Ogryns are NOT useless.

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**Armless Failure**

kyranzor wrote:Anyone thought to use the new mantic orc warboss or 'nob' equivalent units to model ogyns cheaply?

No, but my current Ogryn squad are just WHFB Ogre leadbelchers, with the gnoblars filed off and grenades glued on.

My experience has been that Ogryn are useful against Tau and Eldar, and beyond that they are worth a ton of style points. Aside from them being cheaper, I really agree that the Bone 'ead needs the option of a power weapon, and maybe some other ranged weapon option, like maybe a grenade launcher, or flamethrower, but not plasma nor melta (too complex and fragile).

Also in the fluff, Ogryns have this weird mix of Bad

and heartwarming. Tons of style point for using them.

**Kelanen2002**

Joey wrote:In my defence if I'd have been correct about wound allocation rules, Ogryns would be a fair choice. Rules as stands, however, yes they are massively over-priced.

You mean if we were playing a completely different game?

This and ID are why multi-wound model units are generally very weak.

**Addicted to Bleach**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
SOFDC wrote:I'd be more interested in a test up against the biggest, "Wow that's cheezy" unit of grey hunters possible or against Strike Squad.

Yes sir!

GREY HUNTERS UNIT ALPHA
9x Grey Hunters: Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Power Weapon - 180pts
Wolf Guard: Combi-melta and Powerfist - 43pts
Rhino - 35pts
TOTAL - 258pts

For pretty much the same price (250pts) we can get 5 Ogryns and a Bone 'ead. Just for fun, we'll see how this would play out when...

EVERYTHING GOES THE OGRYNS' WAY

Ogryns shoot at the Grey Hunters (for this, we'll assume they don't, or can't, use the Wolf Standard):
18 S5 shots at BS3 = 9 hit, 5.94 wound (let's round to 6), 2 Grey Hunters die.

The Ogryns then charge, and the Space Wolves fail their counter-attack roll. Poor buggers. Space Wolves strike first, however (except for the Wolf Guard).
WS4 vs WS4
10 attacks from the regular Grey Hunters = 5 hit, 1.65 wound (we'll round to 2), 1.32 unsaved wounds (we'll round to 1).
2 attacks from the power weapon = 1 hit, .33 wound (we'll round to 0).
On average, about 4 attacks for the Wulfen = 2 hit, 0.66 wound (we'll assume this doesn't rend), 0.43 unsaved wounds (we'll round to 0).

So, so far, only 1 wounded Ogryn. Ogryns' turn to strike back:
25 attacks at S6 (!!!) for Furious Charge = 12.5 hit, 10.38 wound, 3.42 unsaved wounds (we'll round to 3).

However, the Wolf Guard gets to strike back now.
2 attacks at S8 = 1 hit, 0.69 unsaved wounds... so probably 1 dead Ogryn.

So, at the end of the turn, we've got 5 dead Grey Hunters, 1 dead Ogryn and an Ogryn with 1 wound... assuming I did my Mathhammer right. Of course, that's with everything to their advantage, and even then it's about even, but to be fair they're fighting Grey Hunters.

Ogryns are T5 so are not instant deathed by the Pfist. Overall very informative, but no Ogryns would die one would only have lost two wounds.

**ImpGuardPanzies**

I went into cc w 3 ogryns v.s 5 sw terms geared for cc and 1 captin guy. I lasted 5 turns of cc, killed 3 terms and caused a wound on the commander. OGRYNS ARE NOT USELESS!! HO RAA!!!!

**Ashiraya**

Ogryns are quite similar to orks, in physiology (though they lack fungus) and mind (simply like to smash things, and a simple faith in their respective deities)
Though, I dont care about theyir competetiveness. (though they are competetive) no, I take them for the same reason i take all the other things in 40k- i like the model/fluff.
Though they need to be made in plastic, and a drop in price.

**Drake118**

I don't care if they aren't worth the points. I'm building a Brimlock Dragoon Regiment loosley based on the book Imperial Glory, and i plan on putting 6 Ogryns in a Vendetta. Expensive, yes, but intimidating i think.

**Ailaros**

Woah, woah, people are missing the point entirely here (mostly). If you are looking at ogryn ONLY by how much damage they do, and then compare that amount of damage per point to other units in the guard codex, you are ENTIRELY missing the point of ogryn.

The point of ogryn is field position. Power blobs may do more damage, but they take up a very large footprint, and so their force concentration is actually rather poor (which is why they have to win by attrition). Likewise, vehicles tend to be bad with field position as they can only get SO close to certain areas without just being horribly melta'd to death.

Ogryn are a "linebacker" squad that is used to force your way into certain areas on the field that you want to take posession of (which you then hold with different units like blobs). Very, very little else fills this role in the codex. You don't NEED to have this kind of a squad in a guard army, but they are very useful should you so choose to include them.

To give some examples of what I mean about ogryn and field position, take a look here or here, the former in which they hold down half of the opponent's forces by themselves (yes, they were terminators too), and in the latter, they push their opponent's off an objective, and then shield it from recapture.

They are not the most killy, but they are killy ENOUGH to do their job, which is to take hits (T5 units in cover are pretty tough to route out with shooting), take objectives, and take field position, all of which they do very well, even for their cost.

**ImpGuardPanzies**

Couldnt agree more with Ailaros here. Ogrnys dont need to be as good as terminators. There an umph to your force your enemy probably isnt expecting.

Unlike killy terms, ogryns soak up a lot of fire, and distract multiple squads a turn (not to say terms dont do this as well) ogryns generaly do it better

Recomendation, a couple small ogryn squads near stracken.

**Armless Failure**

Even as a firemagnet/tarpit, Ogryn are still overcosted. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the fluff and if the models weren't expensive and metal I would run them in my army, points cost be damned. And a unit working in a battle is not evidence of a unit not being overcosted, they do draw fire, and they make units nervous, but they A) are in the same slot as veterans, and B) they suck up points which could be more heavy/special weapons, tanks, other upgrades.

**Ailaros**

Ogryn aren't a tarpit unit. If they were, then I'd totally agree that they are overcosted for a tarpit unit, especially when two barebones infantry squad with a naked commissar is only 135 points.

As a fire magnet (once again, not something that's strictly speaking their job), they're actually not so bad. They provide target saturation with all guard vehicles, except they're much easier to get a 4+ cover save for. Plus, unless it's S10, it's basically worthless to shoot at them. 6 ogryn hiding inside a guard blob takes 8 marines with missile launchers TEN TURNS to wipe out.

Plus, in lists that aren't so hot on vehicles, they also provide target saturation with HWSs, which are actually somewhat tricky to keep alive in foot horde lists.

As such, when considering their cost with regards to them being a fire magnet, you have to reduce their cost by the number of points of stuff they help keep alive for another turn or two.

**Billagio**

I would rather use TH/SS termies against ogryn... Lets see who wins that battle.

**Ailaros**

it's not about who does more damage with ogryn - they can't be judged purely by merits of their killing power.

Plus, if you're going just to say X counters Y, then I can say Z counters X, and we can go on forever.

**Necrontyr40k**

Yes, they need to have some sort of power weapon or rending attack to be more competitive.

They are effective tarpits but not efficient tarpits.

They are expensive because they are elite units and offer something IG does not otherwise have - T5 and 3W.

To the Vendetta comment, ogryns cannot be transported there as per rules IIRC.

I ran them a lot and so speak from experience when I say they are underwhelming and too expensive for what they do, but are a lot of FUN to play because they are fluffy and surprise and scare the opponent. I normally ran them in a chimera with a Lord Commissar, who gives them leadership, summary execution, and a power weapon (they are already stubborn). But the lord is IC, so he gets singled out, and for him to hurt something, he needs a power fist, which makes him strike last. Once the commissar is dead, they will eventually run, even with stubborn, and then get swept. Or they will just die eventually. That buys more time for IG to shoot the rest of the army, but it also keeps the tarpitted units safe from being shot.

So, it is really a mixed bag and no way around it. I would take them in friendly games. Don't bring them to tournaments.

**martin74**

There is only one way to play ogryns. Put five in a chimera, put a dozer blade on it, extra armour, and shove yarrick in there for good measure. the extra armour to keep you moving, and, the dozer blade to keep you moving over that terrain without issues.

when you charge, with yarrick in the mix, it is a blend of superb kick butt goodness.

Yes, i know it is a major point sink, but, hey, it is fun as all gets out. nothing like wiping out a squad of some sort of marines or there unit they thought was going to to good. it is more fun when they blow up the chimera, then, there are 5 ogryns and yarrick looking all mad because they have to walk. the attack on the charge is great. re-rolls, strength 6, it goes on and on.

**ChronoDK**

I'm trying to revive my old 4th edition army, and I have 5 Ogryns with 2 CCW and no ripper guns. Are they useless now?

**Jihallah**

martin74 wrote:There is only one way to play ogryns. Put five in a chimera, put a dozer blade on it, extra armour, and shove yarrick in there for good measure. the extra armour to keep you moving, and, the dozer blade to keep you moving over that terrain without issues.

when you charge, with yarrick in the mix, it is a blend of superb kick butt goodness.

Yes, i know it is a major point sink, but, hey, it is fun as all gets out. nothing like wiping out a squad of some sort of marines or there unit they thought was going to to good. it is more fun when they blow up the chimera, then, there are 5 ogryns and yarrick looking all mad because they have to walk. the attack on the charge is great. re-rolls, strength 6, it goes on and on.

Lash+vindicator makes yarrick a lonely man. It's a huge point sink for a unit that's pretty much only useful in CC and is pretty easy to negate.

**Samus_aran115**

They aren't horrendous, but I'd never throw them into a unit of terminators, especially LC ones

Even against rank and file marines, they can do well.

**martin74**

I have run the Yarrick/ogryn (5 strong)/chimera for a while now in 2000 points or more. The first time someone plays against it they pretty much ignore the fact that it is a guard unit. Once the assault is on, the Ogryns get the charge, they soon become a priority target, thus, freeing up the demolishers, battle tanks, and other heavy fire power that the guard is known for.

**AllYourBase**

I have seen 2-4 LC termies with 4-6 THSS just for I4 against against Tau/Crons/Orks
But I rock 7 THSS with a Lib and LRR!!

**Samus_aran115**

AllYourBase wrote:I have seen 2-4 LC termies with 4-6 THSS just for I4 against against Tau/Crons/Orks
But I rock 7 THSS with a Lib and LRR!!

Uh, okay?

**AllYourBase**

I was replying to what i now know was way earlier in the post.. /facepalm

**ChronoDK**

ChronoDK wrote:I'm trying to revive my old 4th edition army, and I have 5 Ogryns with 2 CCW and no ripper guns. Are they useless now?

So - I revive this thread asking a question and everybody starts talking about something else. Please, are my Ogryns useless when armed with 2 CCW and no ripper guns?

**alarmingrick**

ChronoDK wrote:
ChronoDK wrote:I'm trying to revive my old 4th edition army, and I have 5 Ogryns with 2 CCW and no ripper guns. Are they useless now?

So - I revive this thread asking a question and everybody starts talking about something else. Please, are my Ogryns useless when armed with 2 CCW and no ripper guns?

Yes. There is no option for that weapon loadout in the current IG Codex. Ripper guns are the only weapon they have.

**Massaen**

Just strap a big gun on their backs in a sling - as they can not have 2 CCW and have no options to speak of, they would be fine to use then!

**alarmingrick**

Massaen wrote:Just strap a big gun on their backs in a sling - as they can not have 2 CCW and have no options to speak of, they would be fine to use then!

This. Hell, you could use a couple of plastic Autocannons from the IG heavy weapons set, cut down a bit.

**ChronoDK**

Allright, I will try something like that. Too bad they changed the rules. Ogryns look awesome with two CCWs.