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Albatross wrote:
No, I haven't. I have been in more than enough actual fights to know that, almost without exception, they are nasty, brutal and short. The same is true of incidents involving blades - the idea of two opponents circling and dancing around each other, looking for an opening is, as I said earlier, a fantasy.
Not a fantasy, a street fantasy.
It is somewhat distasteful to write off accounts of how dueling is done just because tanked up chavs with switchblades or kitchen knives do not circle and look for an opening.
For a start not thinking defensively first but just rushing in with a blade is indicative that knife use is all thuggery and little or no training. Real martial artists of all stripes think defensively first.
I think I see the problem we're having - my imagined encounter takes place in a world roughly similar to the one we currently inhabit, and not renaissance Florence. Knife 'duels' are not commonplace.
and that is because no person in their right mind would admit to being a member of a society which engages in said knife duelling since that would get everyone's ass arrested. I did not know that there was a knife fighting ring in my city, and it's clearly downplayed for a reason. We had a spree of gang "warfare" a few years ago, it was small peas with big media attention, that same "war" is going on now.... prance around as you like, but just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. "Čo oko nevidí, to srdce nebolí"--what the eye does not behold does not grieve the heart. It's like saying nobody ever plays/played russian roulette...
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
Samus_aran115 wrote:I have a Kabar for knife fighting, which probably will never happen. What was this thread about again?
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
had a decent knife collection going. few k-bars, couple CRKT tactical folders, bunch of spyderco/coldsteel/whatever fluffy folders, BM42 and a few practice balisongs, and tons of trash knives and pawnshop swords.
poda_t wrote:
and that is because no person in their right mind would admit to being a member of a society which engages in said knife duelling since that would get everyone's ass arrested.
Mensur fencing, which is proper dueling to first blood is still alive and sticking in Germany, particularly in Bavaria. And its legal.
Those who practice believe that facing steel is the true test for a gentleman.
Knife fighting it taught to many militaries and some martial aerts including Krav Maga. Most knife work is suprise attack, but you may also learn how to fight knife to knife.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/29 21:52:39
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Back in my fencing days I read an article about the Schlager in American Fencing magazine, but I thought it was still technically illegal. I guess not!
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MartiniPunk wrote:had a decent knife collection going. few k-bars, couple CRKT tactical folders, bunch of spyderco/coldsteel/whatever fluffy folders, BM42 and a few practice balisongs, and tons of trash knives and pawnshop swords.
oh and i got a SOG seal pup the other day
aklsjdfnkjadk jkc
SEAL pups are gorgeous. Was just looking at one the other day. Almost everything SOG makes is gorgeous.
I'm looking forward to getting a few throwing knives in the near future. It's not a usable skill, but I get a kick out of it. You can't really throw a Kabar (mostly because it's not covered by warranty), so I have to get something else.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/29 23:37:30
poda_t wrote: and that is because no person in their right mind would admit to being a member of a society which engages in said knife duelling since that would get everyone's ass arrested.
Mensur fencing, which is proper dueling to first blood is still alive and sticking in Germany, particularly in Bavaria. And its legal. Those who practice believe that facing steel is the true test for a gentleman.
Knife fighting it taught to many militaries and some martial aerts including Krav Maga. Most knife work is suprise attack, but you may also learn how to fight knife to knife.
there is a recognized difference between things that are considered either sport or martial art, and those that are more or less gambling or gutter fighting. People will not admit to crime, so my little boat still floats!.
Edited text to make sense
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/30 02:15:11
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
My local surplus store sells USMC NCO ceremonial swords missing their Sheaths for 50 bucks.
Sounds like a good deal. Should I bite? I've held them and they're relatively heavy, but it seems like you could put a nice edge on them.... Maybe. My dad was a Staff Sergeant, but apparently he never received one, which surprises me, considering he guarded the embassy in Iraq for most of his tour. Seems like a duty that would put him in his blues often enough to warrant a dress sword.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/30 00:27:52
poda_t wrote:
and that is because no person in their right mind would admit to being a member of a society which engages in said knife duelling since that would get everyone's ass arrested.
Mensur fencing, which is proper dueling to first blood is still alive and sticking in Germany, particularly in Bavaria. And its legal.
Those who practice believe that facing steel is the true test for a gentleman.
Knife fighting it taught to many militaries and some martial aerts including Krav Maga. Most knife work is suprise attack, but you may also learn how to fight knife to knife.
there is a difference between recognized difference between things that are recognized either sport or martial art, and those that are more or less gambling or gutter fighting. People will not admit to crime, so my little boat still floats!.
I am not here to sing your little boat. However skills related to martial arts often cross into street fighting. Eastern martial arts are especially popular amongst many thuggish types, do not be suprised if even a chav has some knowledge about how to use melee weapons.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Mace are nice weapons. They can be longer that swords or shorter. While they are blunt impact weapons they need not weigh more than swords either. In fact a proper mace shouldn't, just so long as the weight it has is concentrated at the end and the head is the right shape..
Mace work because of weight distribution, not raw mass. For that you need a maul (sledgehammer). A maul if heavy work and while devastating is hard to use properly, the mace is deceptively destructive.
One story I have regards a bloke you picked up someones mace at a an exhibition to feel the weight. He passed it to an organiser (not a member of the reenactment group) who held the mace then relaxed his arm letting the mace 'flop' down to his side. The head of the mace connected with a shield lying against a wall and broke it in two.
If gravity and a lazy drop can break a shield what is going to happen if you swing it with force?
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Orlanth wrote:
I am not here to sing your little boat. However skills related to martial arts often cross into street fighting. Eastern martial arts are especially popular amongst many thuggish types, do not be suprised if even a chav has some knowledge about how to use melee weapons.
It also helps that the majority of fundamental marshal arts techniques amount to "I am not an idiot, and have been in a fight before."
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Medium of Death wrote:What about a Mace?
I think bringing a mace to a knife fight would be top notch. My money would be on that gentleman.
Its still a skill question. Maces do not necessarily require the wielder's strength to do damage, but they are necessarily slow weapons (relative to a knife) due to the placement of the majority of mass at the head. This also makes them difficult to thrust with, at least without using both hands for a short blow (which, ultimately, favors the knife wielder).
The best thing you can bring to a knife fight is anything that you can use (effectively) to keep your opponent from closing with you, or with which you can engage them on their owns terms while having a longer reach. Most practically (limited to melee weapons) this means a shortsword, or long dagger; the speed is comparable and you win the thrust. A longsword is also a sound choice, as it remains reasonably quick while also outreaching the knife. Any two-handed weapon will also do well, given their added reach, at least provided the wielder keeps the knife man away.
Axes and maces, however, will suffer for their lack of flexibility in close. The weight distribution there does not favor close fighting, and the shorter length makes it harder to keep foes at bay.
To put it simply, nothing really beats a knife (or longer equivalent) at close range. The trick is simply keeping the knife wielder back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/31 07:49:10
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Clearly axes are the best weapons because Druss the legend fought half a million nadir with one.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Samus_aran115 wrote:My local surplus store sells USMC NCO ceremonial swords missing their Sheaths for 50 bucks.
Sounds like a good deal. Should I bite? I've held them and they're relatively heavy, but it seems like you could put a nice edge on them.... Maybe. My dad was a Staff Sergeant, but apparently he never received one, which surprises me, considering he guarded the embassy in Iraq for most of his tour. Seems like a duty that would put him in his blues often enough to warrant a dress sword.
Sounds like a great deal, however, what kind of shape are they in and would you require a sheath? If its for your wall or messing with why not? Seems like I recall those going for a bit more typically. Cheap knockoff maybe? If so, I would shy away from that.
Samus_aran115 wrote:My local surplus store sells USMC NCO ceremonial swords missing their Sheaths for 50 bucks.
Sounds like a good deal. Should I bite? I've held them and they're relatively heavy, but it seems like you could put a nice edge on them.... Maybe. My dad was a Staff Sergeant, but apparently he never received one, which surprises me, considering he guarded the embassy in Iraq for most of his tour. Seems like a duty that would put him in his blues often enough to warrant a dress sword.
Sounds like a great deal, however, what kind of shape are they in and would you require a sheath? If its for your wall or messing with why not? Seems like I recall those going for a bit more typically. Cheap knockoff maybe? If so, I would shy away from that.
I've picked them up and fiddled with them. Seems like the guys who donated them or whatever wrapped them in mass amounts of duct tape previously (probably to make transporting them easier), which left an icky residue on them that I'd imagine would come off with goo-gone or lighter fluid.
Handles are a bit scratched and used, with some of the steel showing from the rubbed off gold, I guess.
Given these facts, I still think 50 bucks is a fantastic deal. I think a lot of people would pay 50 bucks for just the blade, which is nice.
However, I'm out of cash, lol. It'll have to wait. Not too many people go in there looking for dress uniforms though, so they could be there a while.
Hello,
Ref: the NCO sword,
One thing to think about is what is your intend purpose of this blade, they are often stainless steel, which can make the edge somewhat brittle, and the blade will have no flex. You mentioned that they had a residue on them, this is often a packing grease and is nasty as feth, it will come off but some of the polish (if plated) may as well. Most of these I have seen have had brass furniture so definatly inspect before you buy. If you get to do a closer inspection also check where the blade is made, if in Pakistan, you have a knock off. Good luck!
Regards,
Carl
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Dogma wrote
Axes and maces, however, will suffer for their lack of flexibility in close. The weight distribution there does not favor close fighting, and the shorter length makes it harder to keep foes at bay.
Pfff, tell that to all the things killed by the lowly tomahawk. That IS my tool/weapon of choice in the apocalypse. Its an incredibly handy tool, AND a very deadly and well balanced weapon.
US marines carry around tomahawks? News to me, although I don't have a problem believing it. Tomahawks are awesome. Should have bought that hand-chipped stone tomahawk I saw at a native american festival.
Well, our military doesnt officially (last I knew of it anyways) carry tomahawks, but I remember reading/watching somewhere, that some groups either are testing out the usefulness of the tomahawk, or they allow the personnel to carry them, I cant remember. But yea, not officially.
And for reals, you can fudge up an attacker with a tomahawk. Pat your Royal Marine friend on the back, and tell him good job on going old school
Someone earlier mentioned Saxon swords.. Recently watched a documentary on the Vikings (the one group that I have been seriously eyeing their swords for collecting in the near future), and they talked about the archeological finds of their swords, talking mostly about the quality, or lack thereof in them.
The thing is, Vikings had to peat mine their iron. This means that the iron they got out of a furnace was of much purer stock than almost anywhere else in Europe (or anywhere that used iron stock). One would assume automatically that because the Vikings had such great iron for weapon and tool making, that they would surpass all others. But they'd be wrong. Apparently their construction techniques, the formation of 4 pieces of iron bar, 2 of which were twisted into the blood groove, left the overall sword somewhat weaker than it should have been.
What we are left with, archaeologically, is a crappy sword of the highest quality metal. Somehow, the two factors evened out to an "average" sword of the period.
I do not (yet) practice any martial arts of any variety with swords, but right now my interest as a student of medieval military history is definitely in the metallurgical and blacksmithing realm, as smithing has always caught my eye.
I have a few wooden practice swords and other weapons. I don't plan on getting a real one due to risk to myself or others in the house if an intruder finds it.
I'd like to note the chainsword I'm holding in my avatar isn't mine but a friends. (Freaking huge.)
Speaking from personally experience sparring with friends I can say I know why most medieval armies choose a spear or polearm to equip a lot of troops. Quite easy to get a decent idea of what your doing.
I however agree with Orlanth on most of what he said
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/12 21:13:06
"Praise Be To The Omissiah!"
"Three things make the Empire great: Faith, Steel and Gunpowder!"
Azarath Metrion Zinthos
Expect my posts to have a bazillion edits. I miss out letters, words, sometimes even entire sentences in my points and posts.
poda_t wrote:Actually there's a knife fighting ring among the hobos in my city. There are regular hospitalizations. Italy is the kinfe fighting "capital of the world", and while the human body is capable of taking an immense ammount of punishment, when an actual knife fight happens, its usually why you hear a news report of someone being dead after thirteen stab wounds. considering every thrust is supposed to be followed up by a c-cut to slice open body tissue, there's not much more punishment youll be able to handle after receivng a stab to your stomach followed by a c-cut to your abdomen.
And you are right, people don't lay down, its why you get the highest rate of double death in knife fights.
Which means knives aren't nearly as lethal as you think they are. If they were there would be a lower incidence of double death. What it really means is that the person stabbed has more than enough time to kill you.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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I think I might have been reading too much rurouni kenshin lately, but I'm really interested in Katanas all the sudden. While I don't have any money for one at the moment, I'd certainly enjoy one when I actually do have money, so I'd like to give it some thought.
Anyone know of any websites that do custom orders? I swear I've seen a couple, but I can't find them on school computers.
Spoiler:
I'd like something that can actually be sharpened to a very fine edge (not execution sharp, but sharp enough to chop someone's hand off, lol) and that feels solid. A nice pattern on the blade (like gentle waves) would be cool.
As for the handle, a red wood of some sort would be fantastic, maybe dark grey. Anything but black.
It's not illegal to own a sharpened katana, is it? You can own a machete, so.... )
Well when it comes to Katanas and the like, I can tell you a few tips. Make sure the sword has a FULL tang. Alot of companies make these types of swords with whats called a rat tail tang, and that is garbage. Swords like that are barely suited to sitting on a wall. And some are so terribly make that 1 full swing could break the sword. So make sure its a full tang. And if your looking for a good, made Katana, be prepared to spend a bit.
Check your state for laws, but Im pretty sure most states have no laws keeping someone from owning a sword. I wouldnt carry one around, as that might be illegal, but again check with your state laws. I know around where I live, I can carry my Claymore around open. As long as I dont try to hide it in my pocket or something
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/10 20:44:58
KingCracker wrote:Well when it comes to Katanas and the like, I can tell you a few tips. Make sure the sword has a FULL tang. Alot of companies make these types of swords with whats called a rat tail tang, and that is garbage. Swords like that are barely suited to sitting on a wall. And some are so terribly make that 1 full swing could break the sword. So make sure its a full tang. And if your looking for a good, made Katana, be prepared to spend a bit.
Check your state for laws, but Im pretty sure most states have no laws keeping someone from owning a sword. I wouldnt carry one around, as that might be illegal, but again check with your state laws. I know around where I live, I can carry my Claymore around open. As long as I dont try to hide it in my pocket or something
Haha, yeah, you'd probably get in a bit of trouble for that (or a mental asylum).
Thanks, I looked into it, and full tang seems to be the ONLY way to go. It's possible for a full tang to break at the hilt, but hundreds of times less likely than a rat tail tang. I'd say I'd be prepared to spend at least a thousand. The way I see it, if I'm going to have a weapon hung up on the wall that could actually save my life (unlikely though), I should be prepared to shell out for a nice one.
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