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WarlordRob117 wrote:(which for anyone with math skills knows 2 glancing 6 hits equals wrecked)

You may want to read the rules on vehicle damage.

Here's my five cents:

There are so many neat units in the Tyranids dex that I have to list one from each of the FOC slots.
HQ:
The Swarmlord: For 260pts, you get a massive amount of high str hits which allow no saves. something has to be said here.
Elites:
The Doom of Malan'tai: For some people, a beast that uses psychic powers to eat the souls of your models and then heal it's self to 10 wounds is unnerving.
Troops:
Genestealers: For 14pts, you get a no-need synapse, Rending, A2-3, I6 hits. Give them scything talons, and you are re-rolling ones and are chewing through any model from any army.
Ripper swarms (Gak, most of you will think): When given spinefists AND tunnelmswarms, you have a deep striking, multi-shooty force. When used to support a trygon prime by being a meatshield, They work quite efficiently.
Fast attack:
Gargoyles: Nuff said on page 1.
Heavy support:
Trygon prime with regen: Yes, he's pricy. but how often will this thing die? And when you use tunneling rippers as backup, this guy eats through most armies.

As for the necron dex,
The Lord and the Monolith are your best friends. The lord is so versatile and the lith is just all round almost OP, even though its a whole edition behind.

For Eldar it's Fire Dragons and Howling Banshees.

16 points for a meltagun/ power weapon is awesome xD

p14tinum wrote:For Eldar it's Fire Dragons and Howling Banshees.

16 points for a meltagun/ power weapon is awesome xD

Not to mention that nifty I 10 on the banshees.

DA
Ravenwing typhoon landspeeder: 75 points and pretty good...

Deathwing: 215 points and the ability to take any standard termy equipment for free.

Eldar: Banshees as above, Fire dragons, War walkers.

The almighty wave serpent

Purifiers for GK.

Cheap and plentiful Psycannons, veteran profile, Fearless, and THE BEST horde control in the game. For 4pts more than a Strike squad marine? I'll take that, thanks

Psyflemen are also pretty ridiculous when compared to other marine Riflemen. 10pts more for str8 autocannons, the ability to completely ignore suppression and Reinforced Aegis? (I mean seriously, why the feth did they even get reinforced Aegis? )

The Hydra Flak Tank is incredibly cheap. 75 points for an AV 12 enclosed vehicle with 2x twin-linked, range 72" autocannons and a heavy bolter, all that ignore the movement saves for bikes, skimmes and jetbikes. You can even take them in squadrons of three for only 225 points as one HS slot! It simply murders every fast moving unit on the field in short order - the reason why I don't field it is simply because it is too good, and it would be mean against my friends and no fun for them.

Gargoyles compared to the 5 point gaunt, its got 2 extra abilities, and it can be pretty effective in combat with upgrades, also they are great for screens

IG GK BA and SW are all so mech heavy its stupid, which is why the Hive Guard takes the cake for me. While not the most point efficient, it is certainly our most versatile AT weapon

Olenos wrote:Gargoyles compared to the 5 point gaunt, its got 2 extra abilities, and it can be pretty effective in combat with upgrades, also they are great for screens

IG GK BA and SW are all so mech heavy its stupid, which is why the Hive Guard takes the cake for me. While not the most point efficient, it is certainly our most versatile AT weapon

When did 50pts for something as amazing as a Hive Guard get declared "inefficient"? They're well worth the points you spend on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rennoc215 wrote:Here's my five cents:

There are so many neat units in the Tyranids dex that I have to list one from each of the FOC slots.
HQ:
The Swarmlord: For 260pts, you get a massive amount of high str hits which allow no saves. something has to be said here.
Elites:
The Doom of Malan'tai: For some people, a beast that uses psychic powers to eat the souls of your models and then heal it's self to 10 wounds is unnerving.
Troops:
Genestealers: For 14pts, you get a no-need synapse, Rending, A2-3, I6 hits. Give them scything talons, and you are re-rolling ones and are chewing through any model from any army.
Ripper swarms (Gak, most of you will think): When given spinefists AND tunnelmswarms, you have a deep striking, multi-shooty force. When used to support a trygon prime by being a meatshield, They work quite efficiently.
Fast attack:
Gargoyles: Nuff said on page 1.
Heavy support:
Trygon prime with regen: Yes, he's pricy. but how often will this thing die? And when you use tunneling rippers as backup, this guy eats through most armies.

The only truly efficient units here are the Gargoyles and (arguably) Doom. Sure, the others are good (excluding Rippers...), but you pay an arm and a leg for them, and then pray that the enemy doesn't blast them away early.

I say Chimeras, Vendettas and Ork Boyz.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
When did 50pts for something as amazing as a Hive Guard get declared "inefficient"? They're well worth the points you spend on them.

I don't like paying 50 points for essentially a Missile Launcher. They're awesome because they're realistically all we've got as far as tankbusters.

rigeld2 wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
When did 50pts for something as amazing as a Hive Guard get declared "inefficient"? They're well worth the points you spend on them.

I don't like paying 50 points for essentially a Missile Launcher. They're awesome because they're realistically all we've got as far as tankbusters.

Yes, but they're also fairly difficult to kill, are competent in assault if they get charged and don't require line of sight to shoot at targets.

rigeld2 wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
When did 50pts for something as amazing as a Hive Guard get declared "inefficient"? They're well worth the points you spend on them.

I don't like paying 50 points for essentially a Missile Launcher. They're awesome because they're realistically all we've got as far as tankbusters.

Of course, because a relentless 2 shot bs4 Missile launcher which doesn't require LOS and ignores cover on vehicles mounted on a t6 2wound dude, for the price of 2 ML Long Fangs is WAY overcosted.

If marines got Hive Guard equivalents for 50pts in their elite slots, you really think everybody wouldn't be playing them?

Jabbdo wrote:[
Of course, because a relentless 2 shot bs4 Missile launcher which doesn't require LOS and ignores cover on vehicles mounted on a t6 2wound dude, for the price of 2 ML Long Fangs is WAY overcosted.

If marines got Hive Guard equivalents for 50pts in their elite slots, you really think everybody wouldn't be playing them?

With half the range. I'm not saying they're a bad unit - I'm just saying they aren't amazing. The reason every (sane) Tyranid list includes them is because as far as ranged anti-tank we have:

1) Hive Guard - 24 inch range, awesome LOS tricks - really only awesome at popping transports
2) Zoanthrope - 18 inch range Lance, psychic power (so roll LD test, avoid psychic defnses, then try and hit).
3) Tyrannofex - 48 inch range tankbuster - this one is awesome, but costs 265 points.

Of all of those options, yes the Hive Guard rocks. Compared to what marines get? Not so much (imo).

Note: I'm not saying Nids should have more marine-like units or attacks. I just don't think Hive Guard are the most point efficient unit in the Codex - Gargoyles that that hands down.

Don't you just hate how the Hive Tyrant, the Harpy and the Tyrannofex are BS 3?

They are also super expensive. HG are the only affordable long ranged anti-tank that Tyranids have. It says something about the weakness of a list that 6 HG are mandatory in mech heavy environments

if only there was a way to boost accuracy (tyranid marker lights?)

rigeld2 wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:[
Of course, because a relentless 2 shot bs4 Missile launcher which doesn't require LOS and ignores cover on vehicles mounted on a t6 2wound dude, for the price of 2 ML Long Fangs is WAY overcosted.

If marines got Hive Guard equivalents for 50pts in their elite slots, you really think everybody wouldn't be playing them?

With half the range. I'm not saying they're a bad unit - I'm just saying they aren't amazing. The reason every (sane) Tyranid list includes them is because as far as ranged anti-tank we have:

1) Hive Guard - 24 inch range, awesome LOS tricks - really only awesome at popping transports
2) Zoanthrope - 18 inch range Lance, psychic power (so roll LD test, avoid psychic defnses, then try and hit).
3) Tyrannofex - 48 inch range tankbuster - this one is awesome, but costs 265 points.

Of all of those options, yes the Hive Guard rocks. Compared to what marines get? Not so much (imo).

Note: I'm not saying Nids should have more marine-like units or attacks. I just don't think Hive Guard are the most point efficient unit in the Codex - Gargoyles that that hands down.

Now I know i'm gonna get lectured on how i'm wrong but here we go.

Picking just 1:

Eldar= Prince Yriel ( cost 155) Fully versitile, Str 9 vs. vehicles, PW that wounds on a 2+, effectively a flamestorm large blast that goes off at I 7 once a game, fully hideable in units and transports until your ready to bring him out.( yes i already know about his downsides lol)

Blood Angels= Gabriel Seth (cost 160) a 4 wound captain that can get one auto hit on a flat out vehicle and effectively has a PF that rends( vs. vehicles) is str 8 plus rending vs nonvehicles that strikes at I 5, and the best part: he literally punches people in the face that roll a 1 to hit him, also he's fully hideable as well.

I would say for tyranids it would HAVE to be
10 pt termigaunts with devourers... str 4 18" range 3 shots lol....
bump them up to 12 pts and give them adrenal glands (furious charge) and toxin sacs (4+ poison reroll all to wound failed rolls if your str is equal or above your opponents...)you have great shooting and mellee choice...

Run
shoot 3 shots per guy minumum squad size of 10
30 shots
hits on 4+
wounds marines on 4+
assault
get the charge bumping str to 4
hit on 4+
wound on 4+
reroll all failed cc wounds...
50 attacks total 3 shots and 2 close combat... for 12 points per model... rediculous

10 guys in a group for 140 pts
50 attacks that against space marines all is 4+ against weaker enemies its even better.... your looking at a troop of death
wiuth maximum range actually at 24" death range at 12"

-or-

8 point hormagaunts
run 20 of them for 160 pts and have maximum close combat attacks of 60 all hitting and wounding on 4+ re rolling all to hit rolls of 1 if str is 3 or less re rolling all failed wounding hits... i mean thats rediculous.

Note* neither option works well for armoured vehicles.... even with a10 in the backs... str 4 just... doesnt cut it without rending. But for infantry, elite and hero killing... yea... not even logan grimnar can at what 270 pts can hold his own to 10-15 termigaunts or hormagaunts. at less than half his points.

Don't get me wrong, I love the hive guard, I guess I didn't word it properly, but i meant that there are other options in other operative word "other" codexes that are a great buy. Plus they are a $ drain to buy lawl.

Flickerfields. 10 pts for a 5+ Invul. on our Magic Paper Mache Pirate Ships? Awwww yeah.

Not to hate on the Chaos Daemon Fiend love. But they are 30 points each.

Seekers of Slaanesh are only 17 points, they have the same attack range, only 1 less attack, and 1 less Strength.

Yes they have half as many wounds to withstand the shooting phase after dropping in, so it starts to balance out.

But point for point, Seekers are far better than Fiends.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:I would say for tyranids it would HAVE to be
10 pt termigaunts with devourers... str 4 18" range 3 shots lol....
bump them up to 12 pts and give them adrenal glands (furious charge) and toxin sacs (4+ poison reroll all to wound failed rolls if your str is equal or above your opponents...)you have great shooting and mellee choice...

Run
shoot 3 shots per guy minumum squad size of 10
30 shots
hits on 4+
wounds marines on 4+
assault
get the charge bumping str to 4
hit on 4+
wound on 4+
reroll all failed cc wounds...
50 attacks total 3 shots and 2 close combat... for 12 points per model... rediculous

10 guys in a group for 140 pts
50 attacks that against space marines all is 4+ against weaker enemies its even better.... your looking at a troop of death
wiuth maximum range actually at 24" death range at 12"

-or-

8 point hormagaunts
run 20 of them for 160 pts and have maximum close combat attacks of 60 all hitting and wounding on 4+ re rolling all to hit rolls of 1 if str is 3 or less re rolling all failed wounding hits... i mean thats rediculous.

Note* neither option works well for armoured vehicles.... even with a10 in the backs... str 4 just... doesnt cut it without rending. But for infantry, elite and hero killing... yea... not even logan grimnar can at what 270 pts can hold his own to 10-15 termigaunts or hormagaunts. at less than half his points.

Gotta agree with you here, I've seen TWC units get overwhelmed with wounds from a 20-man Hormagaunt unit (with adrenals and toxin sacs). They're nasty, but they will die in the next turn when the enemy revenge-kills them.

I've always thought of the Codex: Space Marine Librarian as the most cost efficient thing in that book. It does so many beautiful, beautiful things at a really nice price. You don't have to buy a single upgrade to make it awesome.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Not to hate on the Chaos Daemon Fiend love. But they are 30 points each.

Seekers of Slaanesh are only 17 points, they have the same attack range, only 1 less attack, and 1 less Strength.

Yes they have half as many wounds to withstand the shooting phase after dropping in, so it starts to balance out.

But point for point, Seekers are far better than Fiends.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Seekers are only str3, and Fiends are Str5 (with one at Str6 for dirt cheap). The Fiends are better because they can take out land raiders (through rending), but Seekers are only good at infantry.

Edit: also, Seekers have grenades, but Fiends don't. Fiends are more versatile because they can take out vehicles/MC/ICs better, but Seekers are probably better at pure anti-infantry.

Hydra Flak Tank for Imperial Guard. They cost 75 points and have four autocannons, heavy bolters and a smoke launcher. The enemy's skimmers and most tanks get one-shotted in the first turn.

Space wolves:
with out a doubt it's a no brainer you grey hunters are your bread and butter, with that amazing company standard that allows rerolls of ALL 1's in close combat (including armor saves, mark of the wulfun attack, etc.) it's a steal.
Though longs fangs are a deal for 5 missile launcher long fangs it's 140 points, with the ability to splint fire, very versatile.

Grey Knights: Psybolt ammo rifle dread: 4 str 8 auto cannon shots yes please.

Dark Eldar: Chronos Pain engine- 110 points you got your self a T7 str5, A: 3+ monster with a AP 3 flamer template and large blast that steals pain tokens and gives it to it's self and others is very useful if you keep a near by group of witches or incubi near him.

daemons: hard to decide here. flamers of tzeentch 35 poitns apiece a 3 man suicide unit, causing 3 wounds of 4+ no armor or cover save allowed flamer templates can decimate an opponents expensive unit. or fiends of slaanesh 30 points apiece for a str 5 t 4 w 2 i 5 A 5 with reading beast model. These guys i've seen fly across the board shredding units to pieces.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:The only truly efficient units here are the Gargoyles and (arguably) Doom. Sure, the others are good (excluding Rippers...), but you pay an arm and a leg for them, and then pray that the enemy doesn't blast them away early.

See, I would say the Swarmlord is inefficient pointwise, but the thing is, your going to be dropping about 300 points into a good walking tyrant anyways, so when you think about it, your paying about the same for a swarmlord or a walking hive tyrant, and as an alternative, the Swarmlord has some great uses as a CC only tyrant. Especially in reserves lists or Genestealer lists.

Swiftblade wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:The only truly efficient units here are the Gargoyles and (arguably) Doom. Sure, the others are good (excluding Rippers...), but you pay an arm and a leg for them, and then pray that the enemy doesn't blast them away early.

See, I would say the Swarmlord is inefficient pointwise, but the thing is, your going to be dropping about 300 points into a good walking tyrant anyways, so when you think about it, your paying about the same for a swarmlord or a walking hive tyrant, and as an alternative, the Swarmlord has some great uses as a CC only tyrant. Especially in reserves lists or Genestealer lists.

Agreed, Swarmlord is a good use of points, but like I said he isn't exactly "efficient".

axeman1n wrote:.
Necrons: Tombspider: 55pts can give you T6, 5W unit with a 3+ cover save as long as the scarab is in area terrain. If you kill the scarab, he just makes another.

So Wrong it made a Cat die...

+1 for the dual-cannon Venoms.

It's a transport vehicle that is actually better for firepower than the dedicated Eldar attack vehicle- the Vyper. For some players, it's the only way GW can sell their 5-man Wrack boxed sets.

If DE could take three of them as a squadron for a Fast Attack choice, they would be one of the most powerful units in the game.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Swiftblade wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:The only truly efficient units here are the Gargoyles and (arguably) Doom. Sure, the others are good (excluding Rippers...), but you pay an arm and a leg for them, and then pray that the enemy doesn't blast them away early.

See, I would say the Swarmlord is inefficient pointwise, but the thing is, your going to be dropping about 300 points into a good walking tyrant anyways, so when you think about it, your paying about the same for a swarmlord or a walking hive tyrant, and as an alternative, the Swarmlord has some great uses as a CC only tyrant. Especially in reserves lists or Genestealer lists.

Agreed, Swarmlord is a good use of points, but like I said he isn't exactly "efficient".

Yes, to qualify for this unit the unit must be a STEAL

Thunderfire cannon. 100 points of squad wiping ground shaking power!!!!!! ;D