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I've been reading the posts here lately and I just want to air a thought out. Im sure this has been said one way or another but this is my take on it.

GW will always have the players by the cojones

by the berry bush

by the saggy and wrinkly

before you flame the heck out of me hear me out:

With all the stuff that GW has been perpetrating on the fanbase for years I've heard a lot of people say that theyre going to do the right thing and "vote with their wallets!"

Yay! Good on ya mate!

"we will only buy second hand or from third party suppliers!"

Wait...what?

The logic behind this thinking is that people who dont buy directly from GW will not be feeding money to the all devouring machine and thus weaken it and hopefully weaken enough to knock it back to sensibility. What they fail to think about though is where those suppliers and second hand sellers are getting their stuff from. Do these 3rd party suppliers have an endless supply of GW stuff that they grow from trees?

Right.

No matter where you buy your stuff from, GW will always have money coming in as long as people play the game. GW's game 40k is so deeply rooted that GW really isnt in danger of losing any of the number of players that keep its dark heart pumping. What we see here is GW just trying to grab MORE. You can try killing its hydra heads like the embargo but as long as you feed the hungry monster one way or another you aint doing squat.

its like getting mad when a hydra head snaps at us but we turn and throw another steak down the gaping maw.

So what WILL affect GW so much that theyll have to pay attention to what the fans need?

The answer is the simplest yet the hardest thing to do.

Stop playing.

...and ive lost most of you haven't I? To hurt GW significally you have to stop promoting the game, stop playing the game, stop carrying the game. Stop being the advertisement for the game. When someone asks you what youre playing say "Ex Illis" or something.

But the thing is, no one wants to do that at all. "I've invested so much in the game"... "40k is still a darn good game"...

Things will get worse from here. They will do doucheier things. They will push as much as they can. And when the fans are at their limit, when the fans can't take no more, when GW sees that the hydra body is getting thin...they'll lift the embargo or release a new edition. And the fans will be thankful.

and thats why GW will always have you by the balzac.



Am I going to get banned for this?

You have the idea right.

However, remember that if people switch from buying from GW direct, to 3rd party only, it does hurt GW. Not as much as quitting entirely, but it does.

yep it hurts as much as cutting a hydra head off...

What you've said is true. Most people who complain won't completely drop GW so they don't really care.

However people are leaving. Not many but each time they do it more people quit and less newcomers will start. Eventually they will get to the stage when people can't afford to start and that is what gives GW its money.

People can boycott GW without stopping playing. Once i've finished my last army that will be it for me, but I don't plan on stopping 40k. I'll just play with other models or my current armies. The most i'll buy is maybe a codex or rules. I'm not the only one either- I'm a member of the largest gaming club in the area and I have seen a massive decline in GW games ove the last 6 months. GW treating customers like **** does make people enjoy the game less.

@4m2a

20 bucks says that decline changes once DE codex hits

Bakerofish wrote:@4m2a

20 bucks says that decline changes once DE codex hits

You know the DE codex already "hit", right? It is out right now.

i meant necron sorry

either way 4m2a can get his twenty bucks when he flies down here

Ok i'm i'll be booking the flight when the book is announced. I have enough models to field a good sized army of any of the factions I wish to play. Any other models I need can be from other manufacturers. As I said the most I will need is a codex or rule book and knowing GW this won't be common.

I don't see the point in impulse buy GW stuff. Can get equally good models for half the cost elsewhere.

@ Bakerofish

I agree with everything you wrote in your OP, 100%

And I have stopped feeding the Hydra

All the whole "only buying discounters" does is hurt the LGS. It doesn't affect GW very much at all, as they make the majority of their money selling to wholesalers anyway. Most local stores offer a discount to customers anyway (I know we do), so why not just support them if you plan on only buying discount anyway. I never understood the draw from buying from the GW website anyway, customer service is far better in a good LGS

Well folks, you dont really have to stop playing GW games, you just have to stop buying new stuff. Every game you play using what you currently own gives GW no money. Its only when you buy new product they make money.

If you need more stuff, buy it used from ebay or various swap sites/forums.

Also, dont feel too bad buying in stock items from independent retailers...they have already payed GW for the product...so not buying it just hurts the retailer and not GW. Of course if the retailer uses that money to restock GW stuff, then it does support them...so whatever...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sergeant Horse wrote:I never understood the draw from buying from the GW website anyway, customer service is far better in a good LGS

Well, In my case...GW ships almost right away, my LGS stocks almost nothing and takes several weeks to get in an order.

I buy almost all of my GW from select ebay sellers...Ive found a few highly reliable ones that offer good discounts (average 20%) and ship very quickly. If I order on monday or over a weekend I have my product by thursday or friday.

Side note...I was totally blown away today...I ordered a set of MK III armors from FW on the 11th (last wed), they arrived here to me in the US today. Less than a week for a tiny order.

Mad4Minis wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sergeant Horse wrote:I never understood the draw from buying from the GW website anyway, customer service is far better in a good LGS

Well, In my case...GW ships almost right away, my LGS stocks almost nothing and takes several weeks to get in an order.

I buy almost all of my GW from select ebay sellers...Ive found a few highly reliable ones that offer good discounts (average 20%) and ship very quickly. If I order on monday or over a weekend I have my product by thursday or friday.

Side note...I was totally blown away today...I ordered a set of MK III armors from FW on the 11th (last wed), they arrived here to me in the US today. Less than a week for a tiny order.

thats why I said GOOD LGS really, people should demand better customer service from brick and mortar stores, and not let them drag their heels. We try our hardest to be good to our customers, because I would expect that myself from a store I frequented. In return however, I do expect a certain amount of loyalty from my customers, which I am lucky to have. Its give and take (When I do an order, it takes 3 days, no shipping required ). Obviously if a store is not giving enough, it doesn't deserve your business. But if one does, you should help it as much as possible, because THAT is where you will get new players from. Ebay sellers don't really help much, the base margin they buy from GW is no different from a B&M, so you don't hurt by buying from them, all you hurt is the local store which helps promote the game, and other games and increasing the player base, host events etc.

Oh look, it's one of these posts again.

Reoccurring troll is reoccurring.

Worglock wrote:Oh look, it's one of these posts again.

Reoccurring troll is reoccurring.

The irony here is so thick you'd need a chainfist to get through it.

As for the OP... he's right. I was fully planning on starting up a Dark Eldar army over the summer. I probably will still do it, but I'll be hunting for the best bargains I can find on Ebay.

Apparently it hits a nerve


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wouldn't an actual rebuttal make more sense than a one liner so that you can explain your side? That's how discussions happen

bartertown, swap shop here. Dont have to buy anything ever. Not even second or third hand.

I play in my basement with friends. FLGS suck anyway.

carmachu wrote:

I play in my basement with friends. FLGS suck anyway.

I feel bad for you, how do you find new opponents or armies?

Sergeant Horse wrote:

carmachu wrote:

I play in my basement with friends. FLGS suck anyway.

I feel bad for you, how do you find new opponents or armies?

Well,don't feel "bad" for him...there's actually much to be said for simply gaming at home among a select group of friends,for one you avoid a lot of the more negative aspects of gaming at FLGS'.
Plus if you have 6-10 friends who play,and your skills are constantly developing,you always have an opponent to play...and a varitey of armies to play against.

Oh sure, it can be fun, but you would find that with the same opponents all the time, you will find you face the same lists over and over, and once you work the tactics required to win, it can become samey. Not saying it's a bad thing, but people should always be open to new venues

Sergeant Horse wrote:Oh sure, it can be fun, but you would find that with the same opponents all the time, you will find you face the same lists over and over, and once you work the tactics required to win, it can become samey. Not saying it's a bad thing, but people should always be open to new venues

That's true,I just find that with a large enough group of friends,particulary if they own more than one army,that "sameyness(?)" doesn't become to much of a problem.
Of course,when your friends show up with "new players" that's always a big plus.

infinite_array wrote:

Worglock wrote:Oh look, it's one of these posts again.

Reoccurring troll is reoccurring.

The irony here is so thick you'd need a chainfist to get through it.

But it's not "rain on your wedding day" level irony.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sergeant Horse wrote:
Wouldn't an actual rebuttal make more sense than a one liner so that you can explain your side? That's how discussions happen

Maybe if it was worthy of discussion. But it's not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sergeant Horse wrote:Oh sure, it can be fun, but you would find that with the same opponents all the time, you will find you face the same lists over and over, and once you work the tactics required to win, it can become samey. Not saying it's a bad thing, but people should always be open to new venues

If they only have one army with no options to switch out then yes. How many people are really like that? Probably not that many. I know everyone in the small group of people that I'm actually inclined to play a game with have far more than one 1500 point army.

Sergeant Horse wrote:

carmachu wrote:

I play in my basement with friends. FLGS suck anyway.

I feel bad for you, how do you find new opponents or armies?

Save your pity. We have more then a few oppponents. anywhere from 6 to 12 from the old club. PLus we know many many people in various other clubs. We do various things from beer and pretezels to tournment ramp up.

Again, FLGS suck royally. I feel bad for you having to play in them.

Ha, jokes on GW. I made most of my army myself. I ain't paying no one! Well, maybe 70 bucks to GW for codices and two kits. Though if I were more comfortable with ebay, it probably wouldn't even have been that.

3000 points, less than $100. Beat that.

FITZZ wrote:

Sergeant Horse wrote:

carmachu wrote:

I play in my basement with friends. FLGS suck anyway.

I feel bad for you, how do you find new opponents or armies?

Well,don't feel "bad" for him...there's actually much to be said for simply gaming at home among a select group of friends,for one you avoid a lot of the more negative aspects of gaming at FLGS'.
Plus if you have 6-10 friends who play,and your skills are constantly developing,you always have an opponent to play...and a varitey of armies to play against.

Exactly. Its not just one or two folks. Its half a dozen to a dozen depending who is around. Everyone has played for a long while with multiple armies- mostly painted, some not buit working. We dont have any TFG or smelly folks. We can drink if we feel like it. And hell in another month or two we're having a BBQ playing day.

Hell of alot better then playing in a FLGS. We'll go, or not to a FLGS for a tourney, in fact some guys are feeling their oats and want to get back into the curcuit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sergeant Horse wrote:Oh sure, it can be fun, but you would find that with the same opponents all the time, you will find you face the same lists over and over, and once you work the tactics required to win, it can become samey. Not saying it's a bad thing, but people should always be open to new venues

*snort* maybe thats what you find at your FLGS, but no, we dont face the same lists over and over again. Sad what kind of picture you have of folks playing in basements. We were doing that long before FLGS had play areas.

Right....well thankfully,my flgs doesn't have a TFG, or smelly people....what we have is class terrain,great opponents, good food, private gaming rooms etc. I'm not knockinghowyou play mate,just sayingthatbyyou commenting "flgs suck", your limiting yourself unnecessarily. I do find it sad that your experiences have led to that view though.

Bakerofish wrote: You can try killing its hydra heads like the embargo but as long as you feed the hungry monster one way or another you aint doing squat.

its like getting mad when a hydra head snaps at us but we turn and throw another steak down the gaping maw.

So Games Workshop is the Hydra and therefore the Alpha Legion!

They're rather blunt, though.

Lord Castellan wrote:

Bakerofish wrote: You can try killing its hydra heads like the embargo but as long as you feed the hungry monster one way or another you aint doing squat.

its like getting mad when a hydra head snaps at us but we turn and throw another steak down the gaping maw.

So Games Workshop is the Hydra and therefore the Alpha Legion!

They're rather blunt, though.

They are the Alpha and the Omega!!!! I R Alpharius....

The only thing worse than having to shell out $60 for a fething tank would be GW going out of business, and people being stuck with $10,000 worth of plastic figures. Let's be honest: you don't really want to hurt GW too much. Save money where you can and put up with it.

ph34r wrote:You have the idea right.

However, remember that if people switch from buying from GW direct, to 3rd party only, it does hurt GW. Not as much as quitting entirely, but it does.

That is, until GW increases the mark up they charge to those 3rd party vendors, and/or bans their ability to sell in certain markets.

Oh wait...both of those statutes will go into effect June 1st.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:The only thing worse than having to shell out $60 for a fething tank would be GW going out of business, and people being stuck with $10,000 worth of plastic figures. Let's be honest: you don't really want to hurt GW too much. Save money where you can and put up with it.

Even if GW fell flat on it's face it wouldn't mean the games would stop...hell there's plenty of "gaming ideas/fan dexes" etc floating around to keep your minis busy.