Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mannahnin wrote:Or, perhaps, what irony looks like.

Or perhaps someone just needed the truth to finally come out in "Incarnation Over 9000 of the GW Secrecy Thread"?

Because new and interesting thread is new and interesting.

Because paranoid toy soldier maker is paranoid.

If uninteresting thread is so uninteresting, are you here just to proclaim yourself as messiah and the one true prophet of THE one true Hobby?

altogether He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

Read the OP again
9000th incarnation of GW Secrecy thread has a reason.
Apart from which if GW weren't so paranoid the 1st GW secrecy thread would not have seen the light of day.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Because paranoid toy soldier maker is paranoid.

If uninteresting thread is so uninteresting, are you here just to proclaim yourself as messiah and the one true prophet of THE one true Hobby?

altogether He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

Read the OP again
9000th incarnation of GW Secrecy thread has a reason.
Apart from which if GW weren't so paranoid the 1st GW secrecy thread would not have seen the light of day.

Wut?

So, tell me, in all honesty, what *exactly* have you accomplished, or more accurately *failed to accomplish* in the previous 9000+ threads about GW secrecy that requires the dead horse to be flogged again?

And yes, I'm the one true prophet. Now buy me a Dark Elf army.

Worglock wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Because paranoid toy soldier maker is paranoid.

If uninteresting thread is so uninteresting, are you here just to proclaim yourself as messiah and the one true prophet of THE one true Hobby?

altogether He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

Read the OP again
9000th incarnation of GW Secrecy thread has a reason.
Apart from which if GW weren't so paranoid the 1st GW secrecy thread would not have seen the light of day.

Wut?

So, tell me, in all honesty, what *exactly* have you accomplished, or more accurately *failed to accomplish* in the previous 9000+ threads about GW secrecy that requires the dead horse to be flogged again?

And yes, I'm the one true prophet. Now buy me a Dark Elf army.

No. Buy me a Khador army.

Wait... he just said "Previous 9000+ threads".

9000+ = Over 9000!!!

We're being trolled by someone using base-level 4Chan memes.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Wait... he just said "Previous 9000+ threads".

9000+ = Over 9000!!!

We're being trolled by someone using base-level 4Chan memes.

No, no, no, you just don't get it cuz you're a whining kiddie.


Only a brilliant, mature genius could come up with "Warmafail".


If there was a "eye-roll" Orkmoticon, it'd go here.

RatBot wrote:If there was a "eye-roll" Orkmoticon, it'd go here.

You mean:

There are quite a few cry babies on this forum.

I know it's all a conspiracy and GW is bending you over and you don't even know it and all that...

Hopefully pissing and moaning about it will get GWs attention and they see the error of their ways, but if that never happens then it is both ineffective and annoying.

RatBot wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Wait... he just said "Previous 9000+ threads".

9000+ = Over 9000!!!

We're being trolled by someone using base-level 4Chan memes.

No, no, no, you just don't get it cuz you're a whining kiddie.


Only a brilliant, mature genius could come up with "Warmafail".


If there was a "eye-roll" Orkmoticon, it'd go here.

There's a wink one. That usually satisfies when someone intends a sarcastic/ironic comment.

As to GW's supposed 'secrecy'... what are they keeping secret? We know about Sisters. We have Necron rumors. There was even the whole '6th Edition rumors' tripe going around for a bit. The only thing they've been successful in doing is keeping people from getting White Dwarf, and some stockists are even ignoring that!

DaNewBoy wrote:There are quite a few cry babies on this forum.

I know it's all a conspiracy and GW is bending you over and you don't even know it and all that...

Hopefully pissing and moaning about it will get GWs attention and they see the error of their ways, but if that never happens then it is both ineffective and annoying.

Crybabies? Really?

The people who complain are the ones who care the most. They don't want to see the worlds and games they enjoy be ruined by corporate mistakes. It's the people who stop complaining who need to be worried about, since they've just stopped caring.

They're just overflowing right now, aren't they?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

RatBot wrote:If there was a "eye-roll" Orkmoticon, it'd go here.

You mean:

Errr... Yes. I somehow missed that one.

The people who complain are the ones who care the most. They don't want to see the worlds and games they enjoy be ruined by corporate mistakes. It's the people who stop complaining who need to be worried about, since they've just stopped caring.

In all seriousness, this. A thousand times this.

infinite_array wrote:

RatBot wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Wait... he just said "Previous 9000+ threads".

9000+ = Over 9000!!!

We're being trolled by someone using base-level 4Chan memes.

No, no, no, you just don't get it cuz you're a whining kiddie.


Only a brilliant, mature genius could come up with "Warmafail".


If there was a "eye-roll" Orkmoticon, it'd go here.

There's a wink one. That usually satisfies when someone intends a sarcastic/ironic comment.

As to GW's supposed 'secrecy'... what are they keeping secret? We know about Sisters. We have Necron rumors. There was even the whole '6th Edition rumors' tripe going around for a bit. The only thing they've been successful in doing is keeping people from getting White Dwarf, and some stockists are even ignoring that!

DaNewBoy wrote:There are quite a few cry babies on this forum.

I know it's all a conspiracy and GW is bending you over and you don't even know it and all that...

Hopefully pissing and moaning about it will get GWs attention and they see the error of their ways, but if that never happens then it is both ineffective and annoying.

Crybabies? Really?

The people who complain are the ones who care the most. They don't want to see the worlds and games they enjoy be ruined by corporate mistakes. It's the people who stop complaining who need to be worried about, since they've just stopped caring.

Yes, and all the boo-hooing will fix that.

Infact, I think I'll give your method a shot and when my sink fills up with dirty dishes, I'll just throw a fit and cry and pout until my dishes realize I care about eating off clean plates.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're just overflowing right now, aren't they?

Aren't you mister "care about the opinions of others?"

I don't have to be happy with the way things are going with GW to still be able to be 1) An adult and 2) enjoy playing a game and having fun with friends.

If you let corporate antics flip your "Piss poor" attitude switch every time they do something you don't like, you are in for a long miserable life. You may as well try to stop air, or kill yourself. It's all about the bottom line, not benevolence. Sorry to be one to inform you, and oh yea, there isn't a Santa Clause either.

DaNewBoy wrote:


Yes, and all the boo-hooing will fix that.

Infact, I think I'll give your method a shot and when my sink fills up with dirty dishes, I'll just throw a fit and cry and pout until my dishes realize I care about eating off clean plates.

Yes, Boo-hooing won't change anything. I suppose we're getting spoiled, you know, with all the other gaming companies that actually listen to their customer base and treat them with at least a modicum of respect.

hurr durr we hate GW

hurr durr we love GW

hurr durr we're both killing Dakka.

Showing information/plans/designs ahead of time is also good for feedback. If the vast majority of folks don't like something, you can still change it. but you won't ever see them change something AFTER it's been released. Unless an update rolls around.

GW strikes me as the company that spends weeks developing something (in secret), and then unveils whatever it is, and just expect you to buy it, because you didn't know what it was, and now you do.

infinite_array wrote:

DaNewBoy wrote:


Yes, and all the boo-hooing will fix that.

Infact, I think I'll give your method a shot and when my sink fills up with dirty dishes, I'll just throw a fit and cry and pout until my dishes realize I care about eating off clean plates.

Yes, Boo-hooing won't change anything. I suppose we're getting spoiled, you know, with all the other gaming companies that actually listen to their customer base and treat them with at least a modicum of respect.

All they care about is your money. Try boo-hooing to Apple about their advertisements and see what kind of results you get. Yeah you can get "costumer service" if your Ipod is defective, but in the larger picture, they don't give a crap you, just your money.

You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and you'll see which fills up faster.

DaNewBoy wrote:Aren't you mister "care about the opinions of others?"

And aren't you Mr... uhh... no wait I don't know who you are.

Because you're very new and very vocal and can join the train of GW fanbois who appear to have shown up over the past day or two, all with the same litany of nonsense. Get in line.

Cottonjaw wrote:hurr durr we hate GW

hurr durr we love GW

hurr durr we're both killing Dakka.

Ah, well. At least when the inevitable Dakka-based nuclear holocaust between the Alliance of the White Knights and the Underground Resistance of Semi-Organized Hatred goes off, we'll still have the other subforums to retreat to!

Flames of War, anyone? Malifaux? Infinity?

-----------------------

Goddard,

Wasn't the new approach for White Dwarf supposed to have the last page be a 'teaser' page for whatever big release was next month?

If so, then at least there's a bit of a warning. And (hopefully) whatever local FLGS people go to don't require them to purchase the catalog if they want to check the next page.

-----------------------

All they care about is your money. Try boo-hooing to Apple about their advertisements and see what kind of results you get. Yeah you can get "costumer service" if your Ipod is defective, but in the larger picture, they don't give a crap you, just your money.

First, try to get your perspective correct. I didn't say Apple, I said other wargaming companies. And I didn't mention money either, did I?

So, let's see what I did talk about. Listening to your customer base? Well, Privateer Press is well known for their actions before they released mk.II by allowing their customer base to play test the rules, and responded in kind to feedback.

Spartan Games actually went overboard when listening to their customers when The Uncharted Seas was their only game. In an attempt to keep everyone happy, they actually released too many FAQs. They've backed off a bit, but Spartan Games employees (important ones) still frequent their forums.

And what about Wyrd? Well, people were complaining about the massive amount of FAQ and errata the game had since its release. So Wyrd released a mini-rulebook, for $15. Or you could download the full game rules online for free as a PDF.

So, you know what? If, in the end, it's all about the money, then that's fine. But I'll give my money and attention to the companies that actually interact and respect their costumers. And I'll encourage new people coming into the hobby to do likewise.

Oh, and I forgot respect, as well! Let's see, back to Privateer Press. Recently, they announced that since such a massive influx of sales has come in, they'll be delaying their August releases to help get out the orders they have yet to fulfill. They were upfront, apologetic, and sincere (or came off as so). The release was generally met with positive responses, with many people happy that Privateer Press was doing so well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

DaNewBoy wrote:Aren't you mister "care about the opinions of others?"

And aren't you Mr... uhh... no wait I don't know who you are.

Because you're very new and very vocal and can join the train of GW fanbois who appear to have shown up over the past day or two, all with the same litany of nonsense. Get in line.

Booo-Hooo-hooo, I want my way!

If a "fanboi" is someone who doesn't live in a fantasy world where crying and name calling is how to get your way, then with pride.

You enjoy your "daycare lady won't let me swing" tactics and, "I've got more time to be on forums so my opinion has more weight then yours" rhetoric 1, 2 combo.

DaNewBoy wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

DaNewBoy wrote:


Yes, and all the boo-hooing will fix that.

Infact, I think I'll give your method a shot and when my sink fills up with dirty dishes, I'll just throw a fit and cry and pout until my dishes realize I care about eating off clean plates.

Yes, Boo-hooing won't change anything. I suppose we're getting spoiled, you know, with all the other gaming companies that actually listen to their customer base and treat them with at least a modicum of respect.

All they care about is your money. Try boo-hooing to Apple about their advertisements and see what kind of results you get. Yeah you can get "costumer service" if your Ipod is defective, but in the larger picture, they don't give a crap you, just your money.

You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and you'll see which fills up faster.

Of course they don't care about us. But a lot of companies at least pretend to appreciate their customers. GW instead seems to treat their customers as enemies, actively insulting them while they expect money from them.


And I think infinite_array calling us haters "Semi-Organized" is a bit too generous. :p

infinite_array wrote:Goddard,

Wasn't the new approach for White Dwarf supposed to have the last page be a 'teaser' page for whatever big release was next month?

If so, then at least there's a bit of a warning. And (hopefully) whatever local FLGS people go to don't require them to purchase the catalog if they want to check the next page.

I don't subsribe to WD, but I don't think that is enough time to change anything anyway,

infinite_array wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:hurr durr we hate GW

hurr durr we love GW

hurr durr we're both killing Dakka.

Ah, well. At least when the inevitable Dakka-based nuclear holocaust between the Alliance of the White Knights and the Underground Resistance of Semi-Organized Hatred goes off, we'll still have the other subforums to retreat to!

Flames of War, anyone? Malifaux? Infinity?

-----------------------

Goddard,

Wasn't the new approach for White Dwarf supposed to have the last page be a 'teaser' page for whatever big release was next month?

If so, then at least there's a bit of a warning. And (hopefully) whatever local FLGS people go to don't require them to purchase the catalog if they want to check the next page.

-----------------------

All they care about is your money. Try boo-hooing to Apple about their advertisements and see what kind of results you get. Yeah you can get "costumer service" if your Ipod is defective, but in the larger picture, they don't give a crap you, just your money.

First, try to get your perspective correct. I didn't say Apple, I said other wargaming companies. And I didn't mention money either, did I?

So, let's see what I did talk about. Listening to your customer base? Well, Privateer Press is well known for their actions before they released mk.II by allowing their customer base to play test the rules, and responded in kind to feedback.

Spartan Games actually went overboard when listening to their customers when The Uncharted Seas was their only game. In an attempt to keep everyone happy, they actually released too many FAQs. They've backed off a bit, but Spartan Games employees (important ones) still frequent their forums.

And what about Wyrd? Well, people were complaining about the massive amount of FAQ and errata the game had since its release. So Wyrd released a mini-rulebook, for $15. Or you could download the full game rules online for free as a PDF.

So, you know what? If, in the end, it's all about the money, then that's fine. But I'll give my money and attention to the companies that actually interact and respect their costumers. And I'll encourage new people coming into the hobby to do likewise.

Oh, and I forgot respect, as well! Let's see, back to Privateer Press. Recently, they announced that since such a massive influx of sales has come in, they'll be delaying their August releases to help get out the orders they have yet to fulfill. They were upfront, apologetic, and sincere (or came off as so). The release was generally met with positive responses, with many people happy that Privateer Press was doing so well.

And I'm positive ABSOLUTELY everybody was happy. And probably all held hands and sang together and had a bar-b-que and before everyone got into their sleeping bags after smores to get some sleep they all got into a circle and touched each other.

The companies on a large scale don't care. It would be easier for smaller companies to pan handle to their customer base, but for the most part they are stepping stones and when the companies grow up and become big boys and girls, it'll be the same story different chapter. And you'll be on some forum somewhere shocked and amazed at how they only care about making money and not keeping your diaper poopy free and ranting about the good ole circle jerk days.

Your fooling yourself and thats it. Like I said before, I'm not always happy with GE but I can still play a GAME and have fun if I want to.

Goddard wrote:

infinite_array wrote:Goddard,

Wasn't the new approach for White Dwarf supposed to have the last page be a 'teaser' page for whatever big release was next month?

If so, then at least there's a bit of a warning. And (hopefully) whatever local FLGS people go to don't require them to purchase the catalog if they want to check the next page.

I don't subsribe to WD, but I don't think that is enough time to change anything anyway,

Hm. Yeah, I don't think it would be enough time.

Then again, does GW actually listen to costumer feedback? And if they did, would they actually heed it?

You know, that would've been a great idea for Finecost. Send out a poll in one of the WDs, asking what models people would like to see come out in plastiresin, with options like 'Larger metal kits', 'smaller metal kits', 'everything metal' or 'nothing, please keep the metal'.

That would've stopped things like the Incubi and Mandrake packs going to plastiresin (honestly, they should've been multi-part plastic packs in the first place), and prevented Wracks coming out in the same material. But bigger, more annoying kits - Nurgle Daemon Prince, which I believe is the best example of what Finecost could have been. Oh, and Obliterators! - would be released in the new material. Any imperfections small enough to fix/ignore would have been offset by the ease of putting the new models together.

Profit reasons.

Ultramarinescout wrote:Profit reasons.

Comedy gold!

Is the domain name www.GWikileaks.com still available?

One wonders if the many GW apologists who basically demand that we all just accept what GW gives us like happy little automatons, do as we are told, and be grateful we even GET to play their fabulous games...do they demonstrate the same attitude towards all the other companies and services they receive?

"The water coming out of this tap has crap in it. We should phone the Water Company.... Or we should just STFU and be grateful they deign to provide us with any water at all. In fact the Water Company say this crap is actually the finest crap available to man."

"This I-item is buggy and does not work, and there are holes in the casing. I should just be grovellingly happy that I-company even bothered to make the I-item to start with. I certainly shouldn't complain about it."

In the rest of the real world, customer feedback, customer goodwill, advertising, marketing and complaints are all sensible grown-up things that adults become involved in in order to receive correct goods and services, and serious matters that companies pay attention to, because it affects their profits.

My apologies, Worglock, that this 9001 whining thread annoys you so much.

Please note, I'm not ranting against GW here. Whilst I do not agree with their business practices, they don't infuriate me either. What I'm asking is, can anyone see a good reason for GW's inordinately high desire for secrecy?

Who said that? Oh yes, it was me, in the first post. Which, sadly, seems to have been misunderstood by some people who were perhaps a bit too ready to leap to GW's defence.

Now I know it's easy to become very attached to a company that produces something you love, and I know that there's a lot of whining out there that is unjustified. However, this thread was started due to a genuine interest into the policies that GW has made which, as someone who has worked for many retail companies in his life, including GW, seem unusual and counterproductive. I was, perhaps naively, hoping for an intelligent approach to discussion on the subject. I was not looking to bash GW. So please, with respect, if you're going to post something defending the secrecy policy please make it something more relevant than just 'you're a whiner, shut up and buy your dollies.'

No need to apologise HTJ
Your OP was reasonable and polite imho
The guy is either trolling and/or attempting to be witty and failing miserably.

He has been doing the same across a few threads

Worglack
Again read the OP instead of beating on about previous threads.
Also cf my posts on the thread about NOT buying anymore GW stuff
If I ain't buying for myself, why would I buy for a tedious child who obviously has far more cash than is respectable to keep GW shareholders happy.
Any more trolling from you and the yellow button gets hit.
Have been reluctant to so so up to now but enough is enough.
If you have is a problem with the thread I suggest you also contact the Mods, though I suspect that if there was a problem it would have be locked already.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:One wonders if the many GW apologists who basically demand that we all just accept what GW gives us like happy little automatons, do as we are told, and be grateful we even GET to play their fabulous games...do they demonstrate the same attitude towards all the other companies and services they receive?

"The water coming out of this tap has crap in it. We should phone the Water Company.... Or we should just STFU and be grateful they deign to provide us with any water at all. In fact the Water Company say this crap is actually the finest crap available to man."

"This I-item is buggy and does not work, and there are holes in the casing. I should just be grovellingly happy that I-company even bothered to make the I-item to start with. I certainly shouldn't complain about it."

In the rest of the real world, customer feedback, customer goodwill, advertising, marketing and complaints are all sensible grown-up things that adults become involved in in order to receive correct goods and services, and serious matters that companies pay attention to, because it affects their profits.

Yes, Steve job looses sleep all the time over a costumer who just isn't satisfied enough. I hear, every time someone calls costumer service and complains, he guiltily burns all his money and tries to leave his wife.

I love how we are all just jumping right on this fantasy wagon of "Company X knows and cares about ME!"

Costumer Service is not the same as caring about customers. GW replaces its defective products, so your point is moot. Like I said, call Apple and play your 4 year old "I didn't get my way again" tactics on their advertisement and see how much they care then.