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Anvildude wrote:It's not the prices online, it's the information thing (and yes, I know about Paypal. I'm a strange person, and I have my quirks. Everyone does).

They can steal your information no matter where you are, online or off. That guy behind the counter can take your CC info just as easily as someone online.

Well, of course you can find people online to play with, but guess what, I learned about Dakkadakka from *Gasp!* my FLGS!

Guess what? You find MORE people online then any single FLGS will ever hold. You'll find them all over, especially meetups, players looking for players and many other things. That your FLGS told you about dakka shows you were looking hard enough.

In any case, there are some things that FLGS have that Basement gaming does not, and vice-versa. I do believe, however, that there are very, very few things Basement gaming has, that a proper FLGS doesn't. Mine has an abundance of well-made terrain, many, many tables, a lot of great people, painting tables, it stocks not only GW, but PP, Chainmaille, and other games, and even sells food, plus allows you to bring your own (and since it's in a plaza with a DQ, Wendy's, Chinese place, etc., that's pretty nice.) Not to mention the 'official' tournaments every weekend, for cash prizes.

Again, your being silly. WE have quite a bit of well made terrain, home made boards, our own painting stations at home, lots of great people....more and better food especially with summer BBQ season here, Beer, plus other things. Plus the ability to shop in my bunny slippers on any product I want without getting in the car, cheaper to boot with no tax. plus we can pick up and go to any tournment we want, not some crappy one that your store has every week if we choose.

Your cariature of what basment gamers DONT have over what a FLGS does is laughable in the extreme. I laugh at you.

Anvildude wrote:It's not the prices online, it's the information thing (and yes, I know about Paypal. I'm a strange person, and I have my quirks. Everyone does).

I'm going to guess you've never really thought about what could happen to a credit card when the waiter takes it for payment at a restaurant.

I stop and fill my car up with gas.

The guy that takes my payment leaves work---on the way home he buys a sub from Subway.

The guy that sells him the sub, goes home and buys a used video game on Ebay.

The guy that sold him the video game on Ebay, uses that money to buy a Warmachine model.

The guy that sold the Warmachine model, uses that money to buy a used Land Raider on Ebay.

The guy that sold the Land Raider, uses that money to buy Lord Draigo from Games Workshop.




Why can't I escape Games Workshop's monopoly on the world?

Because you pay for your gas.

GazzyG wrote:If you don't want to give money to GW, there's no need to. Plenty of other outlets to get the models from.

You know, it all of a sudden occurs to me that to really live this principle, the way to do it is with an army of all-alternate models. Nothing by GW. Does anyone out there have such an army? I'd love to see pics! I've seen it talked about more times than I can count, but I can't say I've actually seen it.

I have a small number of models from other lines in my Ork Army (Deffdreads are actually Cybertronic Deathdroids from Warzone because I really think they look like Orks!). But that really doesn't forward the cause. What about an entire army made from alternate publishers?

True, GW stores wouldn't probably let you play them, but not all of us play at GW stores.

Solorg wrote:

GazzyG wrote:If you don't want to give money to GW, there's no need to. Plenty of other outlets to get the models from.

You know, it all of a sudden occurs to me that to really live this principle, the way to do it is with an army of all-alternate models. Nothing by GW. Does anyone out there have such an army? I'd love to see pics! I've seen it talked about more times than I can count, but I can't say I've actually seen it.

I have a small number of models from other lines in my Ork Army (Deffdreads are actually Cybertronic Deathdroids from Warzone because I really think they look like Orks!). But that really doesn't forward the cause. What about an entire army made from alternate publishers?

True, GW stores wouldn't probably let you play them, but not all of us play at GW stores.

This is exactly what I'm doing. Once I finish painting my Word Bearers, I'm moving on to a Vampire Counts army consisting entirely of Mantic Undead, Gamezone (those Mournful Knights are just incredible) and Malifaux stuff. Mantic's undead range covers every main line unit as well as some characters and more special stuff, and is consistent in the quality and age of the sculpts, as opposed to what happens when you sit a new grave guard model next to a GW black knight. Eww. In short, Mantic provide the masses of quality plastic minis I need for the bulk of the army, and I can source specialist units (blood knights, varghulf, etc.) from just about any company with a suitably gothic undead range. Hell, I might just start playing KoW sometime - after all, the rules come free with Mantic's army sets.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I stop and fill my car up with gas.

The guy that takes my payment leaves work---on the way home he buys a sub from Subway.

The guy that sells him the sub, goes home and buys a used video game on Ebay.

The guy that sold him the video game on Ebay, uses that money to buy a Warmachine model.

The guy that sold the Warmachine model, uses that money to buy a used Land Raider on Ebay.

The guy that sold the Land Raider, uses that money to buy Lord Draigo from Games Workshop.




Why can't I escape Games Workshop's monopoly on the world?

Excellent! Just one question: where does Kevin Bacon fit in to these six degrees of separation?

He's the guy that bought the land raider.

@Carmachu:

Just out of curiosity, do you really think that your "basement gamer" experience is typical of most peoples'?

I'll tell you that I have never been to a home game that comes close to what you're describing you have. Myself, I don't have either the space or inclination to create that type of gaming environment at my own home, but I have tried gaming at the home of several of my friends.

I started playing GW in 1988, and I had played games like D&D since 1978, so I can honestly say that I've been to a lot of different homes to play lots of different games in that time period. The home gaming system that I have seen that had the most gaming tables had two tables. That guy still owns that home and still plays. They have somewhat decent terrain, but nothing special. The best table system I have seen at a home game was a complete custom table that was beautiful, but didn't have much ability to change the terrain around.

For the most part (I would say over 90% of my home-gaming experience over the last 25 or so years), home systems have a single table with a modicum of so-so level terrain.

I've also found that, in my experience, there are just as many "stinky" gamers with poor social skills in private settings as anywhere else. In fact, I can think of a couple of occasions where I think the owners of the home were less inclined to shower before gaming because they weren't leaving their own home. I'm only guessing on the motivation, but I'm certain about the hygiene.

Anyway, my only point is that I really think that your experience with "basement gaming" is far different than the norm. I do believe that your experience shows what the best experiences can be with a good group of motivated individuals to drive the quality of the experience, and I commend you for that. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything remotely like what you describe in the entirety of my gaming lifetime.

Saldiven wrote:@Carmachu:

Just out of curiosity, do you really think that your "basement gamer" experience is typical of most peoples'?

There's no way to tell. You can see how many people come to stores, but folks like myself whom dont bother, well, how will you know?

I'll tell you that I have never been to a home game that comes close to what you're describing you have. Myself, I don't have either the space or inclination to create that type of gaming environment at my own home, but I have tried gaming at the home of several of my friends.

I started playing GW in 1988, and I had played games like D&D since 1978, so I can honestly say that I've been to a lot of different homes to play lots of different games in that time period. The home gaming system that I have seen that had the most gaming tables had two tables. That guy still owns that home and still plays. They have somewhat decent terrain, but nothing special. The best table system I have seen at a home game was a complete custom table that was beautiful, but didn't have much ability to change the terrain around.

For the most part (I would say over 90% of my home-gaming experience over the last 25 or so years), home systems have a single table with a modicum of so-so level terrain.

I've also found that, in my experience, there are just as many "stinky" gamers with poor social skills in private settings as anywhere else. In fact, I can think of a couple of occasions where I think the owners of the home were less inclined to shower before gaming because they weren't leaving their own home. I'm only guessing on the motivation, but I'm certain about the hygiene.

Anyway, my only point is that I really think that your experience with "basement gaming" is far different than the norm. I do believe that your experience shows what the best experiences can be with a good group of motivated individuals to drive the quality of the experience, and I commend you for that. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything remotely like what you describe in the entirety of my gaming lifetime.

I could point to at least three different game stores that have either crappy amount of tables, since space is limited, or bad terrain. Hell Dash's last tournment with his DE, the terrain was pretty crappy. What I have lying around in my basement bins is better than the unfinished terrain I saw in pictures.

But the reality is YOU get out of the experience what you put into it. Your basement games suck because you or your friends arent willing to devote the time and effort to the terrain and tables. It doesnt happen over night. Terrain doesnt make itself. boards dont get built by miracles.

carmachu wrote:
I could point to at least three different game stores that have either crappy amount of tables, since space is limited, or bad terrain. Hell Dash's last tournment with his DE, the terrain was pretty crappy. What I have lying around in my basement bins is better than the unfinished terrain I saw in pictures.

But the reality is YOU get out of the experience what you put into it. Your basement games suck because you or your friends arent willing to devote the time and effort to the terrain and tables. It doesnt happen over night. Terrain doesnt make itself. boards dont get built by miracles.

Very true, and the same can be said of the experience at the FLGS. I'm lucky enough to be in an area where the most prominent FLGS has a very strong club with a large number of dues-paying members. Consequently, there is a wonderful amount and variety of terrain that is kept, for the most part, in good repair. Honestly, I think one of the main reasons that i am not inclined to do more home gaming stuff (besides the small size of my apartment) is the good quality of the local store. Why should I put all the time and money into making a system at my home, when I can pay $18.00 per year to a club that owns and maintains 15+ tables and sufficient terrain to use all of the simultaneously? That club also happens to be located at an FLGS that serves food and gives discounts to club members. This has come about because of cooperation between the owner of the store and the officers in the club.

Now, I'll agree that this FLGS experience is far from the norm. I feel really lucky to have this store available to me as a place to play games and just hang out. I've been to plenty enough FLGS to know that this store is atypical. We do have a few power gamers and socially challenged individuals who come to the store, but blessedly few hygenically challenged folks. Overall, though, the experience is always positive for me, and I probably stop by the store 2-3 times per week.

Hell, I don't even have to pay to go to my FLGS and play some 40k. Just, every Saturday, show up with an army, and you'll find a game and a table. The store itself has an employee who's job is to create and upkeep the terrain- we've got a brilliant snow table, desert table, forest, various grassed tables, and even a City Fight table, completely covered in roads and buildings, plus a ton of detailed and playable (flat surfaces, wide enough ledges and gaps) movable terrain pieces, matched to table schemes. They're even building a brand-new table in the back.

And the other players are all brilliant. Fun, knowledgeable, and willing to help you out.

Bookwrack wrote:He's the guy that bought the land raider.

Nope. Kevin Bacon is Draigo - because he gets done!