Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sergeant Horse wrote:Trying to figure out which of these is more outrageous

Truly outrageous.

Yes, these items are expensive.

I'm not sure what else there is to say about it.

I voted destors. They make up a bigger chunk of an army but they came out almost 18 months after their faction book and are STILL in metal and expensive as all. The delay is a genuine factor in this as everyone was waiting on them and assuming PP was working out the problems in their plastics that delayed the light jacks. Oh well, two of the destor thane solos works better anyway.

This thread is extremely interesting.

Through out the years of reading what warhammer player justifies the price of miniatures to be fair ( may it be the fun process , the manufacturing process , the w/e process ) everyone have seem to agree, its justified.

Then we have Warmachine. Which falls under EVERY SINGLE points raised and justified by miniature collectors. Yet suddenly all the reasoning in this thread dismissed the justifications we have come to term with.

So which leads me to think, is it just due to plain animosity of the 2 products that the denail / justification you guys have for warhammer suddenly cease to apply to warmachines?

I have 100 bucks to spend.

Long story short, the company I have some customer loyalty to gets my money.

I don't even have to begin to give reasons why PP deserves more customer loyalty than GW.

LunaHound wrote:This thread is extremely interesting.

Through out the years of reading what warhammer player justifies the price of miniatures to be fair ( may it be the fun process , the manufacturing process , the w/e process ) everyone have seem to agree, its justified.

Then we have Warmachine. Which falls under EVERY SINGLE points raised and justified by miniature collectors. Yet suddenly all the reasoning in this thread dismissed the justifications we have come to term with.

So which leads me to think, is it just due to plain animosity of the 2 products that the denail / justification you guys have for warhammer suddenly cease to apply to warmachines?

All I know is PP gets my money because I like to war game as my hobby and they treat their customers with respect. GW treats me like an idiot and I am just fed up with GW's attitude towards me.

Sergeant Horse wrote:Trying to figure out which of these is more outrageous, 5 metal blood knights for $90, or 5 Destors for $100. It seems to me that gw isn't the only company overcharging for models.....wonder why nobody complains about PP prices

Vampires. Its basically the same price as the destors, but take up a faction of your army for the money.

Sergeant Horse wrote:Trying to figure out which of these is more outrageous, 5 metal blood knights for $90, or 5 Destors for $100. It seems to me that gw isn't the only company overcharging for models.....wonder why nobody complains about PP prices

Easy , everything that made you think Warmachine is expensive, applies to GW.

Even more so when the $90 of blood knights accounts for what... small % of that army?
Atleast for Destors, its large chunk of the army already.

Next?

My PP army has 20 models roughly for a standard game. My TK fantasy army (Which I am selling) has 140 models roughly for a standard game.

Same price for the models. More models.

PP wins.

Next.

LunaHound wrote:

Sergeant Horse wrote:Trying to figure out which of these is more outrageous, 5 metal blood knights for $90, or 5 Destors for $100. It seems to me that gw isn't the only company overcharging for models.....wonder why nobody complains about PP prices

Easy , everything that made you think Warmachine is expensive, applies to GW.

Even more so when the $90 of blood knights accounts for what... small % of that army?
Atleast for Destors, its large chunk of the army already.

Next?

Your post seems to incline that you think that I DON'T think GW is overpriced.

BuFFo wrote:My PP army has 20 models roughly for a standard game. My TK fantasy army (Which I am selling) has 140 models roughly for a standard game.

Same price for the models. More models.

PP wins.

Next.

Wait wait wait. How does that work out in PP's favor?

Later: Oooooh. Whoops, read it the wrong way.

Sergeant Horse wrote:

Your post seems to incline that you think that I DON'T think GW is overpriced.

But you think that he thinks that you think.. sorry, got lost... what were we talking about?

About the OP- it's a very fair point, and that's what I've been saying lately- look at the new DE stuff and compare to other companies, and tell me that you're not getting a "good value" compared to alternatives.

Some of the prices are out of whack, but the quality of sculpts lately lead me to believe that a lot of it is actually worth it... i.e., the quality has gone up lately, which to me makes it worth the price.

I know not everyone feels this way, and there's no way I'd pay current prices for space marines. But the DE sculpts are well worth it to me.

LunaHound wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Obvious troll is obvious.

The irony of your post is amazing. The man brings up a point of discussion, which is especially relevant since he owns a gaming store, and you have to pop off.

Then lets look at this from another perspective mikhalia,

which of the 2 company do you think is the one in power to set the prices leading the miniature market?

I actually don't think either should be setting the prices. If one raises prices, the other doesn't have to, and in fact, I'd hope they'd see the wisdom of keeping theirs cheaper. Why raise prices just because a competitior does?

What I see is prices going up all the time from all companies: GW, PP, Battlefront, just to name the big ones. Tanks from BF were 8.00 and now are 12.50, so it all seems to be going up roughly the same. Adding up the costs, an army from any of the 3 is 300-600 dollars. Sure, there are ways to do it cheaper, but I never see a gamer actually do that and stop buying stuff.

The other thing that's funny is listening to ex-PP players who've switched to Malifaux or Infinity complaining about PP. Sounds just like ex-GW gamers who've swapped over to PP complaining about GW.)

Interestingly enough, while many gamers feel PP communicates far better than GW and treats them better, I actually find the GW has much better support for stores themselves.

-From GW I get monthly support to run painting classes and events, free racking worth hundreds of dollars, prizes for tournaments, advance models either free or at a nominal price. The independent GT system they built the last two years gave out a huge amount of support in terms of scenery and prize support. When I've approached them about extra support for running more events, I've had no trouble working with them. And the #1 support, they immediately ship me replacements for any damages or shortages, and I can fix a customers problem by handing them a new kit.
-PP supports pressgangers, but it's hot and cold as to whether you can get a pressganger to support your store. Store employees or myself aren't allowed to apply. When Monpoc came out we didn't have a regular pressganger, I called PP over and over for a demo kit, they told me to get a pressganger to come by, but I couldn't get one to come by for demos. I get 0 support, but I can buy league kits and tournament kits. No racks, maybe a poster now and then. Worst of all, if a customer has a problem, I get to look at them and say "sorry, call up PP and have them ship you a part". I'm not allowed to fix it and then ask PP for the part.

So from my perspective, GW supports stores better, but PP seems to have less complaining about them. Other stores may see it differently.

And I think you all like to complain a lot on the internet.

Back on topic: No one buys Bloodknights and I can't remember the last time I sold that PP cav unit. No difference between them.

Haahaa mihkaila, I refrained from saying how much I like GW store support for fear of backlash, but since you said it first,I can now. They are a great company for getting store support, and from what I hear, if a customer has a problem model, they usually replace the full kit free of charge. We do a number of events a month and they support them well in prizes, and just today I got hundreds of dollars in racking to expand the range, all for free

mikhaila wrote:Back on topic: No one buys Bloodknights and I can't remember the last time I sold that PP cav unit. No difference between them.

This wins the thread

The pressganger system is awesome when you have the support, though. There's a FLGS near me (Dream Wizards) that doesn't seem to have a lot of miniature events driven by the store owners, but has TONS driven by the press gangers. It's totally awesome.

A shame they don't support stores like GW... I have heard how good GW is about that, and that at least is a very, very good thing.

GW should be cheaper based on volume! More people buy more miniatures than PP games, this should bring the price down massively. Both prices are outrageous, GW's just more so.

Ok, maybe it's just me, in fact no, it probably is just me....but I'm confused.

On the one hand, we have Sergeant Horse and mikhaila saying they appreciate GW and the support they get. I know I'm reading into this, but from another thread mikhaila gave me the impression, that even with the price rise and the restriction on sales, he's still happy with GW and being part of their "machine".

On the other hand we have companies like Wayland Games and Maelstrom, who "appear" to be unsatisfied with GWs latest price hikes and their restrictions.

Gamers blow both ways, and to be fair don't really count, as we don't see the bigger picture.

So my question to the RETAILERS, are you guys in support of GW or not?

If you guys ARE in support of GW, then come out and say it, and help the community understand the latest changes....my god, you've got customers threatening to walk away, and while they may still shop at your stores, they won't be buying your main line product, so rather then posting these tangential threads that ultimately lead to nothing, just pitch in and ease the strain.

If on the other hand you DON'T support GW actions, then, like Wayland Games, grow a pair and make a statement. How many have gotten behind Wayland and decided to do something? or are you casually sitting back to see how Wayland get's on, and depending on how bad they are shafted (or not) then you might act....

Enquiring minds want to know.

Purely basing a price comparison on cost of material/volume of material used is a fallacy.

After all no says "hold on a minute my ford escort has way more material in it so why does my neighbours ducatti motorcycle cost more?"

Prices can only be compared on perceived value to the consumer.

Hence why people will happily pay a higher unit cost, if the total outlay is less.

For instance I invent nugas to replace gas, it costs twice as much a gallon to buy but crucially gets four times more mileage to the gallon.

So overall my total cost has halved for the same amount of driving pleasure, thus although the unit cost is higher I still perceive it to be better value.

So in wargaming terms by switching from 40k or WFB to WM. Or Infinity we still get just as much gaming pleasure, for a lower total cost, even if unit price is higher, therefore it is perceived to be better value.

As a personal comparison, things I just bought and how much it cost

Malifaux warband £50
Khador 35pt force £100
Infinity aleph force £100
Grey knight 1750 pts £280
WFB daemons 1200pts £180 (so taking that up to a full army of 2400pts that would be £360)

All these forces (the daemons only once at 2400) result in games roughly the same length, I think we can see quite a difference in total cost.

PP has from the beginning tried to be as open and interactive with their customer base a possible, and have built up a lot of good will as a result.

Some major points off of the top of my head:

1. Company owners, design studio staff, writers, etc. all frequent the PP forums regularly answering questions, and offering input

2. They allowed fan input into the latest rules edition via a public playtest and discussion

3. You can email/call them and talk to known/named individuals

4. They have regular factual and informative press releases about major events and happenings that might effect players and their wallets

5. high-level staff attend major cons and are approachable

6. They allow the warmachine Vassal to exist and be discussed on their own forums

7. They allow critical discussions of PP on the PP forums without instant locks, shutdowns and deletions. They accept negative feedback and allow it.

8. They have pledged that no model/unit will ever be made obsolete or removed from an army list. Going on ten years and they have kept to this.

9. All armies get new releases each release, and in a timely fashion: no waiting 6+ years for a new release or army book, etc. No squatted armies or models, no drastic army overhauls in a seemingly random fashion, no cryptic release schedule.

10. Game balance is such that pricey models don't equate to better/more powerful models. Also you can build armies from just the Prime wave (the oldest wave: almost ten years) and be totally competitive. In effect power creep has been minimal, so you are not forced to buy the "next big thing" to play.

11. All models come with stat/rule cards. You don't even need to buy the army books to play.


etc.

It is amazing what a little customer service, politeness, and common sense can accomplish...

PP knows that their cav is pricey. it has been discussed on their forums by them. Cav are not mandetory or needed. iF you don't want to buy them then don't. problem solved.

I try to stay away from the extremes... sometimes GW/PP/ANY COMPANY makes bad decisions but all deliver a product that I have some interest in, no point in radicalism of opinions or atitudes.

With this said and looking at this topic the " lets start a flame war" alarm is on from the first post and to that I will not reply, but there are some points I would like to talk about.

A big part of the product you buy and its value to you depends on your preception of value and how well it will fill the role.

Role of a metal miniature:
-If you are interested JUST in painting miniatures you avaluate the sculpt quality, cast, material, design and also the size amoung other things and yes the argument "its a lump of metal VS another lump of metal" is also included in this package but its not the ONLY factor .
- If you buy a GAME the Lump of metal is much more than that because now the metal miniature has a to be seen in X multiples vs one isolated item.
-If you are a collector and consider a metal sculp Art then the quantity of material has litte bearing to its preception of value... rarity, who sculpted it has more importance for the collectors

I think these are probably the mainstream roles of a metal miniature, at least the ones I remember. So its hard to identify the value of a miniature not only because people have diferent tastes but because the destination and role of a mini can be so diferent.

I get my miniatures for both painting and gamming and on rare occasions for collecting its all fun and all have diferent budgets.

So assuming the majority here buys for gamming then the lump VS lump is not the most important factor to consider the value of 1 miniature on a army of multiples... and as such the TOTAL value is measured in therms of multiples.

Both are quite expensive for just painting, cheaper on PP vs GW for gamming and are crazy expensive for the collector since these are not rare and still in production and not much art factor IMO in them ( but 99.99% of these kind of metal minis has no art to me so )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another point I forgot to add to this is that manufacturer of GAMES with MINIS do have to plan prices of all things in order that the GAME is afforfdable and profitable... So people saying infinity is just as expensive as GW are just looking at things in a very strange prespective... For you know you can play infinity for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... yeah thats right the rules are free of charge to be downloaded so its more than natural that those 10 minis you need are not the cheapest outhere

But yes you can biatch the rules translations are not crispy clear and built a castle of illusions that its as expensive has other popular systems on this thread

NAVARRO wrote:I try to stay away from the extremes... sometimes GW/PP/ANY COMPANY makes bad decisions but all deliver a product that I have some interest in, no point in radicalism of opinions or atitudes.

With this said and looking at this topic the " lets start a flame war" alarm is on from the first post and to that I will not reply, but there are some points I would like to talk about.

A big part of the product you buy and its value to you depends on your preception of value and how well it will fill the role.

Role of a metal miniature:
-If you are interested JUST in painting miniatures you avaluate the sculpt quality, cast, material, design and also the size amoung other things and yes the argument "its a lump of metal VS another lump of metal" is also included in this package but its not the ONLY factor .
- If you buy a GAME the Lump of metal is much more than that because now the metal miniature has a to be seen in X multiples vs one isolated item.
-If you are a collector and consider a metal sculp Art then the quantity of material has litte bearing to its preception of value... rarity, who sculpted it has more importance for the collectors

I think these are probably the mainstream roles of a metal miniature, at least the ones I remember. So its hard to identify the value of a miniature not only because people have diferent tastes but because the destination and role of a mini can be so diferent.

I get my miniatures for both painting and gamming and on rare occasions for collecting its all fun and all have diferent budgets.

So assuming the majority here buys for gamming then the lump VS lump is not the most important factor to consider the value of 1 miniature on a army of multiples... and as such the TOTAL value is measured in therms of multiples.

Both are quite expensive for just painting, cheaper on PP vs GW for gamming and are crazy expensive for the collector since these are not rare and still in production and not much art factor IMO in them ( but 99.99% of these kind of metal minis has no art to me so )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another point I forgot to add to this is that manufacturer of GAMES with MINIS do have to plan prices of all things in order that the GAME is afforfdable and profitable... So people saying infinity is just as expensive as GW are just looking at things in a very strange prespective... For you know you can play infinity for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... yeah thats right the rules are free of charge to be downloaded so its more than natural that those 10 minis you need are not the cheapest outhere

But yes you can biatch the rules translations are not crispy clear and built a castle of illusions that its as expensive has other popular systems on this thread

I'm not trying to be rude, but your point has been made before. While it's good to see more people avoiding the obvious yes / no answer to the question, and realising that the value of the product has to be weighed against its intended use, it sems you maybe correct at the "flame war" attempt, because the OP has refused to comment on that aspect.

In some ways, this thread seems a bit like a....let's toss a hand-grenade into the room and walk away...type thread.

Delephont wrote:
I'm not trying to be rude, but your point has been made before. While it's good to see more people avoiding the obvious yes / no answer to the question, and realising that the value of the product has to be weighed against its intended use, it sems you maybe correct at the "flame war" attempt, because the OP has refused to comment on that aspect.

In some ways, this thread seems a bit like a....let's toss a hand-grenade into the room and walk away...type thread.

Heck, guess I failed to introduce the diferences between Painters/gamers/collectors and their way to look at a lump of metal

But yes its a handgrenade type of thread but if we manage to address the interesting non flammable issues then maybe we have got the grenade pin instead of the grenade

If Ford cranks up the price on their Fiesta to $200,000, it still doesn't compare to a Lambourghini at the same price. It's simply an overpriced car.

Same applies to GW's blood knights. Increasing their price to the same as the Destors doesn't make them the same quality or value, it simply makes them overpriced.

Refused to comment is a bit harsh considering it was posted at 3am and I do like going to bed at a reasonable hour. I don't see how this is aimed at a flame war. The original post was used to start a discussion, and the majority of posts have been pretty good and non spammy. The fact that it's reached 4 pages would assume the mods think the same.

Couple points:
That person who got a 35 point khador army for 100 pounds. Did you buy it at discount? Unless your using nothing but really expensive jacks, I can't see how you didn't.

As regards to retailers. GW supports brick and mortar pretty well, but they don't like online. Therefore, whiles some of us get alot of help from them, others, like wayland that are mainly online, will not. I don't think I was pussyfooting around anything .


As regards my castle of illusions on infinity. I stock it, it's a great game. I wonder is Navarro a designer for it if so, then I'd like to reiterate that the translatio are extremely ambiguous sometimes, not a bitch about it, consider it constructive criticism. I find a lot of people on dakka don't know the difference.
But also still, if you pay $15 or so, maybe it's more I'll know when I get to work, for a Cateran....that's still a bit expensive. Compare it to Malifaux where the majority of models fall in the $7.50-$9 range


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Delephont wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:I try to stay away from the extremes... sometimes GW/PP/ANY COMPANY makes bad decisions but all deliver a product that I have some interest in, no point in radicalism of opinions or atitudes.

With this said and looking at this topic the " lets start a flame war" alarm is on from the first post and to that I will not reply, but there are some points I would like to talk about.

A big part of the product you buy and its value to you depends on your preception of value and how well it will fill the role.

Role of a metal miniature:
-If you are interested JUST in painting miniatures you avaluate the sculpt quality, cast, material, design and also the size amoung other things and yes the argument "its a lump of metal VS another lump of metal" is also included in this package but its not the ONLY factor .
- If you buy a GAME the Lump of metal is much more than that because now the metal miniature has a to be seen in X multiples vs one isolated item.
-If you are a collector and consider a metal sculp Art then the quantity of material has litte bearing to its preception of value... rarity, who sculpted it has more importance for the collectors

I think these are probably the mainstream roles of a metal miniature, at least the ones I remember. So its hard to identify the value of a miniature not only because people have diferent tastes but because the destination and role of a mini can be so diferent.

I get my miniatures for both painting and gamming and on rare occasions for collecting its all fun and all have diferent budgets.

So assuming the majority here buys for gamming then the lump VS lump is not the most important factor to consider the value of 1 miniature on a army of multiples... and as such the TOTAL value is measured in therms of multiples.

Both are quite expensive for just painting, cheaper on PP vs GW for gamming and are crazy expensive for the collector since these are not rare and still in production and not much art factor IMO in them ( but 99.99% of these kind of metal minis has no art to me so )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another point I forgot to add to this is that manufacturer of GAMES with MINIS do have to plan prices of all things in order that the GAME is afforfdable and profitable... So people saying infinity is just as expensive as GW are just looking at things in a very strange prespective... For you know you can play infinity for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... yeah thats right the rules are free of charge to be downloaded so its more than natural that those 10 minis you need are not the cheapest outhere

But yes you can biatch the rules translations are not crispy clear and built a castle of illusions that its as expensive has other popular systems on this thread

I'm not trying to be rude, but your point has been made before. While it's good to see more people avoiding the obvious yes / no answer to the question, and realising that the value of the product has to be weighed against its intended use, it sems you maybe correct at the "flame war" attempt, because the OP has refused to comment on that aspect.

In some ways, this thread seems a bit like a....let's toss a hand-grenade into the room and walk away...type thread.

At what point have I walked away?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sadly I work 11 hours a day and can only check every so often, but I reply when I can.

Yes, ok, you are allowed to sleep....but remember, theres a war going on out here!

Both Maelstrom and Wayland have a shop, so even if they do suppliment their sales by (OMG) making use of modern technology, then I don't see how GW can discriminate against them.....however, you answered my question, so fairs fair....thank you.

Regarding Infinity, it's an A++ product, and my ears seal shut whenever I hear anything bad said against them....you may discuss MERCS, but only if you say good things and promote them.....I'm sorry, but the line has to be drawn somewhere....

..insult the Queen, poke fun of the Prime Minister, you may even burn the books of my religion....but by god, never say a bad word about Infinity....man, have you no shame?

I am so sick of people complaining about how unfair prices are without ANY data backing up why they believe these prices are unfair.

Sculptors need to eat. Moldmakers need to eat. Plastic costs money. Retooling all your molds to handle 'finecast' whatevers takes money. Distribution lines cost money.

I wish, just once, they'd break all this down and shut people up. But I understand why they don't - you ever try getting Ford to explain how they price their cars or Apple to explain how they price their iPads?

Maybe there is a reason that all the miniature companies charge roughly similar prices. Go check out the coolminiornot site. There are some cheaper lines - that are generally less detailed, and there are more expensive lines.

Here are a few links:

Sedition Wars, 1 32mm figure, $23.

Hasslefree, 1 28mm figure, $9

Freebooter minis: 1 32mm figure, $19.50

Micro Art Studio; 1 28mm figure, $16

Studio McVey - 1 figure, $23

Wyrd miniatures - 1 figure, $9

Sodapop Miniatures - 1 figure, $18

Hell Dorado - 1 figure, $11

Avatars of War - 1 model, $16

Kabuki models, 1 figure, $20

Grindhouse Games, 1 figure, $12.50

Games Workshop - 1 model, $17


Really, they're not out of line for the industry. Click all those links above, I picked as close to the same size models as I could find relatively quickly. Look at the detail levels. Look at the size of the models.

"But I shouldn't have to pay so much for a toy soldier". Why not? Sculptors need to eat too. Materials cost money, distribution chains cost money. It's not like GW (or PP for that matter) are out there charging twice what anyone else is charging.

This IS the fair price for nicely sculpted miniatures.

hahaha don't worry dude, I love my Ariadna army. 12 camo markers deployed on the field

I think the main issue that both Malestrom & Wayland have though is the online restrictions which have popped up Over here you have to sign terms and conditions to not have an online shopping cart in order to receive a GW account. In Europe, laws prevent this from happening, as my brother found out when he began carrying it a few months ago. The downside is that GW will hammer thenm in other ways. Also theres the fact that I deal with GWUS, which might be more plyable than GWUK.

Hi

I posted this in a local forum some time back as part of a discussion on GW's price increase. I think it applies here

Regarding Different Prices for Different Companies:
As for GW Prices VS PP Prices VS startups (Spartan, Warlords, Mantic, etc)... they all have very different business models and pricing schemes. I immediately dismiss startups VS GW as it is comparing apples to oranges. Pricing for both of these companies is based on value, not cost of production. An aggressive pricing scheme is usually a key for entry because initially there is no value to most people for a startup item. At the right price ($50-100 entry cost, or the equivalent of a board game) people are willing to give it a try.

The GW vs PP discussion is far more interesting. PP has survived that initial establishment period, using the low cost entry model ($50-100). I would assert that as PP enters maturity any gap in pricing will disappear, if it hasn't already. I called the move to Army Books 4 years ago as the logical extension of the business model, and I think I will be right again. The value proposition of PP is nearing GWs in many markets in North America, and cost of production has nothing to do with pricing, including whether plastic, pewter, or resin are the materials involved.

I find the dreadnought VS Warjack model interesting because other comparisons don't really bear out that argument.

A standard full unit comparison:
10 Tactical Marines: $37.25 VS 6 Temple Flame Guard (32.99) + 19.99 for unit attachment + 2 x 10.99 for 4 more Flame Guard = $74.96 or $54.97 without the upgrade. If we are talking minimums, then the marine combat squad is 22.50. GW wins on value per model handily. In fact I can have two full tactical squad, or 30 ork boyz, for the cost of a completely upgraded unit.

An elite unit comparison
5 Terminators: $50.00 VS 5 Plastic Cinerators $44.99; A slight edge for PP... unless you look at the majority of PP large based units. The minimum of 4 Skorne Cetrati (my army) is 54.99. I think we can call it a draw for now, as the prices are close.

Heavy Warjacks/Beast VS Dreadnoughts
A standard marine Dread it $44 with almost all full dreads coming in close to that value, give or take $5. The Warjacks on the other hand range from 59.99 for Mulg the Ancient or Behemoth to 34.99 for the plastic kits (which are more expensive than the classic metal versions). Throw in the value pricing factor of $34.99 for an Ironclad and $49.99 for Ol'rowdy the character Ironclad, and you can see that PP is basing price on unit value to the player, not the cost of production. If you are going to play competitive War Machine, it seems to be a solid choice to take the character jack over the standard version most of the time. I would call it a draw here as well as the range in pricing is comparible. Perhaps a slight edge to PP because there are more lower cost options available, provided we leave out things like 3 killa kans for $44.50, as they would be better compared to light jacks, and are price competitive.

Characters:
This one is tough as well. A small based Farseer is $15... or Eldrad costs $20. Larger Based models like Drago is $27 while Ghazzy is $35. They are all over the place. PP is the same. Haley is $7.99 which is great! Epic Haley is $17.99. Kraye is $25.99. Terminus or Kharchev are $49.99. Again, it is a wash.

Finally, the new war engines for PP are weighing in around $85, which more expensive than a Land Raider ($62 US)!

So, in summary - GW is superior in providing low cost troops, and everything else is basically a draw, with slight edges going one way or the other on a case by case comparison.

Cheers,
Nate

where is option 3?, both are outrageous, for £55-60 I can get almost 180 models for that

Or what about the fact you can pick up a Battlegroup force for around £34. This gives you a force that you can take out of the box and play with straight away. Obviously as gamers we want more straight away but you can play a good game with that.

Closest you get with 40K is a plastic Tactical Squad for £23 and to use them on their own you have to use a hybrid set of rules, not the mainstream ones.

So in answer to you question, it's only the collecting obsession that wargamers have that makes games like Warmachine expensive, not the system.

augustus5 wrote:

This is the biggest load of garbage excuse I've ever heard. Who cares how much of a percentage a model is of your list? The bottom line is that we are comparing 5 lumps of metal to 5 other lumps of metal. You really believe that PP should charge more for their metal lump simply because their game requires fewer lumps to play? We gripe about GW's prices but PP is doing the same thing, and in many cases making an even larger profit margin because some of their players justify it in this way. I have seen Infinity defended in the same way. They charge as much or more per model as GW but people act like it's cool because it requires fewer models to play.

Except its not going to be 5 lumps of metal vs 5 lumps of metal. Context matters. I can get by with 3 lumps of PP metal, or even none. GW's 5 lumps of metal will need to be 10 sooner or later if you want more then one rank or unit.

So yes, context, and army fit, matters.