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Are these seriously for normal games because if so they are far over powered, the normal game points cost is 2500 and there are no force organization charts in Apocalypse.

The Primarchs are fine but the Chaos Gods are nowhere near what they should be. They shouldn't even be thought of in game terms. Might as well just give them 10's all around with a re-rollable 2++, EW, 30 Wounds and Attacks because you aren't just going to kill, yknow, Khorne by shooting the Cyberdemon until it dies.

Yes,they are seriously intended for nrormal gameplay.They may seem op to begin with,but essentially,the 5000pts means that you will be vastly outmanned.If you don't have a counterpart,then your opponent gets an additional 1500pts.So,in a 5500pts game,it would be the Emperor and a couple of Tac squads vs a 6500pts army,OP?No.

If you include the counterpart for your army,you don't gain the addaitional 1500pts,but then it is equal becasue they have similar power..

Like I said,the Necron Tiotan could be used as a normal Apoc unit(losing the Awesome Might and Master of Wra rules),and fit right in with the Necrons,and give them a decent unit.


In terms of FOC,there could be a custom or Battle mission out there that makes Elites,HS and FA 2 KP,HQ 3,troops and DT 1.So,even in Apocalypse,taking one of these would make Calgar worth 2 KP instead of 3.

That's called Apocalypse, the term given to a game type over 3000 points. I doesn't matter if you use a small amount of models the points cost determines that. Yes it is if its a normal game which it technically is not.

If it is 3k+,it doesn't have to be Apoc.Apocalypse is an option with a minmum requirement of 3000pts,in additon to a maximum limit.It is an optional expansion,like Battle Misiions,COD and Planetstrike.Most people play Apocalypse anyway at 5000pts,and then there is no problem anyway.

Look, I'll give it to you straight.

Apocalypse is not like Spearhead or Cities of Death. Those are additions to the normal game. Apocalypse is all new rules. Different deployment, different win conditions, different (as in no) Force Organization Chart, and different types of units. There is actually no limits, either minimum or maximum, for an Apocalypse game. You could have an Apoc game at 500 points each side. Silly? Yes. But possible. By the same token, you could have an Apoc game with one million or more points on each side. Impractical? Again, yes. But possible. The hallmark of an Apoc game is the lack of a FoC and the different rules, both for deployment, turn order, and win conditions. That's it.

You can play a regular game up to any points value. You can play a regular game down to any points value, as long as you follow the FoC. Because of the limiting nature of the FoC, this means that it generally becomes impractical to play non-Apoc games after about 3000 points, simply because it becomes difficult to fill a full 3000 points with only 2 HQs, 6 Troops, and 3 each of Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. Yes, some Armies may be able to do this, but not most.

For example, the very maximum number of points it's possible to field using the Ork codeks is... 10417? Okay, so maybe you have a point there. Still, the point stands that most people will not have a single army that large. Much of the points cost in an Apocalypse game goes to Superheavies, which cannot be fielded in 'normal' games. 1 model which costs most of a thousand points makes it much easier to play multi-thousand point games.

You know what? I think I just convinced myself contrary to my original point. You apparently can play an actual 'normal' game with units that cost upwards of 5000 points. Huh. I think the turning point came when I realized that, with the Mad Dok, it's possible to make Nob Mobz that are worth more than one thousand points. almost 1250 with a Battlewagon. That's kinda insane.

Anvildude wrote:Look, I'll give it to you straight.

Apocalypse is not like Spearhead or Cities of Death. Those are additions to the normal game. Apocalypse is all new rules. Different deployment, different win conditions, different (as in no) Force Organization Chart, and different types of units. There is actually no limits, either minimum or maximum, for an Apocalypse game. You could have an Apoc game at 500 points each side. Silly? Yes. But possible. By the same token, you could have an Apoc game with one million or more points on each side. Impractical? Again, yes. But possible. The hallmark of an Apoc game is the lack of a FoC and the different rules, both for deployment, turn order, and win conditions. That's it.

It is the same.It is optional to play Apocalypse,just like it is optional to play Planet Strike or Spearhead,and they have strategems and different deployment as well.


Multiple detachment games are non apocalypse games,and they are basically 2 different armies,fighting under 1 list.It is essentially 2 FOC.