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infinite_array wrote:


As to GW's supposed 'secrecy'... what are they keeping secret? We know about Sisters. We have Necron rumors. There was even the whole '6th Edition rumors' tripe going around for a bit. The only thing they've been successful in doing is keeping people from getting White Dwarf, and some stockists are even ignoring that!

Oh dear, someone fell off the logic train. You realize that the necrons, sisters and 6th edition rumors came down the pipe BEFORE GW's recent clampdown on items and secrets, right?

DaNewBoy wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:One wonders if the many GW apologists who basically demand that we all just accept what GW gives us like happy little automatons, do as we are told, and be grateful we even GET to play their fabulous games...do they demonstrate the same attitude towards all the other companies and services they receive?

"The water coming out of this tap has crap in it. We should phone the Water Company.... Or we should just STFU and be grateful they deign to provide us with any water at all. In fact the Water Company say this crap is actually the finest crap available to man."

"This I-item is buggy and does not work, and there are holes in the casing. I should just be grovellingly happy that I-company even bothered to make the I-item to start with. I certainly shouldn't complain about it."

In the rest of the real world, customer feedback, customer goodwill, advertising, marketing and complaints are all sensible grown-up things that adults become involved in in order to receive correct goods and services, and serious matters that companies pay attention to, because it affects their profits.

Yes, Steve job looses sleep all the time over a costumer who just isn't satisfied enough. I hear, every time someone calls costumer service and complains, he guiltily burns all his money and tries to leave his wife.

I love how we are all just jumping right on this fantasy wagon of "Company X knows and cares about ME!"

Costumer Service is not the same as caring about customers. GW replaces its defective products, so your point is moot. Like I said, call Apple and play your 4 year old "I didn't get my way again" tactics on their advertisement and see how much they care then.

Nice way to drag it to the extreme there, with a ridiculous proposition that bears no relevance to what people are actually saying. If giant globo-corps don't care about consumer goodwill, why is News International/Rupert Murdoch giving away newspapers free, and printing all manner of apologies and whatnot? Nobody is claiming that these companies care about individual customers, but they DO care about bad press, and falling sales, and all manner of other things that any company in the real world faces.

There is also an epic difference between "I didn't get my way." and making a legitimate complaint about the goods or services a company is providing.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:There is also an epic difference between "I didn't get my way." and making a legitimate complaint about the goods or services a company is providing.

This is a very important point to keep in mind in these sorts of discussions. People complaining about something, or stating that they dislike something, is not the same thing as 'throwing a tantrum'.

mikhaila wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Some folks here would have you believe that their secrecy is due to a fear that if they reveal anything (anything!) that another company will copy their design and have it on shelves before the GW one is on sale.

Sort of a red herring. Maybe one person brought this up? Have there been any examples of a company doing this?

Yeah, Chapterhouse made a much requested female Farseer only 17+ years after GW presented them in a Codex, they practically ninja'd them
All current Tyranid stand-ins were done after Codex release though.
Gamezone released a corpse cart one or two months before GW.

But major point is that GW doesn't react to year long customer requests like e.g. female Farseers/Guard and doesn't reveal plans on doing essetial units like Tervigons either. So GW's fear of early pirate copies is an irrational response hurting GW sales.

carmachu wrote:Oh dear, someone fell off the logic train. You realize that the necrons, sisters and 6th edition rumors came down the pipe BEFORE GW's recent clampdown on items and secrets, right?

To be fair, half the 6th edition rumours have reputedly been posted as a REACTION to the new secrecy policy. Even if I don't really trust this new set of rumours.

Kanluwen wrote:

Da Boss wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:They've got 82 staff in Design and Development. They had 80 in that department in 2008-9.

Woot! Figures! Thanks KK. Interesting. Guess that proves my assumption wrong then. The answer must be that they are not managing their creative staff effectively, or the creative staff they have are SLOOOOOOOW. Whatever it is, their release schedule is beyond turgid.

I'm curious as to how many members of Design and Development are actually sculptors responsible for doing the work.

It sounds kind of like movies, where you've got a few dozen jobs that nobody really knows what they do and when you look they're responsible for like handing out scripts or something of that nature.

"So if you pick something up, that makes you a 'Grip' now?" (Or words to that effect) springs to mind. MST3k quote, as I recall.

"So if you pick something up, that makes you a 'Grip' now?"

It's what you have to do to get to be best boy that I can't help thinking about!

Kroothawk wrote:

DaNewBoy wrote:There are quite a few cry babies on this forum.
I know it's all a conspiracy and GW is bending you over and you don't even know it and all that...
Hopefully pissing and moaning about it will get GWs attention and they see the error of their ways, but if that never happens then it is both ineffective and annoying.

DaNewBoy wrote:Yes, and all the boo-hooing will fix that.
Infact, I think I'll give your method a shot and when my sink fills up with dirty dishes, I'll just throw a fit and cry and pout until my dishes realize I care about eating off clean plates.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're just overflowing right now, aren't they?

Aren't you mister "care about the opinions of others?"
I don't have to be happy with the way things are going with GW to still be able to be 1) An adult and 2) enjoy playing a game and having fun with friends.
If you let corporate antics flip your "Piss poor" attitude switch every time they do something you don't like, you are in for a long miserable life. You may as well try to stop air, or kill yourself. It's all about the bottom line, not benevolence. Sorry to be one to inform you, and oh yea, there isn't a Santa Clause either.

DaNewBoy wrote:Try boo-hooing to Apple about their advertisements and see what kind of results you get.

DaNewBoy wrote:Booo-Hooo-hooo, I want my way!
If a "fanboi" is someone who doesn't live in a fantasy world where crying and name calling is how to get your way, then with pride.
You enjoy your "daycare lady won't let me swing" tactics and, "I've got more time to be on forums so my opinion has more weight then yours" rhetoric 1, 2 combo.

DaNewBoy wrote:And you'll be on some forum somewhere shocked and amazed at how they only care about making money and not keeping your diaper poopy free and ranting about the good ole circle jerk days.

DaNewBoy wrote:Yes, Steve job looses sleep all the time over a costumer who just isn't satisfied enough. I hear, every time someone calls costumer service and complains, he guiltily burns all his money and tries to leave his wife.

I love how we are all just jumping right on this fantasy wagon of "Company X knows and cares about ME!"

Costumer Service is not the same as caring about customers. GW replaces its defective products, so your point is moot. Like I said, call Apple and play your 4 year old "I didn't get my way again" tactics on their advertisement and see how much they care then.

Wow. That's what I call a 100% troll account. Almost no post without insulting fellow Dakka members, Please can a mod take care of that person?

Da Boss wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:They've got 82 staff in Design and Development. They had 80 in that department in 2008-9.

Woot! Figures! Thanks KK. Interesting. Guess that proves my assumption wrong then. The answer must be that they are not managing their creative staff effectively, or the creative staff they have are SLOOOOOOOW. Whatever it is, their release schedule is beyond turgid.

They'd need to not only sort out what the design guys make that is actually worth putting into production, then, out of that, figure out what is actually affordable to put into production. For example, rumours have been saying the Harpy is done, and has been done, for a long time. It's a plastic kit ready to go. They'd likely have quite a few models left ready to go waiting for a release slot, waiting for the greenlight to make that expensive plastic mold.

The amount of plastic molds being made for Space Marine accessory sprues probably eats into other ranges as well.
'We can make a new accessory sprue so we can give Blood Angels sculpted shoulderpads or we can get to work on that Harpy mold'
*checks Space Marine and Tyranid sales*
'Go with the accessory sprue'.

Worglock wrote:It's because people like you are bad for the hobby and they want you to go play Warmafail.

This is too precious. Sigged.

Apple is a big company that keeps its products secret until the last minute. Of course, for followers of tech blogs it is a very poorly kept secret, but the masses are taken very much by surprise when a new Apple product is released.

For example, the iPad 2 was announced on March 2, only 9 days before it went on sale on March 11. Many people were shocked, especially those who had bought theirs on March 1 (Apple eventually ended up giving refunds to these people) and iPad 1 sales between March 2-11 were drastically lower. Again, people who read engadget and gizmodo knew what was happening, but many/most did not. iPad 2's were sold out within hours.

Granted, Apple has built a name for itself on being 'cool', appeal to a much wider market and are over 1000 times GW's size, but they do have some superficial similarities.

GW's idea with secrecy is not to increase hype, but to decrease the lost sales between announcement and release: if you were in a GW store and knew the kit you wanted was going to be re-released in new and improved form next month, would you buy it? Most probably not. But if you didn't know, you might buy said model this month, AND buy the new shiny version next month because it is newer and shinier.
And, as others have said, long release previews can hurt sales as people are like 'o that model? i saw it 3 months ago and have been thinking about it, decided it doesn't fit in my army' or 'the stormdodo? everyone on the internet hates it so I'm not buying one'.

Not saying it works, but I am sure this is how GW is thinking.

Because playing the guessing game is fun! Who doesn't love to peice together Scant information and pictures to come up with an idea to what is coming out. I like to think this is tue case, GW playing little Guessing games with the customer, however sadly it is more likely due to their Paranoid lawyers.

I think they are because they want to be #1 at sales always. Like today, the staff couldn't tell me where the necron book was after it disapeared of the shelf.

GW's idea with secrecy is not to increase hype, but to decrease the lost sales between announcement and release: if you were in a GW store and knew the kit you wanted was going to be re-released in new and improved form next month, would you buy it? Most probably not. But if you didn't know, you might buy said model this month, AND buy the new shiny version next month because it is newer and shinier.

So are you saying that the stock of the older product by planning decreases to zero by the release of the update and GW are never left with the old ones?

And you spend your gaming budget on a new army to find out next week there will be some better designs
or that a new edition Army Book has nerfed the toys you just bought and you paid for something that is now obsolete

If you a good HHHobbyist of course it matters not a jot and you will gladly go back next week and buy load of the shiny new ones


Would be grateful if one of our store owners/employees in games store could explain the process and what happens to old stock on a new release please.

It is a business model and marketing tactic. Look at some of the most successful companies out there that use it, like Apple.

Next person to mention Apple gets put in a barrel an bobbed for by hungry polar bears

Next person to offer the astounding information that "GW is a busnuss" gets to join the Apple guy

ditto "niche" and "Porsche"

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Next person to mention Apple gets put in a barrel an bobbed for by hungry polar bears

Next person to offer the astounding information that "GW is a busnuss" gets to join the Apple guy

ditto "niche" and "Porsche"

It is a business model though, and it is nothing new under the sun. Every company does it. I am under several NDAs at work because I get access to developer's tools, beta versions, and so forth that have not been released yet. I am under contract to never share any of that information. Apple is just one of the best well known companies that does this.

Crom wrote:It is a business model though...

What did he just say?


You stay there and hold him Chibi. I'll get the barrel... now where am I going to get a barrel at this time of night...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Crom wrote:It is a business model though...

What did he just say?


You stay there and hold him Chibi. I'll get the barrel... now where am I going to get a barrel at this time of night...

Good luck finding the polar bears too!

Hmm... didn't think of that.

Chibi - there's a flaw in your plan!

Curse you international time zones and global warming

GW desperately want to be like Apple but the wargames industry will never be large enough or frankly serious enough. They want to be aggressive and corporate and apply the same approaches in business they see in fast moving technologies to their own approach. But half the time GW don't even understand advertising or the internet. That's why they have become so brutal and possessive over IP and think all this 'secrecy' is somehow deeply clever and impressive. That's what works for other industries, so it must work for them. But they are just making toy soldiers and the rest is puffed up self importance and aggrandisement by senior management. It's like senior management sorts feel a bit silly being in charge of a toy soldier company and want to feel they are running something so much more important.

Even allowing previews of their stuff their competitors can't 'get the jump' on them releasing their own stuff. Even GW know the turn around on design, sculpting, creating moulds and then producing, packaging and distributing figures.

The only time other manufactures have benefited from producing GW proxies isn't because they rushed a release from a GW preview to undercut GW's sales, it's because GW have released an official Codex and not bothered to make all the figures for long periods of time, sometimes even years. Who can they blame apart from themselves for that?

Howard A Treesong wrote:The only time other manufactures have benefited from producing GW proxies isn't because they rushed a release from a GW preview to undercut GW's sales, it's because GW have released an official Codex and not bothered to make all the figures for long periods of time, sometimes even years. Who can they blame apart from themselves for that?

This.

What has more negative effect on GW sales?

2 months of rumor mill, blurry pictures of sprues and box art, ridiculous MS-Word test codices released on the internet, and thousands of forum posts raging or praising the newest beautiful/horrible GW kit...

or

Not making a Thunderwulf model

Lynata wrote:I think it's simply a form of advertisement. Putting a tight lid on any info makes for rampant speculation and wild-guessing.
Coupled with the seemingly inevitable (or even unofficially endorsed!) leaks that allow for bits of info to seep out into the community one by one, this keeps a specific topic "hot" for several months and thus creates a great sense of anticipation.

Much more than an official preview could.

Or at least I could see them thinking like that.

Or alternatively putting a tight lid on info makes people spend money on other things.

Very well said Howard

Kilkrazy wrote:

It's sad when the best post in a thread is:

A) By a Mod

B) An official KilKrazy calling card

Howard A Treesong wrote:GW desperately want to be like Apple but the wargames industry will never be large enough or frankly serious enough. They want to be aggressive and corporate and apply the same approaches in business they see in fast moving technologies to their own approach. But half the time GW don't even understand advertising or the internet. That's why they have become so brutal and possessive over IP and think all this 'secrecy' is somehow deeply clever and impressive. That's what works for other industries, so it must work for them. But they are just making toy soldiers and the rest is puffed up self importance and aggrandisement by senior management. It's like senior management sorts feel a bit silly being in charge of a toy soldier company and want to feel they are running something so much more important.

Even allowing previews of their stuff their competitors can't 'get the jump' on them releasing their own stuff. Even GW know the turn around on design, sculpting, creating moulds and then producing, packaging and distributing figures.

The only time other manufactures have benefited from producing GW proxies isn't because they rushed a release from a GW preview to undercut GW's sales, it's because GW have released an official Codex and not bothered to make all the figures for long periods of time, sometimes even years. Who can they blame apart from themselves for that?

This post comes in close 2nd...

Behind the cute japanese girl eh? Well I can't complain about that.

*It should be noted that I do not believe the crazy person theory I am about to throw out*

Maybe they're just trying to "The Producers" the whole thing, kill the miniatures, games, stores, etc. and live off the sweet, sweet IP juices.

If there was no overhead, a few higher ups could make a killing just licensing the IP.

...of course, without the miniatures game would the IP be worth a dime?

I'd like to be behind the cute Japanese girl

The injunction is telling me not to do that again :(

Tronbot2600 wrote:*It should be noted that I do not believe the crazy person theory I am about to throw out*

Maybe they're just trying to "The Producers" the whole thing, kill the miniatures, games, stores, etc. and live off the sweet, sweet IP juices.

If there was no overhead, a few higher ups could make a killing just licensing the IP.

...of course, without the miniatures game would the IP be worth a dime?

They are licensing it out to video games and they just released their first official full length animated film. I think their marketing is wrong, but that is what happens when you try to take something like 40K and take it form it's current set and try to bring it into the main stream. I mean the ultra marines movie was OK, but the story was bland, the voice acting was average, and the animation while very cool had room for improvement. However, try making an animated movie for the masses and then imagine someone who has never even heard of 40K and then trying to make a story that anyone can follow.

I mean an animated series of the Horus Heresy would be EPIC, and I think it could be done where someone could not know what 40K is and watch it and understand it.

I strongly doubt the IP would last 20 minutes without the wargamers to support it.