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Grim.Badger wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Now, there are two possible camps to follow.

Option A: THe meltabomb has an implied strength of 8, and against the Monolith rolls 8 + 1d6 for armor penetration.

Opetion B: The meltabomb has no strength, and since the Living Metal special rule makes all penetration strength plus 1d6, the meltabomb must add its strenght (which is 0 due to not existing), to 1d6, giving it an armor penetration of 0+1d6.

BRB Page 63 - Melta Bombs 8+2D6

They're also not AP1

So although they can glance the 'lith with their maximum roll of 14, I wouldn't bother.

Looks like someone missed the point. Living Metal won't let you roll anything else than S+D6 for armour pen. Either 8 is the strength for à meltabomb, meaning it's 8+D6, or it doesn't have a strength, meaning it's 0+D6. Either way you're not getting more than one D6.

....which the poster sort of acknowledged, by stating it has a maximum roll of 14.

The post initially seemed to be laid out in a way to contradict Chris, but didnt actially do so.

Mr Stampy my ork deffdred eats monoliths with his 4 dccws although for some reason the monoliths have started terminating him with extreme predjudice of late, otherwise i ignore it and wipe out all the nasty little warriors with boyz.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Grim.Badger wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Now, there are two possible camps to follow.

Option A: THe meltabomb has an implied strength of 8, and against the Monolith rolls 8 + 1d6 for armor penetration.

Opetion B: The meltabomb has no strength, and since the Living Metal special rule makes all penetration strength plus 1d6, the meltabomb must add its strenght (which is 0 due to not existing), to 1d6, giving it an armor penetration of 0+1d6.

BRB Page 63 - Melta Bombs 8+2D6

They're also not AP1

So although they can glance the 'lith with their maximum roll of 14, I wouldn't bother.

Looks like someone missed the point. Living Metal won't let you roll anything else than S+D6 for armour pen. Either 8 is the strength for à meltabomb, meaning it's 8+D6, or it doesn't have a strength, meaning it's 0+D6. Either way you're not getting more than one D6.

Yeah, sorry I was just saying that Meltabombs do have a strength associated with them in the rulebook - therefore would be 8+D6 against a 'Lith

I've only fielded a 'Lith a couple of times as I've not long had Necrons and nearly every time it has been popped really quickly by a lucky lascannon shot :( Mind you, I have the same problem with Land Raiders!

By hitting it very hard with something heavy and/or explosive.

Grim.Badger wrote:
Yeah, sorry I was just saying that Meltabombs do have a strength associated with them in the rulebook - therefore would be 8+D6 against a 'Lith

Technically they don't. Technically, going 100% RAW grenades have no 'strength' they just have a penetration value. None of the numbers is described as 'strength'.

It's patentedly obvious that the number you add to the 2d6 roll is meant to be the meltabombs strength, but it's not true RAW.

In short, you need something strength 9 or 10, this is why my Eldar list with its distinct lack of Fire Prisms hates them very much.

So... buy a fire prism and adapt, or try other options.

Melta is god in the current meta, but the Necrons were napping during the meeting and didn't get the memo.

You could also try taking swooping hawks to feth it up, as they can take emp grenades (glance/pen regardless with no pen roll) or wraithguard (wraithcannons -ditto).

Not sure what a D cannon would do to it. I know it has odd effects, but i've never actually had one used on my liths.

With how cheap they are, d-cannons could od the trick without putting a dent on your list building.

Problem isn't their damage, but their range. They only have 24" range. But they pen on 5+.

Yeah, might buy a D-cannon in case of Monoliths. Don't really want to buy a prism as I've got enough tanks to buy for my guard as it is.

Plus the new model is utterly sweet, especially compared to the original metal one... (and if you don't glue the gun barrel in it can swap which support weapon it is..)

The best tactic is to force a phase out, BoW did a video on this same thing went for shooting at vendettas, kill troops because troops win games, especially in objective games. 50 shots taken at a lith are 50 shots that could be getting sponged by warriors or other units that are considered "Necrons" for the purposes of the Phase Out rule.

purplefood wrote:Either ignore it completly and go for the Phase Out against the rest of his army or railgun it to death.
It is pretty difficult any other way.

You have to read dashofpepper's guide he said something about since youre shooting the necrons you can get blasted by posibly 3 monoliths which will hurt stuff pretty badly

Only if you are standing right next to them

Monoliths hard very short range guns. Pummel them from range

if you were IG or eldar/dark eldar its pretty easy, but alas your not.......Go for Phase out.

So looking forward to when Phase Out is gone, and people will have to actually win fair and square

Without phase out, there is no such thing as "fair and square" for Necrons as they are in their current codex. They're flat out overpowered without it.

But with the other adjustments that are coming with the fifth edition codex, it shouldn't be so bad.

Statline inferior to Marines and still just as sweepable without Phase Out as with it.

Vastly overcosted/ineffective units that can be done down all to easily.

WBB that can easily be denied in all sorts of ways, and is only on a 4+. FNP is in many ways superior, and many other armies got handed it out like candy.

No power weapons, squad heavy weapons, transports, long range, survivable fire support or artillery units. No additional close combat weapons or grenades (barring the Ctan and I think Wraiths, and their version is less useful if you use the wording in the codex (which you have to).

No ATSKNF, No morale rerollers, no fearless FNP Furious charging troops No infinite attack av 13 walkers with twin-wielded lightning claws...

One tank, and one expensive troop unit.

Close combat units that suck in close combat.

No plasma,melta or lance weapons to aid in tankbusting.

The only thing that could concievable be called overpowered is the Monolith, which is short ranged, slow as hades and vulnerable to being broken open (as it is too slow to run away) in CC, especially by those armies with dreads/ Thunderhammers (and similar stength doublers) or haywire grenades.

It is also breakable from range by decent guns.

Melta doesn't work on it, granted, so take something other than the ever-present meltaspam ...

Which not all armies have.

Hell, it's not just immune to melta, either. It's immune to chainfists, eviscerators, etc as well. Sisters, quite literally, have nothing that can possibly penetrate it.

What, in specific?

I guarantee every other army has more than one tank, save nids.

Most other armies have a plasma or melta effect in there somewhere (can't think of one that doesn't)

Every other army has some form of troop transport, including nids.

Every other army has more than one troop choice

odds are that every other army has at least part of the above list covered.

They are far from overpowered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Which not all armies have.

Hell, it's not just immune to melta, either. It's immune to chainfists, eviscerators, etc as well. Sisters, quite literally, have nothing that can possibly penetrate it.

Lascannon. You have access to Landraiders.

Orbital Strike possibly also. It may only be the DH that had Lance Strike, not sure on that..

Penitent Engines have DCCW i think?

Take some allies, perhaps. That would give you access to heavy weapons too, i think.

You can also glance it immobile with exorcists and mop up the rest of the necrons while it sits there fuming..

You can win without it being a total boardwipe.



*edit for update*

WH do have Lance Strike. I've always thought it silly that you can't directly target a Monolith with that though, as most scenery pieces are smaller..

Exorcists are AP 1- You can wreck it on a glance.

Ascalam wrote:Statline inferior to Marines and still just as sweepable without Phase Out as with it.

Vastly overcosted/ineffective units that can be done down all to easily.

WBB that can easily be denied in all sorts of ways, and is only on a 4+. FNP is in many ways superior, and many other armies got handed it out like candy.

No power weapons, squad heavy weapons, transports, long range, survivable fire support or artillery units. No additional close combat weapons or grenades (barring the Ctan and I think Wraiths, and their version is less useful if you use the wording in the codex (which you have to).

No ATSKNF, No morale rerollers, no fearless FNP Furious charging troops No infinite attack av 13 walkers with twin-wielded lightning claws...

One tank, and one expensive troop unit.

Close combat units that suck in close combat.

No plasma,melta or lance weapons to aid in tankbusting.

The only thing that could concievable be called overpowered is the Monolith, which is short ranged, slow as hades and vulnerable to being broken open (as it is too slow to run away) in CC, especially by those armies with dreads/ Thunderhammers (and similar stength doublers) or haywire grenades.

It is also breakable from range by decent guns.

Melta doesn't work on it, granted, so take something other than the ever-present meltaspam ...

They may not have power weapons, but I think Warscythes are a great one upper (now if their initiative was higher...)

Every one of their weapons can glance any tank in the game. I'd say that's a half decent tankbuster. But in general I agree with you.

Tank buster, no. You can't bust a tank on a glance any more unless it's open topped

Tank annoy-the-feth-out-of-er yes You can gradually whittle them down, with good dice luck.

*edit for clarification- unless your gun is AP 1- noticed this when looking up the Exorcist *

BT also have a whopping 1 troops choice.

Didn't know that Never met a BT player and i don't have that codex

I thought they had some kind of acolyte/layperson unit or are Tac squads elites?

Ascalam wrote:Didn't know that Never met a BT player and i don't have that codex

I thought they had some kind of acolyte/layperson unit or are Tac squads elites?

Initiates, or scouts, are taken as a part of crusader squads, the BT equivalent of tac squads. The crusader squads are flexible enough that it's not too big of a problem though.

Interesting.

I may have to pick up the BT codex

They have a certain flair, from the pics i've seen..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least you have two options in that unit choice

Ascalam wrote:At least you have two options in that unit choice

Actually, you can't take more initiates than you have neophytes in the squad, so it's always going to be marines as troops. With the different weapon options they're decent at both shooting and assault though.

I think the best way to kill them is to sacrifice a goat to the dice gods.

I field 3 monoliths against my friend mike for the first time against his sw
He only has 3 lascannons in his whole army; nothing else that can shoot them down
First turn, he fires 1 lascannon at each monolith
At the end of the turn, I have 3 smoking craters where monoliths used to be

Mathhammer can kiss my sack.

that's luck,

I do prefere to force the guy to phase out rather than waisting a valuable asset to do something impossible.