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Still, the possibility exists. I would have thought it's the kind of thing the Tau would achieve over 10 to 100 years.

Sadly, all discussion of "sooner" or "later" in the 40K background is meaningless as the story never advances.

The C'Tan are allergic to the Warp, so it's unlikely they used it to make their teleportation drive.

Kilkrazy wrote:Still, the possibility exists. I would have thought it's the kind of thing the Tau would achieve over 10 to 100 years.

Really? I wasn't aware that the Tau were so much more intelligent than everyone else. That'd pretty much put them over the Emperor in terms of intelligence.

The C'Tan are allergic to the Warp, so it's unlikely they used it to make their teleportation drive.

As far as I know, the Warp doesn't necessarily harm C'tan more than it does anything else (and, indeed, likely harms them less than most things), it's just that they can't control it like they can the Materium (which let's face it, essentially means they have magic. So if they are responsible for the Necron faster-than-light drives, it may be impossible for the Tau to come up with it). Still, they almost certainly don't use the Warp for teleportation. I assume it's something to do with their phasing technology.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Still, the possibility exists. I would have thought it's the kind of thing the Tau would achieve over 10 to 100 years.

Really? I wasn't aware that the Tau were so much more intelligent than everyone else. That'd pretty much put them over the Emperor in terms of intelligence.

Well, an entire race being more intelligent than a single person isn't too far fetched.

Kilkrazy wrote:Still, the possibility exists. I would have thought it's the kind of thing the Tau would achieve over 10 to 100 years.

Sadly, all discussion of "sooner" or "later" in the 40K background is meaningless as the story never advances.

The C'Tan are allergic to the Warp, so it's unlikely they used it to make their teleportation drive.

The tau aren't allergic to warp though. I don't see the tau just switching gears to make a pure tech FTL drive. They have warp drive right now. It would take less effort to improve that then to make a totally new system.

Nerivant wrote:Well, an entire race being more intelligent than a single person isn't too far fetched.

Very well. The Tau being vastly more intelligent than humanity (in dozens of separate empires, no less), the Eldar, the Necrontyr and, as far as we know, any other sentient speices in the galaxy.

Besides, the Emperor dedicated a lot time and resources (including the Adeptus Mechanicus and such) to alternative faster-than-light forms of travel, and I'm not sure just how many researchers the Tau would actually commit to one particular project. The other major powers have had a lot more time and resources, but the Tau somehow outstrip them all just because they are Tau? That doesn't sound great to me.

nomotog wrote:They have warp drive right now. It would take less effort to improve that then to make a totally new system.

I think further reseach into the Warp was banned after the Medusa Campaign though. Not to mention the need for Navigators unless the Tau wish to lose significant amounts of their spacecraft.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

nomotog wrote:They have warp drive right now. It would take less effort to improve that then to make a totally new system.

I think further reseach into the Warp was banned after the Medusa Campaign though. Not to mention the need for Navigators unless the Tau wish to lose significant amounts of their spacecraft.

They also don't have to do it in the exact same way as the IoM. I don't see the tau building their own light house or using navigators. I suspect they would do something closer to what they have now. Something like a large space station that allows ships to jump farther then they can unassisted.

nomotog wrote:They also don't have to do it in the exact same way as the IoM. I don't see the tau building their own light house or using navigators. I suspect they would do something closer to what they have now. Something like a large space station that allows ships to jump farther then they can unassisted.

How far and how fast are we talking here? Besides, how'd they even make something like that without Psychic input?

nomotog wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Still, the possibility exists. I would have thought it's the kind of thing the Tau would achieve over 10 to 100 years.

Sadly, all discussion of "sooner" or "later" in the 40K background is meaningless as the story never advances.

The C'Tan are allergic to the Warp, so it's unlikely they used it to make their teleportation drive.

The tau aren't allergic to warp though. I don't see the tau just switching gears to make a pure tech FTL drive. They have warp drive right now. It would take less effort to improve that then to make a totally new system.

To rehearse the argument again, the Tau have decided not to pursue further warp drive development because of the dangers of the warp. At the same time, they want a faster drive to expand farther.

They know that faster drives exist (e.g. Necron) based on non-warp principles. Logically, they will seek to develop their own faster drive based on non-warp principles.

As someone has already developed such a drive, it is possible to invent it independently, without the benefit of "industrial espionage" (though they might well get helpful data from the Necrons).

If no-one has invented such a drive, that would not stop the Tau from doing so, as they believe it is possible.

Kilkrazy wrote:
To rehearse the argument again, the Tau have decided not to pursue further warp drive development because of the dangers of the warp. At the same time, they want a faster drive to expand farther.

They know that faster drives exist (e.g. Necron) based on non-warp principles. Logically, they will seek to develop their own faster drive based on non-warp principles.

As someone has already developed such a drive, it is possible to invent it independently, without the benefit of "industrial espionage" (though they might well get helpful data from the Necrons).

If no-one has invented such a drive, that would not stop the Tau from doing so, as they believe it is possible.

I agree, Tau will sooner or later develop that kind of tech. But it will be very difficult, remember hat Humans in the Golden Age was far more technologically advanced than Tau and even they didn't found other solution then Warp. Or maybe they didn't try all options, I don't know. More likely scenario for Tau would be new ally with that tech already developed.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

nomotog wrote:They also don't have to do it in the exact same way as the IoM. I don't see the tau building their own light house or using navigators. I suspect they would do something closer to what they have now. Something like a large space station that allows ships to jump farther then they can unassisted.

How far and how fast are we talking here? Besides, how'd they even make something like that without Psychic input?

As far as the plot demands. Basically the reason people want to see the tau zoom around faster is because they want to be able to include the tau more easily, so this device drops the tau where ever you want to have them in a battle.

Well they use their warp drive without psychic input. They just kind of push on the wall of the warp and it knocks them back. My idea is just more of that. Use a larger drive to set up like a slingshot where the warp is pushed back more and the ships are thrown longer range. One way trip. Unless you have another slingshot, your hoofing it back.

I was under the impression that the Golden Age humans didn't use Warp Drive, they used something else.

Kilkrazy wrote:I was under the impression that the Golden Age humans didn't use Warp Drive, they used something else.

I have mistaken, they invented warp drive at the very beginning of the golden age. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M22
Before that they use cryo ships and froze crew for 150 years until the next star.

Kilkrazy wrote:I was under the impression that the Golden Age humans didn't use Warp Drive, they used something else.

I've never heard of anything like that. As far as I know, and I could be wrong here, they used the same Warp travel as the Imperium.

They did use Warp Drive with Navigators, Geller fields and the whole shebang. The only difference was there was no Astronomicon.

How exactly does the Astronomicon change things?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:They did use Warp Drive with Navigators, Geller fields and the whole shebang. The only difference was there was no Astronomicon.

Then how did they navigate or make navigators?

It let's you get where you want to go. It's like Polarias.

I don't see how you would use the Warp otherwise, then.

nomotog wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:They did use Warp Drive with Navigators, Geller fields and the whole shebang. The only difference was there was no Astronomicon.

Then how did they navigate or make navigators?

hellspawn22 wrote:I don't see how you would use the Warp otherwise, then.

Well you see you need the Astronomicon to hold an empire together. You need to get from planet A to planet B in X amount of time to stop invasion from Z alien.

Back in the intersteller exodus days they weren't going anywhere specifically. They were simply seeing "what was over the next hill". "Oh, look a nice planet. Let's settle there." It's similiar to our own age of exploration/colonization. They didn't have maps, they just keep going.

So what the Tau have in space travel is not good then? That doesn't make any sense in the fluff. The Tau are suppossed to be one of the most technologically advanced races in 40k and their space travels sucks.

Spartan 117 wrote:So what the Tau have in space travel is not good then? That doesn't make any sense in the fluff. The Tau are suppossed to be one of the most technologically advanced races in 40k and their space travels sucks.

They are also bad at bio engineering. They are not good at everything after all.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

nomotog wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:They did use Warp Drive with Navigators, Geller fields and the whole shebang. The only difference was there was no Astronomicon.

Then how did they navigate or make navigators?

hellspawn22 wrote:I don't see how you would use the Warp otherwise, then.

Well you see you need the Astronomicon to hold an empire together. You need to get from planet A to planet B in X amount of time to stop invasion from Z alien.

Back in the intersteller exodus days they weren't going anywhere specifically. They were simply seeing "what was over the next hill". "Oh, look a nice planet. Let's settle there." It's similiar to our own age of exploration/colonization. They didn't have maps, they just keep going.

Ya, but you can't actually make an navigator without the astronomicon. Exposing to the astronomicon is part of the process.

Spartan 117 wrote:So what the Tau have in space travel is not good then? That doesn't make any sense in the fluff. The Tau are suppossed to be one of the most technologically advanced races in 40k and their space travels sucks.

It's a safe alternative to the very dangerous and unreliable warp travel they could use. Remember, they don't have a god emperor guiding them. So for the Tau, its a shot in the dark they prefer to avoid. In time, its very likely they will develop a superior form of FTL travel and expand rapidly.

Killkrazy actually posted a pretty solid way problems like that get solved in his example that got Cool Story Bro'd. The Tau don't have what they need at the moment, but they see what they want and will find a way to get it, what they may end up building could possibly be better than what they were trying to design. In short, it wouldn't be surprising for the Tau to create a form of FTL on par with the Necrons through sheer force of will and innovation.

Spartan 117 wrote:So what the Tau have in space travel is not good then? That doesn't make any sense in the fluff. The Tau are suppossed to be one of the most technologically advanced races in 40k and their space travels sucks.

You can navigate by taking fixes from quasars, but you can't do that from within the warp.

Of course you can't take a navigational fix from a single point like the Astronomican. There are repeater stations throughout the galaxy.

@nomotog

What are talking about? Look at the link Coa posted above. Navigators were around 9,000 years before anyone ever thought of the astronomicon.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:@nomotog

What are talking about? Look at the link Coa posted above. Navigators were around 9,000 years before anyone ever thought of the astronomicon.

Someone told me that you have to expose a navigator to the astronomicon. I looked it up, turns out they lied to me.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:In short, it wouldn't be surprising for the Tau to create a form of FTL on par with the Necrons through sheer force of will and innovation.

Care to explain what makes the Tau so amazingly intelligent and rich in resources that they can do what no-one else in the Milky Way was capable of doing despite trying to do so, aside from the C'tan (who basically cheat)?

nomotog wrote:Someone told me that you have to expose a navigator to the astronomicon. I looked it up, turns out they lied to me.

I think Astropaths are Soul-bound to the Emperor, but I'm sure if that's actaully a necessity or simply to make it safer for them to transmit messages.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:In short, it wouldn't be surprising for the Tau to create a form of FTL on par with the Necrons through sheer force of will and innovation.

Care to explain what makes the Tau so amazingly intelligent and rich in resources that they can do what no-one else in the Milky Way was capable of doing despite trying to do so, aside from the C'tan (who basically cheat)?

nomotog wrote:Someone told me that you have to expose a navigator to the astronomicon. I looked it up, turns out they lied to me.

I think Astropaths are Soul-bound to the Emperor, but I'm sure if that's actaully a necessity or simply to make it safer for them to transmit messages.

Tau are a more productive race than humanity. They sleep less, work more, live to fufill a role in a caste driven society that strives toward progress. If ever a race was destined to create a new form of travel that sets a benchmark it will be the Tau.

They have every reason to create it and everything to lose it they can't. Won't be surprised if next dex they create an amazing form of FTL travel.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Tau are a more productive race than humanity. They sleep less, work more, live to fufill a role in a caste driven society that strives toward progress. If ever a race was destined to create a new form of travel that sets a benchmark it will be the Tau.

Be that as it may (where'd you read the sleep less and work more part, out of curiosity?), to say that they can develop that in such a short space of time whereas humanity couldn't even with amazingly intelligent AI and vastly superior technology in other regards over thousands of years essentially makes huamns out to be drastically less intelligent. Let alone the poor Necrontyr, who were more technologically advantaged in some respects than the Old Ones but still couldn't develop it (despite have just as much reason, if not more, than the Tau).

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:In short, it wouldn't be surprising for the Tau to create a form of FTL on par with the Necrons through sheer force of will and innovation.

Care to explain what makes the Tau so amazingly intelligent and rich in resources that they can do what no-one else in the Milky Way was capable of doing despite trying to do so, aside from the C'tan (who basically cheat)?

nomotog wrote:Someone told me that you have to expose a navigator to the astronomicon. I looked it up, turns out they lied to me.

I think Astropaths are Soul-bound to the Emperor, but I'm sure if that's actaully a necessity or simply to make it safer for them to transmit messages.

Tau are a more productive race than humanity. They sleep less, work more, live to fufill a role in a caste driven society that strives toward progress. If ever a race was destined to create a new form of travel that sets a benchmark it will be the Tau.

They have every reason to create it and everything to lose it they can't. Won't be surprised if next dex they create an amazing form of FTL travel.

This is true, Tau society allows them to be more productive than humanity. They may only live 40 years, but they live only for the greater good so they have less distractions and infighting then humanity. Unless humanity find something that makes them less self destructive the Tau will catch up with them fast.

Edit: I wouldn't say they are more intelligent just more driven to the goal. Where humans are selfish.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:In short, it wouldn't be surprising for the Tau to create a form of FTL on par with the Necrons through sheer force of will and innovation.

Care to explain what makes the Tau so amazingly intelligent and rich in resources that they can do what no-one else in the Milky Way was capable of doing despite trying to do so, aside from the C'tan (who basically cheat)?

Necessity is the mother of invention.