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After reading through yet another "X faction rumor thread" I'm walking away baffled. Why the heck doesn't GW just come out and say what the heck they're working on... I can think of no other company that is so secretive about what's in the pipeline when it comes to releases.

When it comes to a release schedules, video game manufacturers, movie studios, other mini manufacturers, pretty much any other entertainment product I buy, the manufacturer lets the customer know what's coming out far before its release date. I'm curious why do you think GW tends to buck this trend? Why do they keep their future release schedule so secretive?

The ONLY reason I can think of is that the secrecy prevents customers from delaying purchases until new models are released. If true, this is a pretty S&%$^ reason, I'd be pissed if I dropped cash on a new army and two months later the rules and models for it were completely redone!

econtutor wrote:After reading through yet another "X faction rumor thread" I'm walking away baffled. Why the heck doesn't GW just come out and say what the heck they're working on... I can think of no other company that is so secretive about what's in the pipeline when it comes to releases.

When it comes to a release schedules, video game manufacturers, movie studios, other mini manufacturers, pretty much any other entertainment product I buy, the manufacturer lets the customer know what's coming out far before its release date. I'm curious why do you think GW tends to buck this trend? Why do they keep their future release schedule so secretive?

Video game companies and movie studios have no real choice in the matter. There's far too many people involved in the process for them to keep it quiet without killing off employees left and right.

'Other mini manufacturers' don't necessarily tell you what they're doing, but tease you a bit with it. Many of them just show you WIP stuff and just tell you they'll be out "sometime". If something changes between then and the release--people whine. It's easier to keep people in the dark and just deal with whatever happens with the release.

The ONLY reason I can think of is that the secrecy prevents customers from delaying purchases until new models are released. If true, this is a pretty S&%$^ reason, I'd be pissed if I dropped cash on a new army and two months later the rules and models for it were completely redone!

And by that same vein: GW would have craploads of unsold stock sitting on the shelves of their stores and the independent retailers who buy from them because someone was told that they can "get new models in a few months".

They also effectively don't make 'promises' they can't keep, by setting release dates(or even approximations of release dates), that fans will point to and cry about if something's missed.

Look at Duke Nukem Forever for an example of that.

They can't really 'recycle' the materials their stuff is made from, at least not efficiently.

As much as I would love to know the actual reason, I do believe it is partly motivated by the delayed purchase issue. I agree that it is a crap reason as well.

I think that another reason for it could be that they are still not financially secure enough to commit to producing items they currently have ready to go. So if they stated that this item was coming on this date and finances prevented it...?

This is pure speculation on my part, but I am sure it is as good as anything else you are going to hear.

It's all about marketing. If you knew say, blood angels were coming out after space wolves, would you buy space wolves or wait for blood angels?

Also they use hype to help spur purchases, see anything "Grey Knight" related atm.

GW does let you know what's in the works. I'm convinced 90% or so of these "rumors" are just viral marketing by GW.

Anyone who cared to has know about GK for months and months now. And, we're fully aware that SoB and Necrons are in the pipeline.

As for why they choose to do things this way... you'd have to ask a marketing person.

Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?


Just saying.

lord_blackfang wrote:Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?


Just saying.

Not 6 months from now, but I CAN tell you what exactly PP is releasing in 2 months, which is better than anyone can do for GW(all we know is it's Tomb Kings, so we only know for sure about the book, but not whether it's soft or hard cover).

I agree about the viral marketing aspect of things. I have believed for sometime now that GW leaks alot of what we have as rumors. Even the codex leaks I suspect are let out on purpose. I really think that GW as a company believes that the secrecy adds to the appeal of their products. They think their products are the best out there. They charge accordingly. They barely hint in open forum what is coming out, but they drop barely noticeable hints and feed the rumor mills constantly. It all adds to the glamor as they see it.

I find it annoying, but I still buy some of their stuff on occasion.

lord_blackfang wrote:Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?


Just saying.

Nope, but I could tell you that when PP redid hordes they had pretty accurate predicted release dates for all of the faction updates and the new rulebook, and some of these dates were six months or so in the future...

@Kanluwen

"Video game companies and movie studios have no real choice in the matter. There's far too many people involved in the process for them to keep it quiet without killing off employees left and right." Interesting visual with programmers being dragged out behind the building and "taken care of" I lol'ed

"And by that same vein: GW would have craploads of unsold stock sitting on the shelves of their stores and the independent retailers who buy from them because someone was told that they can "get new models in a few months". "- So it's the customer who takes the hit with old/unusable models instead of GW or FLGS's. Just an observation and if it makes sense financial sense for GW then I can see why they do.

lord_blackfang wrote:Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?

We didn't make the list :( but Dream Pod 9 has at least some stuff planned through the fall. I feel obligated to mention the 'coming soon' list on the DP9 online store is completely a 'best guess' at this point as real life often causes delays. We also usually sneak some mini releases in as they become available.

Personally, I prefer if a company plans in broad terms, then gets more specific as things get closer. For example, "Necrons in Q3 2011" followed a few months later by "Codex: Necrons in July with new Lord Blister and new Necron Megamonolith. New Pariahs in August" as things get closer.

Basically, don't lie and don't abuse the "We can't talk about that" answer.

Balance wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?

We didn't make the list :( but Dream Pod 9 has at least some stuff planned through the fall. I feel obligated to mention the 'coming soon' list on the DP9 online store is completely a 'best guess' at this point as real life often causes delays. We also usually sneak some mini releases in as they become available.

Pretty similar to how we do things. I've got the next 10 months planned out for Brushfire's releases, and the next 6 are generally shown on the website, once the greens are done and I have an idea of cost we enable preorders.

Kanluwen wrote:And by that same vein: GW would have craploads of unsold stock sitting on the shelves of their stores and the independent retailers who buy from them because someone was told that they can "get new models in a few months".

Eh, not really. Unless the old models were truly crap the old models will still have a demand, either because they're cheaper (via getting excluded from the biannual price hikes) or because people want something different. You'd see a bit of slowdown, but they'd still sell out of them.

Because then dakka dakka would be filled with nothing but. I hate this model idea, I hate this codex, I hate anything they announce tell they acutely come out with it, then I love it.

This is why I love wyrd games.. Not only do they tell you what's coming in the next 4 months, but when, how much it will cost & pictures when they have them ready. Not sure why GW keeps everything under tight wraps except maybe to prevent the inevitable complaining when every other item on the list is Spess Mahreens.

econtutor wrote:After reading through yet another "X faction rumor thread" I'm walking away baffled. Why the heck doesn't GW just come out and say what the heck they're working on... I can think of no other company that is so secretive about what's in the pipeline when it comes to releases.

When it comes to a release schedules, video game manufacturers, movie studios, other mini manufacturers, pretty much any other entertainment product I buy, the manufacturer lets the customer know what's coming out far before its release date. I'm curious why do you think GW tends to buck this trend? Why do they keep their future release schedule so secretive?

The ONLY reason I can think of is that the secrecy prevents customers from delaying purchases until new models are released. If true, this is a pretty S&%$^ reason, I'd be pissed if I dropped cash on a new army and two months later the rules and models for it were completely redone!

While only GW knows the answer to this question for sure (so anything we come up with here is ultimately just pure speculation) I think there are two important factors involved with this decision:


1) GW is a publicly traded company, and as far as I know, they are the only wargaming company in that boat. What that means is that any leak of information can potentially result in a drop in share prices for their share holders...and that's not something that a publicly traded company can allow because their goal is to ensure their shareholders stock value stays as high as possible.

That means they need every release carefully orchestrated and which is why the amount of leaks overall has dropped quite a bit compared with several years ago.


2) GW is clearly following the same marketing school of thought that Apple and other companies follow, which is to hold off promoting their products until they are available for sale. That way, when a potential customer sees the new hotness and wants to buy it, they will be able to immediately do so before the impulse wears off. Again, this is the same tactic that Apple uses...they keep their plans very tightly under wraps and then when they announce them, they are usually on sale within the next few weeks (max).

Obviously this marketing tactic does not appeal to a LOT of people, myself included, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't effective...only people who have access to GW's sales figures on new releases could know for sure, and even then it would be hard to say with certainty because every new product is a beast of its own. Obviously sales overall have been decreasing over the years for GW, but there are lots of other factors that are likely involved in that as well, including raised prices, quality miniature game competition and the continuing rise of video games (just to name a few).

So this marketing strategy may or may not be a good thing for GW...but only they know for sure (if anyone does).

But the big side benefit of the strategy is that it does help to control 'bad spin'...or at least it seems that way to share holders. So for example, if GW were to release a Stormraven pic months ahead of time and it gets universally panned by the internet, and then when the model is released the sales are poor, the shareholders looking for someone to blame for poor sales can now point the finger at the marketing strategy (instead of blaming the miniature design). It may seem that the 'bad press' the early pic got actually affected some of the buyers who were 'on the fence' that may have bought the model immediately when it was released until they read all the negativity about the early pic.

Whether that's actually true or not is irrelevant when it comes to stock value, as perception is all that matters. That's why with publicly traded companies you almost never get off-the-cuff statements from employees. That's why the GW design team isn't allowed to attend non-GW events anymore (like Adepticon). Nobody wants to be 'responsible' for something slipping out that inadvertently causes bad press and the stock prices to fall.

lord_blackfang wrote:Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?

Sure. They will be releasing unpainted miniatures, possibly for use in a game of some sort.

Ahtman wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Can someone please tell me exactly what Privateer Press, Battlefront, Reaper, Hasslefree, Soda Pop, Corvus Belli, Freebooter... are releasing 6 months from now?

Sure. They will be releasing unpainted miniatures, possibly for use in a game of some sort.

Aww Man! How come all these other companies are so open about what they have planned, but GW won't tell us anything?!

Goliath wrote:

Aww Man! How come all these other companies are so open about what they have planned, but GW won't tell us anything?!

None of those other companies are publicly traded companies, so bad press/opinions on their upcoming products does not affect their shareholder's stock value (as they don't have shareholders).

GW does. If pre-release information gets out and the reaction is overwhelmingly negative that can most certainly affect their stock value. As GW has an obligation to their share holders, I believe they have decided that releasing information about their upcoming products until when the actual product is ready for purchase gives them the best window for sales while avoiding any unnecessary negative speculation that can affect their stock value.

econtutor wrote:After reading through yet another "X faction rumor thread" I'm walking away baffled. Why the heck doesn't GW just come out and say what the heck they're working on... I can think of no other company that is so secretive about what's in the pipeline when it comes to releases.

When it comes to a release schedules, video game manufacturers, movie studios, other mini manufacturers, pretty much any other entertainment product I buy, the manufacturer lets the customer know what's coming out far before its release date. I'm curious why do you think GW tends to buck this trend? Why do they keep their future release schedule so secretive?

The ONLY reason I can think of is that the secrecy prevents customers from delaying purchases until new models are released. If true, this is a pretty S&%$^ reason, I'd be pissed if I dropped cash on a new army and two months later the rules and models for it were completely redone!

GW isn't a video game manufacturer or a movie studio. Video game manufacturer's and movie studios have a lot of serious competition from other video game manufacturer's and movie studios. GW simply doesn't have that kind of competition as a mini's manufacturer,and don't have to hype their products a year in advance in order to sell them. The little guys do,because they are all basically fighting for a slice of GW's pie. In the mini's game buisness,make no mistake,it's GW's pie.

In GW's case,it's actually counterproductive to hype releases too far in advance. Take 40k,for example. It's not really a single product line. It's 16 different product lines[Space Marines,Blood Angels,Dark Angels,Black Templars,Space Wolves,Grey Knights,Imperial Guard,Witch Hunters,Eldar,Dark Eldar,Chaos Space Marines,Chaos Daemons,Orks,Tau,Necrons,and Tyranids] all competing for the 40k player base's dollars. Advance hype on GW's website for the next army does next to nothing to GROW that player base. Instead,it has their player base hording money for future releases rather than spending money on products that are currently available. You may think that GW will get their money either way,but things happen and people can be fickle with their entertainment dollars. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and all that,and there is no guarantee that GW will see those dollars.

What we have also seen as being the trend for GW regarding lines that are being completely redone,like DH/GK,WH/SoB,and DE,is that GW pulls those old mini's off the shelves over a year before the new line comes out and puts them in mail order only status to prevent somebody from making a brand new army and then getting completely boned a couple of months later.

re: GW Share Price - I think it's been pretty obvious that GW's share price has been somewhere between "stagnant" and "circling the drain" for quite awhile now. I think we can safely put the ky-bosh on the idea of "stock price is down because those heathens on youtube said something bad about the Stormraven.".

Point 2) ok. They keep everything tightly "under wraps" and they still get panned, mocked and outright crapped on for it because either something gets "leaked" or, to put it bluntly, someone just makes it up. The bottom line benefit is what? Everyone getting to break out their "surprised face" when it's another bucket of dross labeled "Space Marines"?

But there are still plenty of companies that show the prototype wares, that release proposed production schedules each year and update quaterly.

Have seen test shots of models absolutely panned on forums but the companies are still trading.

No company is going to get things absolutely right all of the time. Are the shareholders really that fickle? There is a lot of trustfunds iirc and while I cannot be certain, they won't be watching Dakka closely to ensure part of the portfolio is behaving itself.

It's not really that uncommon. Apple does it, as do most video game developers (I'm looking at nintendo, mostly).

It builds anticipation, obviously. It lets people speculate and guess, which makes them want to buy the product. It's simple

And if it is tosh do people buy it?
Do reviews and word of mouth not dampen subsequent sales?

Sales drop, shareholders panic
SELL!!SELL!!SELL!!

Swings and onions I guess

Worglock wrote:re: GW Share Price - I think it's been pretty obvious that GW's share price has been somewhere between "stagnant" and "circling the drain" for quite awhile now. I think we can safely put the ky-bosh on the idea of "stock price is down because those heathens on youtube said something bad about the Stormraven.".

Point 2) ok. They keep everything tightly "under wraps" and they still get panned, mocked and outright crapped on for it because either something gets "leaked" or, to put it bluntly, someone just makes it up. The bottom line benefit is what? Everyone getting to break out their "surprised face" when it's another bucket of dross labeled "Space Marines"?

1) I didn't say that bad press affects overall stock price...ultimately the condition of the company does that. However bad press and and DOES create dips in stock value. This is true in every single market as stock price is determined ultimately by the perceived value of the stock rather than anything truly tangible. This is why publicly traded companies always only release 'prepared statements' to the public, they very tightly control what their company says and does for fear that bad press may cause their stock to (even temporarily) dip. This is simply a fact of the stock market and right or wrong it is the environment that it creates.


2) I don't have any idea what point you're trying to make here except that you think people are tired of Space Marine releases? Again, the point of holding information secret is not because the company has some kind of mind-blowing new product, but rather so that when the information about the product is released, it is immediately on sale for the people who *do* get swept up by the flavor of the month (and there are people out there like that whether or not you are one of them).

Again, whether or not you or I agree with that marketing strategy doesn't matter if GW's data has shown them there is enough positive benefit off of these 'impulse buyers' to compensate for whatever ill-will is created by keeping their long-term releases secret. Clearly they believe there is, and they're the ones that have the actual sales data to look at.

Agreed with Samus_aran - It's like Apple I-phone 4 - talk about it for months, slowly release to the public(even though MILLIONS of units are in storage).

Generates public discussion - and you CANT pay for that kind of coverage!

Get's them out there, and discussions everywhere...

But discussion about what?
You must have some idea of what is being discussed.

I admit I am not a technonut nor an Apple fanboy, so am only going by what I can glean from various sources, but there are people willing to queue just to get their mitts on the latest slice of Apple.
How do you know it is any good?
What are you going on other than brand name?

Not sure the Apple analogy wholly stands up tbh

yakface wrote:GW does. If pre-release information gets out and the reaction is overwhelmingly negative that can most certainly affect their stock value.

Perhaps they could just put more thought into their stuff and not release obviously crap like the Grey Knight Death-transformer thing.

What Yak says about GW might be true if not for the fact that Forge World and the Black Library do exactly the opposite – news on upcoming releases, promotions, previews, sneak peeks, and so on. They also show up to trade shows and events to promote their own wares.

GW does none of this, and as I’ve said before in a similar discussion, if the small areas of your company are getting it right, how come the whole body can’t get it right?

It has been suggested that GW keeps their projects under wraps to build up a buzz on forums such as this one. This may be the case. However, their decisions are causing so much trash talking about the company that such a marketing plan could hardly be called a success. Obviously, they are annoying large numbers of their loyal customers, and that can only be a bad thing.

A viable company should not let stock prices dictate their decisions. However, one that is on the ropes may do so. I personally do not think that GW is on the ropes, but neither do I think that they are making decisions based on the trading price of their stock.

I suppose the thing that makes the most sense is that they do not want to advertise something early on and then have major delays or worse yet scrap the idea. Based on their lack of playtesting, and proof reading I think that it is clear that GW is run by the seat of their pants. Maybe if they ran a tighter ship they could plan ahead properly and would not have this problem.

It is more fun this way. GW "accidentally leaks" stuff from time to time. (Usually hints. The GK codex leak was probably not them.) With these leaks, people get excited and speculate, probably more than if they just said, "hey, new stuff coming soon. Here is what it will look like." Then there is stuff like the DE stuff. I know that there are new things coming, but there is no real news about it.

This being said, I would actually really like to see GW release concept are with the announcement of releases. Or at least sell a book of it. I love that stuff.


Finally, slightly off topic, but slightly on. Does anyone else hope that GW continues to release those youtube videos about the army releases like they did with DE?