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juraigamer wrote:
TOR is just going to be a stepping stone for mmo players, and the first step on the road to redemption for wow players.

I still don't get why some folks hold such a torch for WoW, I mean its not like it came round your house and whizzed all over your cornflakes. I could understand it if you've had something annoying happen, like being banned for no reason, the game blue screened your PC to death, but most of the time it seems to be 'its cool to knock WoW, so I'll join in' with no real rhyme or reason behind it.

If you don't like it I can dig that, but this continued whining and actual hate on how bad it is and how all players must be trapped in limbo having their souls drained away by evil wizards of Blizzard, is getting really old. Time to let it go folks, will keep your blood pressure down. Most folks I know who play have been doing so for thre or four years plus, have all done the year sub deal as they aren't going anywhere and are looking forward to Pandaria.

Not sure why its rubs folks up so bad, but in general I've always lived by the thought if you going to hate something, make sure its actually worth the energy.. I really can't see where folks are coming from, hating a game for being popular.

I like WoW tbh, and occasionally I go back and play for a month here and there. My problems with it are, it gets old, the game itself is REALLY showing its age on many levels, and the community is mostly complete asshats. Id say my personal odds, would be for every 1 good/helpful player, Ill run into 3 total jerk offs. Its a fun game and all sure, but Im looking for that newer looking, newer playing MMO that I can get myself into. Is StarWars that MMO? I dunno, maybe? Not really sure TBH, Ill figure out what that is when I find it though. I REALLY just hope, that when Dark Millennium drops, it doesnt get stale fast, Ill be SO bummed if I get an Ork halfway there, and just want to go play angry birds instead

juraigamer wrote:He's just guessing...[later on]...TOR is just going to be a stepping stone for mmo players, and the first step on the road to redemption for wow players.

There seems to be a lot of guessing going on.

juraigamer wrote:TOR is far too over hyped.

WoW had about the same level of hype leading up to it.

Disclaimer about wow: It's not the game that I hate, it's the majority of it's players and their (plus the games) effect on the mmo market. (creating clones and ignorance)

TOR is going to pull all the bored wow players, the games are far too similar for that not to be the case. TOR is also going to have all the old SW galaxies players and the KOTOR players in addition to that. Just those alone is a massive amount of players. Add to the picture everyone else who is looking for a game, and the fact the game is coming out just before Christmas, and that's a lot of players.

Ok keep with me. Let us say that 2.5 million play the game within the first month. Low ball average here. Removing the average that would be lost for paying to have the discs and whatnot produced, from just these players alone the company would have made 125 million dollars. Their current development cost was listed at above 135 million, so they are still short.

Now considering the average time it takes anyone to play one characters story and reach max level, we can assume 3 months play before people start leaving the game. That's two months of monthly fees, which comes to 75 million. TOR's team has stated that it would take half a million subscribers to keep the game profitable, so keep that in mind.

But why am I saying all this? Simple: to give you the figures so you can understand how much money the game would make from just sales alone, as opposed to monthly fees. Long term, monthly fees will make them more money, but not many are going to really be playing it for more than 3 months based on the information available.

The real reason TOR is going to tank shortly after release is a combination of monthly fees, gameplay, and the fact that it is effective wow with a star wars skin in gameplay. Star wars fans will keep it going longer than anyone else, the KOTOR fans will keep up with it for less time, but the main target audience, the wow crowd, will drop this quickly.

Now if the game didn't have a monthly fee, it would do amazing. Look around, every game that has gone from monthly fee to free to play has made massive profits, and TOR doesn't need to go free to play, they just need to do away with the monthly fee.

But why do they need to do away with the monthly fee? The reason is simple: the game is marketed and shows that you can just play it as a single player mmo (aka KOTOR 3) with the option to play with others. If you have many people playing solo, how long will they stay around? Not much more than 3 months average.

Why do I say 3 months? Because max level is currently 50, and players can reach close to that (level 25-30) in a single weekend of play on one character.

EA is using hype to sell the game, just as they do for the FPS games. No other mmo has been hyped to this magintude to date, not even wow, since the mmo market has grown substantially since wow's release. Using hype to sell a game gives it greater returns in the short run, but not in the long run.

So adding up all the above, I'll go ahead and just stated my educated expectations for TOR: In 4 months time, we will hear about the player count lowering. In 12 months time, an expansion will have come out by then or before this point, but it will only be taking a defibrillator to a dead horse. In 18 months time, we will hear about the game going free to play, and in 24 months time It should achieve that. On month 25-26, news about their amazing profits will emerge, and the game will slowly gain back new and old players from month 24+.

Well now that you put it into detail, I have to say, thats a pretty solid guess, I can get aboard that one. Not to mention, I have started playing the free trial of WoW lately, and my brother and I are getting back in it here shortly Im such a traitor to myself, but I have to say, I havnt played it in a long time, and the changes they made to the game are pretty damn good IMO. So we are thinking, we will get the wives to play along with us, and that gives us 4 right off the bat for dungeons. My brother wants to be a tank, the wife is a hunter fan, his wife will probably be some spell caster, so Ill more then likely play healer. Leaving us with 1 DPS slot to fill, which will be easy peesy.


But thats a different MMO entirely, so Ill stop throwing my own thread OT

How do you figure 3 months and people will quit? I don't necessarily disagree with this, but it seems like a rather random decision. Especially since the story lines are so vastly different for different characters let alone factions.

I'm not sure basing the speed of leveling around poopsockers is the best way to go. I know I won't get anywhere near 25-30 levels in a weekend becuase I don't spend my entire game time just grinding out levels, and I am not the only one.

I also don't think the crossover with Star Wars Galaxies will be all that great as many of the SWG players aren't interested in going from a wide open sandbox game to a theme park style. Certainly there will be some crossover, but the games are radically different. On top of that there is still bitterness over the patch that radically overhauled SWG and killed the fan base.

My buddy was the hugest naysayer about this game, he got into the beta played it and still griped... then he played it more and got his ship. I havent seen him this pleased in a long time with MMO's (he quit WoW in WOTLK when everything went into easy mode).

I guess after you get your ship, the game literally opens up

Ahtman wrote:I'm not sure basing the speed of leveling around poopsockers is the best way to go. I know I won't get anywhere near 25-30 levels in a weekend becuase I don't spend my entire game time just grinding out levels, and I am not the only one.

I also don't think the crossover with Star Wars Galaxies will be all that great as many of the SWG players aren't interested in going from a wide open sandbox game to a theme park style. Certainly there will be some crossover, but the games are radically different. On top of that there is still bitterness over the patch that radically overhauled SWG and killed the fan base.

I read about that in a GameInformer when that happened. I agreed with the outrage. Apparently it used to be pretty lengthy/tough to become a full fledged Jedi for example. And that patch made it pretty damn easy after wards, so the people that actually spent TIME becoming one, basically got the middle finger on that one. And they killed off some really popular classes and all kinds of WTF are you doings?

KingCracker wrote:

Ahtman wrote:I'm not sure basing the speed of leveling around poopsockers is the best way to go. I know I won't get anywhere near 25-30 levels in a weekend becuase I don't spend my entire game time just grinding out levels, and I am not the only one.

I also don't think the crossover with Star Wars Galaxies will be all that great as many of the SWG players aren't interested in going from a wide open sandbox game to a theme park style. Certainly there will be some crossover, but the games are radically different. On top of that there is still bitterness over the patch that radically overhauled SWG and killed the fan base.

I read about that in a GameInformer when that happened. I agreed with the outrage. Apparently it used to be pretty lengthy/tough to become a full fledged Jedi for example. And that patch made it pretty damn easy after wards, so the people that actually spent TIME becoming one, basically got the middle finger on that one. And they killed off some really popular classes and all kinds of WTF are you doings?

That was the FIRST of the terrible overhaul patches. Although, I admit I kind of liked the combat update patch (the one you are referring to). The one that broke the camel's back is the new game experience, where they tried to just turn it into any other MMO.... and failed miserably.

I dont get why MMO companies do things like that. Alienate their fanbase by basically hoeing everyone playing Oh well, lessons learned?

Probably not, it's SoE that screwed all that up. I can't think of a good MMO from them.

Shrike325 wrote:Probably not, it's SoE that screwed all that up. I can't think of a good MMO from them.

EverQuest and its expansions, which pretty much helped define the genre?

But really. The patches for SWG came when the game was already dying, and were in response to fan complaints. It's just a perfect example of the fanbase not liking what they asked for.

Kanluwen wrote:

Shrike325 wrote:Probably not, it's SoE that screwed all that up. I can't think of a good MMO from them.

EverQuest and its expansions, which pretty much helped define the genre?

Derp. I don't know why, but I always forget that EQ was done by SoE.

Maybe because it was actually alright? SoE is where MMOs go to die.

Well, now it is yeah. But that's more because they focus on silly minor aspects rather than the entire game.

SWTOR is not just a stepping stone.

There is a ton of content.

There is endgame.

Operations (Raids) Have *3* different difficulties.

Normal, Hard, Nightmare

You have the modding system.

If you read the Dev tracker on forums, you can have modded gear as good as endgame purps.

And before you complain on that.. read how its done...


There will be expansions, and with the content they have, i have good hope.

Beta ran smooth, they Moved the Early access date to the 13th instead of 15th.

Classes in the game are decently balanced for a new to release mmo. (yes Jedi knight and Sith warrior need some work)

The game will be fine, and its going to be around a good while.

Unlike most mmo's

You have people in it just for star wars.

You have people playing it as a Story alone.
(If people will pay $60 for a xbox game for 1 play through, swtor is a hell of a deal for contect for the price you pay for a few play throughs)

That on top of its a rather good mmo will make it do well.

Look at galaxies.. It lasted how long ? and devs screwed it up how bad ? I that game wasnt star wars, it would have shut down.


"its Freaking star wars"

I'm a Recovering MMO addict and I've been clean for about a year now. I've been feeling the MMO itch for about two months now. I played them all. WOW, WAR, DDO, EVE, Maplestory, Guild Wars, Everquest, Endless Online, Runescape, DAOC. All through Middle and High School( and even after high school, I still played for 6 months before I quit) I did nothing but MMO. I would go to school(or work), go home, Play for 14 straight Hours. Power nap in between load Screens, take a quick Shower and head back to School/work. I quit thanks to my Coworkers and close friends.

Now one of those friends is getting SWTOR and wants me to play with him, Saying that He'll keep me in check and I won't return to the Dark times. I'm resisting as much as I can, but if my Laptop can run it with Game Booster on, and there's a Free Trial, It'll only be a matter of time before I go back to the dark times...

Iur_tae_mont wrote: and there's a Free Trial

See you in 2 years.

Anyone know what server they will be playing on? I know I'll either be starting on the 13th or 14th.

Whatever RP servers there are on launch.

So, considering that the early access has started, is there a group of Dakknauts on a server somewhere?

Thought early access started Thursday?!

My buddies and I will be running a guild, sith side, and all my dakka buddies are welcome!

I will have a server when we roll the chars.

Thinking the guild name will be Perdition.

I should be playing with friends on Daragon Trail server.

osumicrobio wrote:Thought early access started Thursday?!

Got my email today, then again, I pre-ordered the day pre-orders went up.

Oh crap! That is awesome. I preordered through BB and haven't heard anything. I think I may order digital through Origin tonight and just say I wasted $5...

I started reading up and have heard nothing but horror stories about BB's preorders.

Did you register it on the webpage? You need to if you haven't yet. And if you do now, you'll probably be late in the pre-release.

Shrike325 wrote:Did you register it on the webpage? You need to if you haven't yet. And if you do now, you'll probably be late in the pre-release.

There is this, plus they are staggered invitations to keep everyone from logging on all at once. More people who will be added each day.

I'm on Port Nowhere server.

Port Nowhere? Is that where we want to set up?

Is that a PvP server?

osumicrobio wrote:Port Nowhere? Is that where we want to set up?

Is that a PvP server?

It is a PvP server, and I have no idea on the former. Are we even going to try and have dakka people on a server? Not necessarily a guild, but just a common server.

I'm on Mind Trick, personally.