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im2randomghgh wrote:They couldn't, they are almost psychic pariahs

Not even close. They have weak souls, yes, but they are nowhere NEAR Blank or Pariah status.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
They are less brutal, only attacking planets that are either a threat to them or that they need for their sphere-expansions, whereas the IoM attacks planets solely because there are xenos on it.

Whats the real difference between the Imperium and Tau in this statement? The Tau attack planets to conquer and take the planet. The Imperium attack planets in order to conquer planets and take them. Both sides do it because they want to expand, so what the Imperium is wrong for expanding but Tau expansion is alright?

The only difference is the way in which they expand and how they handle aliens, thats it.

Mr Nobody wrote:I think the Tau are there to set the meter on what's good, Tau are their to say this is what counts for nice in 40k.

So you are saying that a lighter form of fascism is good. The Tau are a somewhat lighter form of fascist seeing as they say that all sentient beings must stop doing their own things that do not benefit the Greater Good and focus on the greater good, which is essentially fascism seeing as a person must put set aside all individualism and do everything for the greater good.

I bolded the part where you basically gave up and contradicted everything you had said.

The IoM rarely, if ever, expands at this point. That died with the GC, now they can barely maintain their borders. They attack planets simply because stuff lives there and "must be exterminated"

How they treat aliens. There is an enormous difference there. The kroot and Vespid are held in very nearly as high regard in Tau society as, well, Tau. The only reason that the kroot are treated as slightly inferior is because they eat...everything. But the Tau respect them and try to help them overcome their barbarous habits.

Codex Tau 4e wrote:It is a great compliment that the fire caste regard Vespid Stingwings as skillful and reliable allies

They genuinely want to treat everyone well, but are not willing to become underlings themselves, and it is this firm sense of patriotism that makes them refuse to bow to anyone (although I am interested in seeing what would happen when/if they meet the craftworld Eldar)

They are the least fascist it is possible to get. This is how left-wing right-wing works: too far to the right, you become fascist (Nazis, KKK etc.) on the opposite end of the spectrum, left-wing extremists become communists. The Tau are so thoroughly communist it is actually a bit amusing that you thought they weren't.

I also bolded the part where you defined communism.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
They are less brutal, only attacking planets that are either a threat to them or that they need for their sphere-expansions, whereas the IoM attacks planets solely because there are xenos on it.

Whats the real difference between the Imperium and Tau in this statement? The Tau attack planets to conquer and take the planet. The Imperium attack planets in order to conquer planets and take them. Both sides do it because they want to expand, so what the Imperium is wrong for expanding but Tau expansion is alright?

The only difference is the way in which they expand and how they handle aliens, thats it.

Mr Nobody wrote:I think the Tau are there to set the meter on what's good, Tau are their to say this is what counts for nice in 40k.

So you are saying that a lighter form of fascism is good. The Tau are a somewhat lighter form of fascist seeing as they say that all sentient beings must stop doing their own things that do not benefit the Greater Good and focus on the greater good, which is essentially fascism seeing as a person must put set aside all individualism and do everything for the greater good.

Read a thread I created especially a post I created recently with evidence of Tau "benevolence".

Their are no good guys in 40k only shades of evil.

That's my point, that's the nicest thing you'll find in 40k, everything else is downhill from there.

I don't feel 40k is as grimdark as it used to be. Back in Rogue Trader it was more of a cyberpunk dystopia. They borrowed quite a bit from Moorcock, but that didn't really take off until the 90s (where a lot of comic book/fantasy/etc. media overall had a very cynical bent).

Nowadays, I think 40k has crossed straight into the campy territory. It's hard to take it with any level of seriousness since it's all just so goofy. I think this is mainly due to the demystification of the background material with the awful Horus Heresy books, as well as the Matt Wardian over-the-top WWF pro-wrestling machismo crap that has plagued the 5th edition fluff.

The Tau look down on the Kroot as barbarians and mind control the Vespid. I hardly would consider that treating them as equals.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
They are less brutal, only attacking planets that are either a threat to them or that they need for their sphere-expansions, whereas the IoM attacks planets solely because there are xenos on it.

Whats the real difference between the Imperium and Tau in this statement? The Tau attack planets to conquer and take the planet. The Imperium attack planets in order to conquer planets and take them. Both sides do it because they want to expand, so what the Imperium is wrong for expanding but Tau expansion is alright?

The only difference is the way in which they expand and how they handle aliens, thats it.

Mr Nobody wrote:I think the Tau are there to set the meter on what's good, Tau are their to say this is what counts for nice in 40k.

So you are saying that a lighter form of fascism is good. The Tau are a somewhat lighter form of fascist seeing as they say that all sentient beings must stop doing their own things that do not benefit the Greater Good and focus on the greater good, which is essentially fascism seeing as a person must put set aside all individualism and do everything for the greater good.

I bolded the part where you basically gave up and contradicted everything you had said.

The IoM rarely, if ever, expands at this point. That died with the GC, now they can barely maintain their borders. They attack planets simply because stuff lives there and "must be exterminated"

How they treat aliens. There is an enormous difference there. The kroot and Vespid are held in very nearly as high regard in Tau society as, well, Tau. The only reason that the kroot are treated as slightly inferior is because they eat...everything. But the Tau respect them and try to help them overcome their barbarous habits.

Codex Tau 4e wrote:It is a great compliment that the fire caste regard Vespid Stingwings as skillful and reliable allies

They genuinely want to treat everyone well, but are not willing to become underlings themselves, and it is this firm sense of patriotism that makes them refuse to bow to anyone (although I am interested in seeing what would happen when/if they meet the craftworld Eldar)

They are the least fascist it is possible to get. This is how left-wing right-wing works: too far to the right, you become fascist (Nazis, KKK etc.) on the opposite end of the spectrum, left-wing extremists become communists. The Tau are so thoroughly communist it is actually a bit amusing that you thought they weren't.

I also bolded the part where you defined communism.

I haven't given up anything up. If you are right in what you say then what planets has the Imperium just shown up and killed the species that resided their for no reason in recent warhammer 40k history. I know your going to say Tau but the Imperium were going to kill the Tau because they wanted the planet which is essentially expansion.

Heres some more:

Macharius. Warhammer 40,000 wiki wrote:Macharius was the Lord Commander Solar, the chief military commander of the Imperium's Segmentum Solar and one of the High Lords of Terra who is also perhaps the most famous commander of the Imperial Guard. He undertook the Macharian Conquests, also called the Macharian Crusade, of 392-399.M41, which in only seven standard years added nearly 1,000 new worlds to the Imperium at the very edge of the Milky Way Galaxy.

Calixis sector. Warhammer 40k wiki wrote:The Calixis Sector is a sector of the Milky Way Galaxy that serves as the setting for the Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy role-playing game, which focuses on the actions of Imperial Inquisitors and their chosen Acolytes and Throne Agents. The Calixis Sector is an Imperial sector located in the Segmentum Obscurus on the northern edge of the known galaxy, near the Halo Stars and the Eye of Terror. To the trailing edge of the galaxy, the Calixis Sector is bordered by the hazardous territories of the Fydae Great Cloud and to spinward by the Scarus Sector. Bordering to coreward of the galaxy, its nearest neighbour is the Ixaniad Sector. To rimward lie the contested and unregulated Imperial frontiers of the Halo Stars where humans and xenos mix in the quest for power and profit. Conquered by Lord Militant Angevin for the Imperium of Man a thousand years ago in the 40th Millennium during what became known as the Angevin Crusade, the Calixis Sector contains many heavily populated and important worlds, though it lies a great distance from the Imperium's core sectors. The sector's first Imperial Sector Governor was Drusus, one of Angevin’s most capable generals, a man now revered as a Saint of the Imperial Cult.

As for the Tau being communist their are somewhat but the thing that prevents them from truly being called communist is their caste system and they are somewhat fascistic or at least thats how I feel and Deathwatch and other sources support me. But compared to the Imperium they are amateurs.

a simple summary of fascism wrote:"(Fascism) as a political science, the... state's nature is superior to that of the sum of the individuals comprising it -- individuals exist for the state, rather than the state existing to serve them. The resources that individuals provide from participating in the community are conceived as a productive duty of individual progress serving an entity greater than the sum of its parts. Therefore, all individuals business is the state's business, and the state's existence is the sole duty of the individual."

"For the Greater Good!" is a lot like "For the Emperor" as well as a "For the Fatherland"

After getting into 40k, I ask myself what is life and how infinitely better our lives are compared to the beings (human) in the 40k universe. They have no hope, they have no say and they will never be free. A good job is the boring repititive task in the Administratum and that is for the lucky few. The majority of the others live in inhumane conditions and lead worthless lives. There's more, they are under a constant threat they are not even vaguely aware of, both from the chaotic forces of Chaos and the possibility that Necrons sleep under your planet's surface. Grimdark? Its so much more.

Melissia wrote:The Tau look down on the Kroot as barbarians and mind control the Vespid. I hardly would consider that treating them as equals.

They view the Kroot as barbarians, but they still treat them well, as they hope to ride them of their habit of [b]eating their comrades[/i]

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
They are less brutal, only attacking planets that are either a threat to them or that they need for their sphere-expansions, whereas the IoM attacks planets solely because there are xenos on it.

Whats the real difference between the Imperium and Tau in this statement? The Tau attack planets to conquer and take the planet. The Imperium attack planets in order to conquer planets and take them. Both sides do it because they want to expand, so what the Imperium is wrong for expanding but Tau expansion is alright?

The only difference is the way in which they expand and how they handle aliens, thats it.

Mr Nobody wrote:I think the Tau are there to set the meter on what's good, Tau are their to say this is what counts for nice in 40k.

So you are saying that a lighter form of fascism is good. The Tau are a somewhat lighter form of fascist seeing as they say that all sentient beings must stop doing their own things that do not benefit the Greater Good and focus on the greater good, which is essentially fascism seeing as a person must put set aside all individualism and do everything for the greater good.

I bolded the part where you basically gave up and contradicted everything you had said.

The IoM rarely, if ever, expands at this point. That died with the GC, now they can barely maintain their borders. They attack planets simply because stuff lives there and "must be exterminated"

How they treat aliens. There is an enormous difference there. The kroot and Vespid are held in very nearly as high regard in Tau society as, well, Tau. The only reason that the kroot are treated as slightly inferior is because they eat...everything. But the Tau respect them and try to help them overcome their barbarous habits.

Codex Tau 4e wrote:It is a great compliment that the fire caste regard Vespid Stingwings as skillful and reliable allies

They genuinely want to treat everyone well, but are not willing to become underlings themselves, and it is this firm sense of patriotism that makes them refuse to bow to anyone (although I am interested in seeing what would happen when/if they meet the craftworld Eldar)

They are the least fascist it is possible to get. This is how left-wing right-wing works: too far to the right, you become fascist (Nazis, KKK etc.) on the opposite end of the spectrum, left-wing extremists become communists. The Tau are so thoroughly communist it is actually a bit amusing that you thought they weren't.

I also bolded the part where you defined communism.

I haven't given up anything up. If you are right in what you say then what planets has the Imperium just shown up and killed the species that resided their for no reason in recent warhammer 40k history. I know your going to say Tau but the Imperium were going to kill the Tau because they wanted the planet which is essentially expansion.

The Great Crusade. Though this WAS expansion, one of it's primary objective was to eradicate all xenos in the galaxy. Remember the Megarachnid? They fought them just cuz.

As for the Tau being communist their are somewhat but the thing that prevents them from truly being called communist is their caste system and they are somewhat fascistic or at least thats how I feel and Deathwatch and other sources support me. But compared to the Imperium they are amateurs.

a simple summary of fascism wrote:"(Fascism) as a political science, the... state's nature is superior to that of the sum of the individuals comprising it -- individuals exist for the state, rather than the state existing to serve them. The resources that individuals provide from participating in the community are conceived as a productive duty of individual progress serving an entity greater than the sum of its parts. Therefore, all individuals business is the state's business, and the state's existence is the sole duty of the individual."

"For the Greater Good!" is a lot like "For the Emperor" as well as a "For the Fatherland"

The Tau are super communist. They are often referred to as the "space commies". The castes have nothing, or very little, to do with social structure. They different castes are different sub-species of Tau. The air caste are taller than humans but are super lanky: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-AIR-CASTE-PILOTS.html

The fire caste are the strongest Tau, being as physically powerful as a guardsman.

The water caste originally lived in the water, and are very streamlined and similar in build to humans but shorter and weaker.

The Earth caste have a more modest build, but have better motor functions and (one can assume) intelligence for their purpose.

Ethereals. Nuff said.

Communism Definition: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single political party. That Political Party would be the Ethereals.

I think 40k as more gimbleak than grimdark.

Mr Nobody wrote:I think 40k as more gimbleak than grimdark.

It really depends, and I also think it might be desensitization. The first wh40k related thing I ever did was read storm of iron (before even realizing there was a TT game) and I thought this was just about the most apocalyptic thing imaginable. Now that I am used to the warhammer40k universe, I don't see these things as being quite so grimdark.

I originally pictured Astartes as monstrous freaks who smash apart worlds as if they were insubstantial. I pictured Astartes as being 15 feet tall, and being completely 100% immune to all regular infantry, no matter how many there were. I imagined them being unstoppable. I pictured titans being as tall as mountains, I pictured terminators as being the equivalent of not only tanks, but super-heavies. I pictured them being true angels of death, or rather demons/monsters of death. Everything was just shades of darkness. Humanity was doomed. Now that I know more, it is so very, very much less.

im2randomghgh wrote:They view the Kroot as barbarians, but they still treat them well, as they hope to ride them of their habit of [b]eating their comrades[/i]

Which just proves how naive (or just plain stupid) they are and how much they're trying to force their culture on everyone else just like... everyone else does.

This is the kroot method of reproduction and genetic variance. It's like an Ork asking a human to stop having sex because it creeps him out. It's not gonna happen and the human probably just finds it amusing.

im2randomghgh wrote:The Tau are super communist. They are often referred to as the "space commies".

They're called "Space Commies" as a jab at their whole being "space asian-stereotypes" thing.

The castes have nothing, or very little, to do with social structure. They different castes are different sub-species of Tau. The air caste are taller than humans but are super lanky: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-AIR-CASTE-PILOTS.html

The fire caste are the strongest Tau, being as physically powerful as a guardsman.

The water caste originally lived in the water, and are very streamlined and similar in build to humans but shorter and weaker.

The Earth caste have a more modest build, but have better motor functions and (one can assume) intelligence for their purpose.

Ethereals. Nuff said.

Communism Definition: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single political party. That Political Party would be the Ethereals.

That's an extremely flawed definition of Communism. Pretty much the exact opposite of it, really. Communism, as envisioned by Marx, was a path to Anarchism from Victorian Industrial Capitalism. The "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" thing was basically a temporary logistics position to reorganize a stratified society into an Anarchist utopia. Of course, anyone who actually found themselves in such a position didn't actually follow through with the whole "actually practicing the ideology they preached" thing, either because of greed, the revelation that Anarchism simply doesn't work in large populations, or a combination of both.

The Tau don't fit any of that. Yeah, there's the tagline about working for the good of all, but that's more of a pseudo-humanist/nationalist platitude than a facet of communism. Further, the Ethereals aren't a political party, they're a ruler caste, like European royalty, only with actual biological reasons for it (pheremones) instead of just being an arbitrary family whose distant ancestors once did something notable like violently usurp the previous regime or have money.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The Tau are super communist. They are often referred to as the "space commies".

They're called "Space Commies" as a jab at their whole being "space asian-stereotypes" thing.

The castes have nothing, or very little, to do with social structure. They different castes are different sub-species of Tau. The air caste are taller than humans but are super lanky: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/TAU-AIR-CASTE-PILOTS.html

The fire caste are the strongest Tau, being as physically powerful as a guardsman.

The water caste originally lived in the water, and are very streamlined and similar in build to humans but shorter and weaker.

The Earth caste have a more modest build, but have better motor functions and (one can assume) intelligence for their purpose.

Ethereals. Nuff said.

Communism Definition: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single political party. That Political Party would be the Ethereals.

The Tau don't fit any of that. Yeah, there's the tagline about working for the good of all, but that's more of a pseudo-humanist/nationalist platitude than a facet of communism. Further, the Ethereals aren't a political party, they're a ruler caste, like European royalty, only with actual biological reasons for it (pheremones) instead of just being an arbitrary family whose distant ancestors once did something notable like violently usurp the previous regime or have money.

The Ethereals aren't a political party, but there simply aren't any democracies in the 41st millennium. They are the closest fit to it, as modern political science isn't meant to adequately describe the governmental methods of little grey people who will come into existence in 32,000 years (in the hypothetical, too).

They work for the greater good of all, leave all decisions to their rulers, have little to no personal posession, have a set role in society they are meant to fulfill, and FIGHT FOR THE MOTHERLAND! (not sure where that came from, but it happened, and can't un-happen)

either way, very,very communist.

And the Ethereal pheromones is not 100%, as it is said that it is speculated by the Imperium that they use pheromones.




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Melissia wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:They view the Kroot as barbarians, but they still treat them well, as they hope to ride them of their habit of [b]eating their comrades[/i]

Which just proves how naive (or just plain stupid) they are and how much they're trying to force their culture on everyone else just like... everyone else does.

This is the kroot method of reproduction and genetic variance. It's like an Ork asking a human to stop having sex because it creeps him out. It's not gonna happen and the human probably just finds it amusing.

The kroot do NOT reproduce this way. They do this to gain the traits of the fallen/prey, but it does not create new kroot.

Naive, yes. Stupid, no.

Tau: It has been 6,000 years since their cave-age and they have advanced WAY beyond human technology.

Human: It has been 2.2 million years +another 38,000 years since the beginning of our cave-age. Our technology is fail by comparison.


And as for the naivety, they way their react to problems and such is remarkably similar to how modern humans would. They are probably more like us than the IoM is.

im2randomghgh wrote:The Ethereals aren't a political party, but there simply aren't any democracies in the 41st millennium.

Except for a number of Imperial worlds...

They are the closest fit to it, as modern political science isn't meant to adequately describe the governmental methods of little grey people who will come into existence in 32,000 years (in the hypothetical, too).

Except that we can describe it quite clearly, just not in one catchy buzzword. It's an extremely nationalist state ordered around a caste system (notably one based on actual biological traits, as opposed to arbitrary delineations). Beyond that, there's no information on the specifics of their style of government, or their economy for that matter (presumably because those are complex, involved topics that the authors don't feel like researching because they know almost no one actually cares about details as unrelated to blowing things up as local politics and economics). We could probably guess it's a meritocratic technocracy, but for all we are given rank may be determined by interpretive dance offs.

They work for the greater good of all,

Humanist/nationalist.

leave all decisions to their rulers,

Authoritarian/nationalist.

have little to no personal posession,

Not actually mentioned anywhere, and is more of a stoic/ascetic trait than communist.

have a set role in society they are meant to fulfill,

Caste system, also presumably technocratic elements.

and FIGHT FOR THE MOTHERLAND! (not sure where that came from, but it happened, and can't un-happen)

Straight up nationalism.

either way, very,very communist.

Exactly none of that slots into the basics of communism, though some of the traits can be found in communist states (although no more than in non-communist states).

The closest to communism you get in 40K is probably the Exodites, seeing as how they're stone-age hunter-gatherers/horticulturalists, which, at least in humans, has meant an effectively anarchist society.

And the Ethereal pheromones is not 100%, as it is said that it is speculated by the Imperium that they use pheromones.

It's a better explanation than "they magically decided to stop their little race war and listen to these random, never-before seen outsiders who said 'it would totally be great if everyone just like, got along man, and did their part while listening to us and treating us as gods, man'," along with explaining why Farsight went rogue the second the Ethereals accompanying him were killed, and then took his forces and ran away from Tau space to where he knew they wouldn't dare send anyone after him.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The Ethereals aren't a political party, but there simply aren't any democracies in the 41st millennium.

Except for a number of Imperial worlds...

They are the closest fit to it, as modern political science isn't meant to adequately describe the governmental methods of little grey people who will come into existence in 32,000 years (in the hypothetical, too).

Except that we can describe it quite clearly, just not in one catchy buzzword. It's an extremely nationalist state ordered around a caste system (notably one based on actual biological traits, as opposed to arbitrary delineations). Beyond that, there's no information on the specifics of their style of government, or their economy for that matter (presumably because those are complex, involved topics that the authors don't feel like researching because they know almost no one actually cares about details as unrelated to blowing things up as local politics and economics). We could probably guess it's a meritocratic technocracy, but for all we are given rank may be determined by interpretive dance offs.

They work for the greater good of all,

Humanist/nationalist.

leave all decisions to their rulers,

Authoritarian/nationalist.

have little to no personal posession,

Not actually mentioned anywhere, and is more of a stoic/ascetic trait than communist.

have a set role in society they are meant to fulfill,

Caste system, also presumably technocratic elements.

and FIGHT FOR THE MOTHERLAND! (not sure where that came from, but it happened, and can't un-happen)

Straight up nationalism.

either way, very,very communist.

Exactly none of that slots into the basics of communism, though some of the traits can be found in communist states (although no more than in non-communist states).

The closest to communism you get in 40K is probably the Exodites, seeing as how they're stone-age hunter-gatherers/horticulturalists, which, at least in humans, has meant an effectively anarchist society.

And the Ethereal pheromones is not 100%, as it is said that it is speculated by the Imperium that they use pheromones.

It's a better explanation than "they magically decided to stop their little race war and listen to these random, never-before seen outsiders who said 'it would totally be great if everyone just like, got along man, and did their part while listening to us and treating us as gods, man'," along with explaining why Farsight went rogue the second the Ethereals accompanying him were killed, and then took his forces and ran away from Tau space to where he knew they wouldn't dare send anyone after him.

Communism and Nationalism are not mutually exclusive, and yet you are presenting them as such.
In fact, communist parties more often then not use nationalism to help attain popularity.

An essay I found on it: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a912579402&fulltext=713240928

And part of the definition of communism is "...property is communally or governmentally controlled..." (got that from my text-book)

As for the Pheromones, they are still unconfirmed.
Were you to see people more beautiful and full of grace (relative to the Tau) than any person could ever be, descend from heaven with no warning, and start speaking with more wisdom than all your race has, put together, and are smarter than your scientists/wiser than your diplomats/more agile than your...agile dudes/more skilled at war than your warriors, you would probably listen to what they had to say...

With Farsight, he was already an aggressive, aggressive man who had a deep hatred of orks, and without the wise, level-headed ethereals,he was an attack dog off his leash. It even went so far as to call him "undaunted" when his ethereals were killed. He was an extremist. What's there to say?

im2randomghgh wrote:Communism and Nationalism are not mutually exclusive, and yet you are presenting them as such.
In fact, communist parties more often then not use nationalism to help attain popularity.

An essay I found on it: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a912579402&fulltext=713240928

And part of the definition of communism is "...property is communally or governmentally controlled..." (got that from my text-book)

My point was that the defining traits of the Tau are neither prerequisites for communism nor exclusive to regimes calling themselves communist. Nationalism is found throughout the spectrum, and technocracy was practiced most heavily by Industrial Capitalists. Communism, however, has a number of specific defining traits, that are either absent from or unmentioned in regards to the Tau.

As for the Pheromones, they are still unconfirmed.
Were you to see people more beautiful and full of grace (relative to the Tau) than any person could ever be, descend from heaven with no warning, and start speaking with more wisdom than all your race has, put together, and are smarter than your scientists/wiser than your diplomats/more agile than your...agile dudes/more skilled at war than your warriors, you would probably listen to what they had to say...

They probably would have been killed before they could open their mouths. You have a species in the middle of a suicidal race war (meaning each group is already highly xenophobic), some funny looking outsiders show up bearing a message that everyone should forget about all their own concerns and just obey them instead, and they don't get killed outright? There's got to be something extra going on there.

No, as they are a different sub-species than the enemy. That's like if you're hunting wolves and see a squirrel, and kill it because it looks like a wolf (it doesn't, in case you haven't seen a squirrel )

Guys, can we stop posting the debate about whether the Tau are controlled by Pheromones or if they are evil or whatever in this thread and instead move it into a thread I created especially for that reason seeing as the discussion about the Tau is derailing this thread from its purpose?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Guys, can we stop posting the debate about whether the Tau are controlled by Pheromones or if they are evil or whatever in this thread and instead move it into a thread I created especially for that reason seeing as the discussion about the Tau is derailing this thread from its purpose?

This thread was here first!


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BTW Corporal_Reznov, awesome sig.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Guys, can we stop posting the debate about whether the Tau are controlled by Pheromones or if they are evil or whatever in this thread and instead move it into a thread I created especially for that reason seeing as the discussion about the Tau is derailing this thread from its purpose?

This thread was here first!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW Corporal_Reznov, awesome sig.

Thanks for the compliment about the sig. But in truth I got it form a fellow dakka dakka member called Grey Templar, asked if I could use it, told me yes.

You may be right but from what I can see its derailing this thread from talking about grimdark to Tau conspiracies. Wouldn't it be better to keep all Tau conspiracy discussion focused in one thread so as not to cause further thread hijacking as this one has suffered.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just saying!

Where is the original? I want to read the whole thing but dakka doesn't give us too much sig space

im2randomghgh wrote:Where is the original? I want to read the whole thing but dakka doesn't give us too much sig space

I'll pm it to you if you want.

Yup

Actually that grimmdark? Well...

A) Everywhere you look you have a war. Over planet, system, segmentum, race, god, everything....

B) Even if you live on some back-water world - you will be caught in it in some time of your life.

C) Humanity want's to purge galaxy of aliens, aliens wants to purge the galaxy of Humans - and other aliens.

D) Even when you fighting evil and wining - you are feeding evil just to do more bad things in the galaxy.

G) There is no high tech, no internet, no freedom of speech, no personal transportations ( cars ), no free newspaper, not even your own thought ( Inquisition see all, then Chaos, then C'tan, then everyone else )

D) The day you join in the army is the day you will probably finish your life - or soon enough.

The only nongrimdark thing is that you have a LOT of chicks ( after all, there are untold trillions of Humans out there... ). And you can have a lot of fun and a lot of children, anyway why not? In the end they will all end up in meat grinder or be slaves to some sick pointy ear guy.

Hope this answer your question...

Brother Coa wrote:Actually that grimmdark? Well...

A) Everywhere you look you have a war. Over planet, system, segmentum, race, god, everything....

B) Even if you live on some back-water world - you will be caught in it in some time of your life.

C) Humanity want's to purge galaxy of aliens, aliens wants to purge the galaxy of Humans - and other aliens.

D) Even when you fighting evil and wining - you are feeding evil just to do more bad things in the galaxy.

G) There is no high tech, no internet, no freedom of speech, no personal transportations ( cars ), no free newspaper, not even your own thought ( Inquisition see all, then Chaos, then C'tan, then everyone else )

D) The day you join in the army is the day you will probably finish your life - or soon enough.

The only nongrimdark thing is that you have a LOT of chicks ( after all, there are untold trillions of Humans out there... ). And you can have a lot of fun and a lot of children, anyway why not? In the end they will all end up in meat grinder or be slaves to some sick pointy ear guy.

Hope this answer your question...

...qua...quad...QUADRILLIONS OF CHICKS! BOOYAH!

Brother Coa wrote:Actually that grimmdark? Well...

A) Everywhere you look you have a war. Over planet, system, segmentum, race, god, everything....

B) Even if you live on some back-water world - you will be caught in it in some time of your life.

It's significantly rarer than war on modern Earth, taking the sheer scale of things into account. A country with 6% of the land on Earth and 4% of the population is currently involved in three wars (which also involve forces from other NATO countries, though I don't feel like looking up the total population of all relevant countries and whatnot), and maintains a military presence in countless other countries. Almost every Imperial world goes untouched for generations, centuries, or millennia, and only the smallest fraction of worlds is actively engaged in a conflict at any given time.

C) Humanity want's to purge galaxy of aliens, aliens wants to purge the galaxy of Humans - and other aliens.

The Imperium largely ignores aliens that aren't deemed an existential threat to humanity, and certainly doesn't bother with non-sentient xenos, even aggressive, hazardous ones (aside from enterprising merchants trying to find a use for them). The Ordo Xenos keeps tabs on them, but military expeditions out of Imperial space to deal with Xenos are limited to those that pose a perceived threat, while ones that don't are just added to a "to do" list and largely forgotten.

D) Even when you fighting evil and wining - you are feeding evil just to do more bad things in the galaxy.

It's debatable whether the ruinous powers meaningfully benefit from the scale of conflict in the Milky Way. It depends on whether the warp is still considered to be as universal and dimension-spanning as it used to be, in which case they're being fed from every galaxy, in every dimension, so whatever happens in the Milky Way is just a drop in an ocean for them.

G) There is no high tech, no internet, no freedom of speech, no personal transportations ( cars ), no free newspaper, not even your own thought ( Inquisition see all, then Chaos, then C'tan, then everyone else )

a) There are local networks akin to the internet on some worlds; b) there are personal transports of varying description based on the world in question; c) the only restrictions on speech are on a local level, or restricted to those things which pose an existential threat to anyone who knows about them, as well as anyone in their general vicinity; d) the C'tan see nothing; e) neither Chaos nor the Inquisition listens to everyone's thoughts (now Ravenor could, but didn't, for the very good reason of "there's too much junk data to search through").

D) The day you join in the army is the day you will probably finish your life - or soon enough.

That's from a single novel, referring only to the warzone it described, and is contradicted by every single other novel regarding the Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Guys, can we stop posting the debate about whether the Tau are controlled by Pheromones or if they are evil or whatever in this thread and instead move it into a thread I created especially for that reason seeing as the discussion about the Tau is derailing this thread from its purpose?

I was debating whether or not to copy over what I'd written here, but it seemed like that discussion had moved past the "are Tau communist?" thing.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Actually that grimmdark? Well...

A) Everywhere you look you have a war. Over planet, system, segmentum, race, god, everything....

B) Even if you live on some back-water world - you will be caught in it in some time of your life.

It's significantly rarer than war on modern Earth, taking the sheer scale of things into account. A country with 6% of the land on Earth and 4% of the population is currently involved in three wars (which also involve forces from other NATO countries, though I don't feel like looking up the total population of all relevant countries and whatnot), and maintains a military presence in countless other countries. Almost every Imperial world goes untouched for generations, centuries, or millennia, and only the smallest fraction of worlds is actively engaged in a conflict at any given time.

C) Humanity want's to purge galaxy of aliens, aliens wants to purge the galaxy of Humans - and other aliens.

The Imperium largely ignores aliens that aren't deemed an existential threat to humanity, and certainly doesn't bother with non-sentient xenos, even aggressive, hazardous ones (aside from enterprising merchants trying to find a use for them). The Ordo Xenos keeps tabs on them, but military expeditions out of Imperial space to deal with Xenos are limited to those that pose a perceived threat, while ones that don't are just added to a "to do" list and largely forgotten.

D) Even when you fighting evil and wining - you are feeding evil just to do more bad things in the galaxy.

It's debatable whether the ruinous powers meaningfully benefit from the scale of conflict in the Milky Way. It depends on whether the warp is still considered to be as universal and dimension-spanning as it used to be, in which case they're being fed from every galaxy, in every dimension, so whatever happens in the Milky Way is just a drop in an ocean for them.

G) There is no high tech, no internet, no freedom of speech, no personal transportations ( cars ), no free newspaper, not even your own thought ( Inquisition see all, then Chaos, then C'tan, then everyone else )

a) There are local networks akin to the internet on some worlds; b) there are personal transports of varying description based on the world in question; c) the only restrictions on speech are on a local level, or restricted to those things which pose an existential threat to anyone who knows about them, as well as anyone in their general vicinity; d) the C'tan see nothing; e) neither Chaos nor the Inquisition listens to everyone's thoughts (now Ravenor could, but didn't, for the very good reason of "there's too much junk data to search through").

D) The day you join in the army is the day you will probably finish your life - or soon enough.

That's from a single novel, referring only to the warzone it described, and is contradicted by every single other novel regarding the Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Guys, can we stop posting the debate about whether the Tau are controlled by Pheromones or if they are evil or whatever in this thread and instead move it into a thread I created especially for that reason seeing as the discussion about the Tau is derailing this thread from its purpose?

I was debating whether or not to copy over what I'd written here, but it seemed like that discussion had moved past the "are Tau communist?" thing.

The Americans are a poor example of this, as they are the most pro-war of any nation currently on earth. They have had military conflict with every region on earth, minus Antarctica/Oceania. No offense to americans, it is just a bad example since there are 267 nations on earth and about 245 of them are at peace...

im2randomghgh wrote:The Americans are a poor example of this, as they are the most pro-war of any nation currently on earth. They have had military conflict with every region on earth, minus Antarctica/Oceania. No offense to americans, it is just a bad example since there are 267 nations on earth and about 245 of them are at peace...

But those are still wars, involving a population that comprises 4% of that of the Earth, as well as their allies, in addition to the countries the wars are taking place in or otherwise impacting. The Imperium doesn't face anywhere near that level of conflict. For instance, the very worst hivefleet the Imperium's seen has only impacted around .02% of Imperial territory, and that's considered an unprecedented catastrophe.

Also, the US has invaded Oceania a number of times, and still controls territory in it.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
It's significantly rarer than war on modern Earth, taking the sheer scale of things into account. A country with 6% of the land on Earth and 4% of the population is currently involved in three wars (which also involve forces from other NATO countries, though I don't feel like looking up the total population of all relevant countries and whatnot), and maintains a military presence in countless other countries. Almost every Imperial world goes untouched for generations, centuries, or millennia, and only the smallest fraction of worlds is actively engaged in a conflict at any given time.

Which back me to my other question, why then those 70% of Imperial worlds that are in peace ( to say ) don't send Regiments of Guard to help stabilize the frontiers of the Imperium? And US are poor example of this, as is our planet. We know almost 100% of the surface ( oceans are explored to some 5% thus far ), how much knowledge Imperium alone has about galaxy ( do not include players who read alien codexes )?

The Imperium largely ignores aliens that aren't deemed an existential threat to humanity, and certainly doesn't bother with non-sentient xenos, even aggressive, hazardous ones (aside from enterprising merchants trying to find a use for them). The Ordo Xenos keeps tabs on them, but military expeditions out of Imperial space to deal with Xenos are limited to those that pose a perceived threat, while ones that don't are just added to a "to do" list and largely forgotten.

That's true, but still attack are not stooping - they are increasing. And their strategy of largely forgotten is not good strategy at all, in years they can grow into serious threat ( like the Tau ) and then Imperium will just have one more enemy to fight.

It's debatable whether the ruinous powers meaningfully benefit from the scale of conflict in the Milky Way. It depends on whether the warp is still considered to be as universal and dimension-spanning as it used to be, in which case they're being fed from every galaxy, in every dimension, so whatever happens in the Milky Way is just a drop in an ocean for them.

We don't know that, we only know about our galaxy and that's it. But the fact remains, when you fight Chaos Gods you are actually giving them power. Someone wrote on this forum long ago that: "When you kill someone in rage, you are feeding Khorne. When you thinking about tricking your enemies or simply flank them - You are feeding Tzeentch."

a) There are local networks akin to the internet on some worlds; b) there are personal transports of varying description based on the world in question; c) the only restrictions on speech are on a local level, or restricted to those things which pose an existential threat to anyone who knows about them, as well as anyone in their general vicinity; d) the C'tan see nothing; e) neither Chaos nor the Inquisition listens to everyone's thoughts (now Ravenor could, but didn't, for the very good reason of "there's too much junk data to search through").

Some worlds, like the great hive worlds. Not like Internet is spread like today and I really doubt that they have Facebook or YouTube there...
And I can't imagine the traffic in city of 32.000.000.000 people. I live inj city with 2.500.000 people and still I have to wait 45 minute to cross the bridge...
For speech is true, also it is forbidden to tell "I like Tau" or "Inquisition can suck my..." - you know what I mean...
What about Outsider, story said that everybody hear a thought in their heads when he is around. And Chaos daemons whispering in your ear when you are sleeping. And Inquisitors that can read minds on a city level? It's not true that they hear nothing, especially Chaos Gods whose realm is build from Human emotions... And I have read about the Inquisitors hear what people say while having dinner, and they live some few kilometers away...

That's from a single novel, referring only to the warzone it described, and is contradicted by every single other novel regarding the Guard.

A.....no.... It's just common knowledge when you start life in the Guard - you finish it in the Guard. Never hear about great number of Guardsman in pension, or that they serve the army and then go home. I can swear that 90% of people who enlist in the Guard never return, and when I see enemies they face - my fact is not far from truth ( I was not referring to "15 hour", I was referring to IG in general ).

And you didn't say anything about lot's of women in the galaxy