talked about other than Forge World and Black Library, the only two wings of GW that seem to understand what a 'preview' actually is.

With trade shows companies have to exhibit stuff giving long previews in order to secure retailers for their stuff. GW on the other hand never seem to attend such things and expect LGS and others to take on contracts with them and only give them the same degree of notice that they give the rest of the public or the bulk of their own staff. I'm pretty sure most toy companies and others don't expect people to retail their stuff when they don't even give a clue as to what they are doing beyond the next two months. Hasbro for instance display most of their future releases for at least the next year and sometimes beyond.

I suppose if anyone is showing a sense of entitlement it's GW and their assumption that many LGS will take their stuff come what may.

Mewens wrote:I'd imagine that GW has a similar fear. They'd rather have their competitors -- in this case, mostly dozens of small-market molders and sellers -- scrambling to catch up with the new tech in a new codex, rather than anticipating it and having models ready to go when the codex launches. Similarly, they'd rather see their copy-cat competitors with faster release cycles reacting to their rulesets, rather than anticipating and improving on them before release.

Ironic I suppose given that Reaper released a very Jokaero-like figure mere weeks before GW releases their own figure.

But anyway, GW do such a good job of sheltering their core audience, the younger players, from other manufacturers that I didn't think they treat others as a credible threat. As long as other companies don't copy their IP and people don't bring other models into their shops they are happy to ignore their very existence. Rather than 'compete' with competitors they carry on as though they are not there. If you're the sort of person that buys Mantic and others to fill out their Warhammer armies then you're probably beyond the influence of GW propaganda anyway so you're seen as a lost cause and a customer they can afford to lose.

They after all seem to rely heavily on new recruits to the hobby who solely buy GW, once you're a bit older and you buy less or buy other manufacturers you're very low on their list of priorities to satisfy, they it's a waste of resources to 'tempt you back' from other manufactures just like it is a waste to tempt someone back who has quit the hobby. The money is all in the new comers.

Howard A Treesong wrote:With trade shows companies have to exhibit stuff giving long previews in order to secure retailers for their stuff.

Yeah, 'cause, y'know, a big component of E3 each year is Sony and Microsoft hoping against hope that EB and Best Buy will continue to stock their products.

Good point re trade shows and retailers Howard

Have this morning received a newsletter from GW with hints at what they are going to release in the second DE wave.
Concept of the haemunculus that someone has posted already. And parts of something, possibly a Talos?
Not sure when the release is due but this may be a sign that they are taking notice at last.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300134a

If so good move GW even if is is a bit of a tease, it is a step in the right direction, and to those who said GW's market was working and all was tickity boo and what right have we to know what is coming etc, etc....
Yah boo sucks and a jolly good cocking of a snook to you!