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How about when they misled people over the Space Hulk release? They had their 'secret' box of toys and wouldn't tell anyone what was in it. But most suspected Space Hulk because rumours had been doing the rounds for a while. But apparently this secret box contained something "new" that "hadn't been done before". So some people thought well it *could* still be Space Hulk even though that doesn't match up with the teasers being given. "It's not Space Hulk" they said pointing to the "new and not done before" bit.

So a bit later on people are pretty convinced it has to be Space Hulk, but some are hoping for something else really groovy, because GW wouldn't lie to us right? Wrong. It was Space Hulk after all. Done *twice* before. lolz.

And the best bit was the way it was released, they bungled the 'big reveal' on the Gamesday and instead circulated the release details via email on the following Monday.

Grakmar wrote:GW does let you know what's in the works. I'm convinced 90% or so of these "rumors" are just viral marketing by GW.

Anyone who cared to has know about GK for months and months now. And, we're fully aware that SoB and Necrons are in the pipeline.

As for why they choose to do things this way... you'd have to ask a marketing person.

^This. They probably don't "officially tell you so they don't have to worry about an "official" release date or approximate timeframe to hold up. Plus, they're probably wanting to let us think that we're clever. Maybe they do that to brainwash us to buy more models. MAYBE PEOPLE ON DAKKA ARE SECRETLY GW EMPLOYEES!

/conspiracy theory

You're right.. I work for GW's secret department in charge of releasing secrets

I will give you 100% facts about the upcoming release if you PM me.. Dont ask GW if I work there as they will never admit to using secret operatives

GW's Next Release Clue

There is a clue in that picture.. There is a red shirt somewhere in there (Watch out for fakes) with pre-release information crucial to your interests.. You must find and interrogate him

Worglock wrote:

pixelpusher wrote:

The third hat guesses that smarter people than you and me are in charge of GW's marketing and will act accordingly to what's best for the company. But hey, who knows? They might take random knowitbests from the internet like you and me and have them run marketing?

I'm not doubting that smarter people than me tend to run companies. I -am- doubting that those people always act in the best interest of the company. (Reference: current global financial issues).


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geordie09 wrote:

This is exactly the reason...

The sales for Grey Kngihts would have been nil for the last three months if they had informed customers of the new releases. It always comes back to the same thing with GW. Every thread on every forum that questions their motivation need just be answered with the following caption copied and posted into every reply.

£££ AND $$$

Who says that the sales of GK hasn't been nil for the last 3 months anyway? Who says it hasn't been nil for longer because the army has been perceived as "squatted"?

I know far more people that have sold or tried to sell their GK armies in the past year (3) than I know people that have bought GK anything (0).

And yes, you're going to wave your hand and dismiss my post as "anecdotal".

no, but the facts remain that there will be hundreds of GK armies now that they are plastic kits anyway. I'll counter, if you were a GK fan and wanted to begin a new army with no sign of plastic kits or new codex on the horizon you'd think, maybe ill spend my money on Blood Angels, or something else when it was released. Now GK are out and you've spent your gaming budget on Marines with nipples!

I can't actually believe that were still discussing the mind set of GW after all these years. "Show me the money"

The fact that there will be hundreds?

How can you claim something that is speculative as fact?
Man I wanna borrow your crystal ball or tea leaves or whichever form of divination you use.

Gonna win that lotto and still not buy a Porsche!

filbert wrote:Actually, Lanrak summed it up quite succintly in one of the other frequent threads that crop up about GW business practice:

Lanrak wrote:
Just looking at the financials for GW in the mid to late 1990s.

When GW supported all thier games (board and SGs,) and 40k was a large skirmish game of 2nd ed.
1995 to 1998, GW plc turn over rose from 30 to 60 million pounds!
DOUBLED their turn over in 3 years.(When they focused on gamers and game support.)

After the 'rushed hatchet job' of 3rd ed 40k ,turn over growth slowed down a bit, 60 million to 78 ,million from 1998 to 2000.
GW turn over rose from 78 million to 98 million at the start of the LoTR 'bubble,' 2000 to 2001.

GW plc period of greatest growth was when they actively supported and promoted a wide range of games to appeal to a wide range of gamers.

Since GW plc has declared it self to be '...in the business of selling toy soldiers to kiddies...' they have lost sales volumes year on year.
And now even their massive price increases can not make up the shortfall in sales volumes.

GW plc are in serious trouble , they can not make the radical changes required to secure long term growth without loosing short term revenue.

TTFN.

Falling sales has been an issue for GW long before the Global Financial crisis. This problem has thus far been masked firstly by the so-called LOTR bubble and subsequently by a round of cost-cutting and price hikes, but as anyone will tell you, this is not a sustainable model for growth.

You realize that if you have a dollar to your name,and you're walking down the street and you find another dollar,then you've just doubled your money? It doesn't mean you're well off,it just means you have a good financial growth rate.

It's much easier to show a good growth rate when you're a small company with relatively little. It's substantially easier to double 30 million than it is to double 60 or 90 million,especially in a niche industry like the hobby/gaming industry.

The other issue with this entire discussion is that most of us Dakkaite's are not looking at the issue objectively. Most of us[myself included] want to know what GW has in the pipe,so we try to rationalize their current financial downturn as it's because of a lack of teasers and such,and not because of numerous other possible factors[like their failed retail chain,for example]. When you walk into an analysis and already have your conclusion,then you're really not being objective.

I heard from an informed source that he thinks that GW keep their release pipeline secret because they dont want other miniature companies to find out what they are working on. For a few years there were too many coincedental releases by rival companies (Reaper is one) that mirrored GW's current product output. Around '07 or so GW tightened up their security quite a bit.

GW's release pipeline is pretty long. Their releases are planned two to three years ahead of time.

There are two aspects to the discussion, Whatever.
There is the part that is about cash and profits and sales.

And there is the part that is about communication, public relations and goodwill.
The latter is more subjective by nature and imho this is the aspect that needs addressing here.
The question is, why don't GW provide information about forthcoming releases?
There has still not been a convincing reason, other than they can and it is good for shareholders.

That is probably true Snurl, but the same or longer for other products and the companies can give some details out months in advance.

Am still unconvinced the policy is necessary

There are even other companies out there using GW's IP that seem to understand that Prevews = Buzz. Relic and FFG do a nice number of previews of their upcoming products - be they demos, showing off at trade shows (something GW refuses to attend), and even designer diaries on their own websites.

Works well for them.

Maybe it's because they don't want you to stop spending now in order to save for something coming out much later?

I think it is to get old stuff of the shelf because GW will not sell old stuff at a lower price because then the new stuff wouldn't sell at all. So, they need to make a as much profit off it that they can, then release to stuff to make more profit. Its really simple; Okay models from last edition are about to updated but people don't know for sure. Anyone who regularly buys stuff for that army still will, then they release new stuff so the person keeps buying and GW gets rid of left overs.

That might be the thinking Mewith.

As an example, does anyone know when the old DE stopped being stacked on GW's shelves?
They were not that popular from what I could make out.
People were waiting for the new Codex and minis before they would buy.
GW possibly didn't shift that many old models for yonks before the makeover.
Even the GW possibly did not shift a lot of volume ditto SoB at the moment with more expensive metal figures.

So it may not have hit sales that much to have officially announced a GW telease for March at the beginning of the year.
With development taking years it would be complex but surely within the capabilities to phase things out and make announcements for provisional release.

Perhaps they should?

Ouze

Another brick to this wall of silence( mind its a big brick) is that GW releases schedule is soooooooo slow that it means that your army of election will be with barely no news for errrr 2 or 4 years some cases even more ( not mentioning marine armies)...
So they have a biz model based on secrecy, no clues for your army for years... does this seems to be a smart move for this kind of hobby related company?
I know I know videogames also take years to develop, movies etc but the big diference is that your investement is very low comparatively and the product is like chewing gum, you eat it and trow away... 700euros armies are not fast thrills and are huge investments in comparison ( would be a better comparison to make this a console and HDtv vs GW army comparison).

I leave you guys this question, does this momentum splash releases lures you to start another GWarmy? Maybe thats another factor that drives Marketing actions at GW.

Personally I love tyranids and we got some nice kits but 3 or 4 years gaps and sometimes the splash releases are huge deceptions wich makes even the most hardcore tyranid lover uninterested and kind of fed up.
In short the effects of the marketing silence, no publicity, saturation of one kind of infos on splashes ( to the point you dont want to look at news anymore) kills my maintenance with GW...

Sure they have their own reasons and we can speculate about some, confirm others but you dont have to be a marketing expert to know that you want SOME long therm costumers as your target and that this model of recycle (expurgating most customers every 4 year cycle) is only desirable if you dont relly on costumers as your only source of publicity and if your products are like chewing gum.


Many companies have a diferent aproach and they have a very agressive release shedule, giving goodies to all factions many times a year and lets be totally honest here with a bit of originality you can keep people interested without revealing much... black gobbos, PP little artwork puzzle, PP sneaks concept arts, PP stats contests... you name it... the fact is IMO GW just are not interested in keeping people on board.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:The fact that there will be hundreds?

How can you claim something that is speculative as fact?
Man I wanna borrow your crystal ball or tea leaves or whichever form of divination you use.

Gonna win that lotto and still not buy a Porsche!

How many people play this hobby? Enough to justify my use of language as there will be hundreds...

As for that crystal ball, the image is clearing... oh yes, its yet another pedantic git on dakka...

lol
Was only joshing Geordie.
Was a turn of phrase that amused is all

But as you do happen to have a crystal ball and it is gettring warmed up, would you be so kind as to PM me tonight's winning lotto numbers please!


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Going back to your question, tbh I have no idea how many people play 40k.
Of those that do what percentage will be buying GK and continue to collect and play them seriously?

Ouze wrote:

Perhaps they should?

We need an "owned" Ork-moticon

Now I'm wondering wtf happened in late 2004 that caused GW to plummet.

themocaw wrote:Now I'm wondering wtf happened in late 2004 that caused GW to plummet.

They stopped making LOTR films.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:lol
Was only joshing Geordie.
Was a turn of phrase that amused is all

But as you do happen to have a crystal ball and it is gettring warmed up, would you be so kind as to PM me tonight's winning lotto numbers please!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going back to your question, tbh I have no idea how many people play 40k.
Of those that do what percentage will be buying GK and continue to collect and play them seriously?

I think that the trend for 40k codex books to top the previous release for crazy/die hard/next to unstoppable rules will see plenty of people collect the gk's. Whether its a prolonged collection for them I'd imagine it'll only be hardcore gk players who stick it out. The rest will leap onto the next superdex that is released. And, in line with the thread topic, we will never find out what it is or when it'll be released until they decide the timing is right for their marketing managers.

In fairness this must be so else GW are not gonna bother getting out of bed in the mornings.
It would be interesting to know how many people play 40K
Sadly the question was not asked on the current census.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:There are two aspects to the discussion, Whatever.
There is the part that is about cash and profits and sales.

And there is the part that is about communication, public relations and goodwill.
The latter is more subjective by nature and imho this is the aspect that needs addressing here.
The question is, why don't GW provide information about forthcoming releases?
There has still not been a convincing reason, other than they can and it is good for shareholders.

That is probably true Snurl, but the same or longer for other products and the companies can give some details out months in advance.

Am still unconvinced the policy is necessary

GW does provide information about upcoming releases. It's just that it's 2 months ahead of time instead of 1 year+ ahead of time like most of us would like.

The thing that I don't understand is why people feel put off because GW doesn't announce what they're doing 1+ years ahead of time.

For example,I drive Ford's[just like my father and my grandfather]. I've never purchased a car made by another manufacturer. Should I be angry at Ford because they haven't sent me an e-mail with their plans for their 2013 model line,then? Most of us would say that's an irrational emotion,and we're talking about a purchase as major as a car,not toy soldiers. I don't understand the sense of entitlement to this information from GW that other people have,and thusly don't understand why they get upset about it.

I've been a GW customer since the launch of 3rd ed 40k in '98. I currently have 5 armies,and I've had a total of 7 different armies. My expectation from GW is that they provide a quality product equal to the price I'm paying for it,and if there's and issue,they rectify the situation. By and large,I have gotten my money's worth in enjoyment out of their products,and the two times I had an issue with missing parts in a blister/kit,they fixed it quickly and with no cost to me and no hassle. That's not saying I think GW is perfect,because it's certainly not,and it definately has room to improve in several areas,IMO[fluctuating power levels between codex writers and slowness in getting mini's produced/armies updated are at the top of my list],but I get what I expect as a customer out of GW when I purchase their products.

I realize that GW used to be a lot looser with their plans,and that's built up a sense of entitlement within the community,but I personally feel it's silly. For example,in one of my former workplaces,we would order Jimmy John's subs on occassion. Also,on occassion,Jimmy John's would show up with some free subs for everybody. Pretty sweet,right? That helps build up that goodwill you were talking about,obviously. Then,we stopped getting free subs when a new manager took over the store. Now,there's two ways I could look at the situation. First,I could be passive aggressive and not buy Jimmy John's and complain to anybody that would listen to me about them,or I could come to the understanding that I had no right to free subs to begin with,that it was very nice of them to give us free subs in the past,and that they still make a good sub for the money and get Jimmy John's.

Grakmar wrote:GW does let you know what's in the works. I'm convinced 90% or so of these "rumors" are just viral marketing by GW.

Anyone who cared to has know about GK for months and months now. And, we're fully aware that SoB and Necrons are in the pipeline.

As for why they choose to do things this way... you'd have to ask a marketing person.

I agree a bit. Keeping things vague also keeps the rumor mill going and GW releases the subject of threads all over the internet.


Simply...it keeps people talking about GW.

It is not about entitlement though, that is overstating the point. There is a fair and legitimate question, why do GW choose to not to make announcements, and prefer to wrap releases up in secrecy?

It is not irrational to want to be kept informed so as to make purchasing decisions. That to me seems very reasonable. Snap buying new shiney stuff that has been kept under wraps is irrational.
If development is 2-3 years as stated it cannot be beyong the wit of good organisational skills to make a provisional announcement in advance.

I am fairly new to GW. So the comment about how they may have acted in the past is not relevant in my case.
However, coming from other hobbies where firms do widely publish up an coming products, and have even been known to delay release when it has been pointed out there is a fault with the test shot (though by no means is this always the case) then I am frankly perplexed to see GW behave in the manner in which the do.
Quite frankly it is the acceptance of business practices, that would not be tolerated in other sectors, is irrational.

As a customer I do however feel entitled to being treated as an adult, even if I am buying toy soldiers.

With respect your analogy of the Ford is not really valid. If you go to the Ford website I would be surprised if future projects are not to be found.
Futhermore I would expect there to be a facility for email newsletters including new products if you wanted them.
What is it about GW discussions and bloody motorcar analogies!

there you go
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/FutureVehicles/Overview/mdp=i1204953017896
http://www.automotive.com/future-cars/01/ford/index.html
Sure there will be similar for the US market

The question still remains unanswered.
Why do GW not stop playing games and just tell us wassup Doc?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is not about entitlement though, that is overstating the point. There is a fair and legitimate question, why do GW choose to not to make announcements, and prefer to wrap releases up in secrecy?

It is not irrational to want to be kept informed so as to make purchasing decisions. That to me seems very reasonable. Snap buying new shiney stuff that has been kept under wraps is irrational.
If development is 2-3 years as stated it cannot be beyong the wit of good organisational skills to make a provisional announcement in advance.

I am fairly new to GW. So the comment about how they may have acted in the past is not relevant in my case.
However, coming from other hobbies where firms do widely publish up an coming products, and have even been known to delay release when it has been pointed out there is a fault with the test shot (though by no means is this always the case) then I am frankly perplexed to see GW behave in the manner in which the do.
Quite frankly it is the acceptance of business practices, that would not be tolerated in other sectors, is irrational.

As a customer I do however feel entitled to being treated as an adult, even if I am buying toy soldiers.

With respect your analogy of the Ford is not really valid. If you go to the Ford website I would be surprised if future projects are not to be found.
Futhermore I would expect there to be a facility for email newsletters including new products if you wanted them.
What is it about GW discussions and bloody motorcar analogies!

there you go
http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/FutureVehicles/Overview/mdp=i1204953017896
http://www.automotive.com/future-cars/01/ford/index.html
Sure there will be similar for the US market

The question still remains unanswered.
Why do GW not stop playing games and just tell us wassup Doc?

Ford's US site does not have links to future products[at least not so far as I can find]. Your Ford UK link isn't working for me,currently. The US and UK markets are different,and what works in one market will not neccessarily work in the other. Your second link is to a third party,the equivalent of what Dakka is to GW.

Ultimately,your question has already been answered. It's not best for GW's buisness,or at least not what's best for them as determined by their marketing staff,executives,and shareholders.

As for an informed decision,GW shows pictures of their models at least a month in advance under it's preorders section. A month isn't long enough to look at a model and decide whether to buy it or not based on it's aesthetic value and/or in-game abilities[if the book for the model is available]?

The issue with sharing more information with the consumers is that it only builds goodwill towards the company so long as the consumers are hearing what they WANT to hear. Delays tick customers off,and when stuff is announced well in advance,it costs GW money. For example,GW comes out and says "We're currently focusing on Tau and plan to have them ready for a Q4 2011 release." People who are planning a Tau army decide to hold off on buying them until Q4. However,problems happen,and Tau become the 40k version of "Nuke Nukem Forever,"and get pushed back over and over again for a variety of reasons. Then instead of being mad at GW for not giving them the information,they are mad at GW for MIS-information,complaining along a variety of tangents like "Tau got pushed back for more Spesss Mahreens AGAIN!" People who could be happily playing with Tau armies and making money for GW are instead po'd with the wait and/or waiting to see if Tau get squatted or not while not buying anything. Not to mention the fact that their competitors can beat them to the punch with similarly themed products,or worse yet,beat them to the patent/copyright office. "Bootleg" companies,like Chapterhouse,for instance,will be able to their own versions of the Dreadknight or whatever ready to drop when the GK codex does.

Another issue is that you keep saying why shouldn't GW be more free with their information,but not really giving much of an argument as for why they should.

Re Ford
Market differences are irrelevent to the point.
The point is that the future products are on the web if you want to see what they are up to
Third party interviews with Ford engineers who aren't threadtened with the sack.

Ultimately,your question has already been answered. It's not best for GW's buisness,or at least not what's best for them as determined by their marketing staff,executives,and shareholders.

Q: Why is the sky blue.
A: Because it is.

Okay now I understand



A month in advance is not long enough if I have just spent my budget on a book and models that become obsolete.

Kirasu wrote:You're right.. I work for GW's secret department in charge of releasing secrets

I will give you 100% facts about the upcoming release if you PM me.. Dont ask GW if I work there as they will never admit to using secret operatives

GW's Next Release Clue

There is a clue in that picture.. There is a red shirt somewhere in there (Watch out for fakes) with pre-release information crucial to your interests.. You must find and interrogate him

Now, in all seriousness, does it really seem THAT ridiculous that maybe they like to have a little fun with the ignorance of the masses?

Whatever1 wrote:
Ford's US site does not have links to future products[at least not so far as I can find]. Your Ford UK link isn't working for me,currently. The US and UK markets are different,and what works in one market will not neccessarily work in the other. Your second link is to a third party,the equivalent of what Dakka is to GW.

Pretty easy to find if you actually look for it. Go to Ford.com, look to the left side of the screen and scroll down to the bottom, under vehicles it's the 3rd link from the bottom...aptly entitled "Future Vehicles".......There's even a 2013 vehicle there but then that doesn't support your argument so we'll just quietly ignore that.

The sky is blue because of the high (about 1/3) level of Oxygen in the atmosphere. O2 and O3 (ozone) skatter light of wavelength 475 nm, while absorbing other wavelengths of light (i.e. other colors). Thus, the only light that gets through the atmosphere to reach our eyes is Blue, giving the sky a blue hue.

I used to do some video game reporting, including covering Blizzard. The two companies are fairly similar -- they have long development cycles, they're at the pinnacle of their respective industries, and they have very strong IP as the central pillar of their products.

Yak already gave two good reasons for GW's secrecy, but I'd posit another -- paranoia. If you're not familiar with how Blizzard's press releases work, they basically go this way -- they invite several media types to the campus / convention, give out some scripted answers, and then refuse to ask about anything outside of a very narrow scope. I asked Mike Morhaime (Blizz CEO) once why this was, and his answer was simple -- they worry that, if they tip their hands too much, a competitor will pounce on their idea / setting / mechanic and release something similar before their game came out.

I'd imagine that GW has a similar fear. They'd rather have their competitors -- in this case, mostly dozens of small-market molders and sellers -- scrambling to catch up with the new tech in a new codex, rather than anticipating it and having models ready to go when the codex launches. Similarly, they'd rather see their copy-cat competitors with faster release cycles reacting to their rulesets, rather than anticipating and improving on them before release.