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KingCracker wrote:The only REAL sword I have, is a really badass Claymore my brother bought me for my birthday some years ago. The others are not really what I would call swords and such, they are cheap ass/poorly made junk that resembles swords. Ive got an executioners Axe, that was suppose to be of good quality, but it actually broke with me just messing around swinging it, not even hitting anything. So now it looks all hodged podged but its tough as nails now I plan on chopping it up and making it a bit smaller/easier to use, because the current way its built, its VERY unbalanced.
Claymore

my god, I want to shoop you into a picture with skyrim so badly.

Orlanth wrote:

DIDM wrote:


ancient swords that are sharper than modern technology can make.

Katanas are probably the most overhyped weapons around, even the hype surrounding modern arms fairs pales in comparison to the legendary +5 razor sword of Japness.

Sure there are some nice ones, but Damascus steel or Toledo steel will match that. The Saxons also made swords in a manner reminiscent to the swordmaking techniques of the Japanese, except they would twist the metal rather than fold it. It led to some very interesting metallurgy.

A true 'ancient' katana, as in per Meiji Restoration century Japanese is likely to be quite fragile, even when new. Yes it tends to self sharpen, yes it has a nice edge but a good field sword from a quality European armourer will put it to shame, the western design is a superior fighting blade in almost every way..

And yet, you will still have the hard-core asian martial-artists raving that the asian arms and combat are the best, disregarding that europe had honed the art of slaughter to a sicence. If we consider notions of honor, the pistol is to the west what the katana is to the east. (duelling)

I loved when I got into a verbal "discussion" with someone about blades and the advantages of their design. The "discussion" consisted of a systematic trashing of european martial art, and an unwillingness to make any concessions on design advantages to the european blades. The tool had never even done martial arts either, just watched off of youtube.... I will grant to asian blades that they are VERY good looking, and well-designed for an awesome balance of speed and savage cuts.... but it was designed for a different culture centered on honor. I'm not meaning to be rude and put the katana down, but it has a different design principle in mind. It's the same reason a cavalry saber is just that, or a rapier exits. Different roles to fill.

Now as sharp as a asian weapons may be, even a barely sharpened claymore (love it KC... love it) will cleave through things by the sheer impetus of its own weight. I could go on for a while, because

InquisitorVaron wrote:Does having a Slayer Sword count?

The only cold steel I have is a kitchen knife, more of a Air Rifle person.

Hey yea Im into those as well, my brother the Giant and I like to go small game hunting with them on his property.

DeathReaper wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:Orks charge Empire Greatswords?

Weird, I thought Empire Greatswords were a fantasy unit...

They are, but then again, so are orks...

Incorrect sir, ORCS are in Fantasy, ORKS are in 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necroshea wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The only REAL sword I have, is a really badass Claymore my brother bought me for my birthday some years ago. The others are not really what I would call swords and such, they are cheap ass/poorly made junk that resembles swords. Ive got an executioners Axe, that was suppose to be of good quality, but it actually broke with me just messing around swinging it, not even hitting anything. So now it looks all hodged podged but its tough as nails now I plan on chopping it up and making it a bit smaller/easier to use, because the current way its built, its VERY unbalanced.
Claymore

my god, I want to shoop you into a picture with skyrim so badly.

DO IT! You know you want to (and I want to see it )

Necroshea wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The only REAL sword I have, is a really badass Claymore my brother bought me for my birthday some years ago. The others are not really what I would call swords and such, they are cheap ass/poorly made junk that resembles swords. Ive got an executioners Axe, that was suppose to be of good quality, but it actually broke with me just messing around swinging it, not even hitting anything. So now it looks all hodged podged but its tough as nails now I plan on chopping it up and making it a bit smaller/easier to use, because the current way its built, its VERY unbalanced.
Claymore
*Awesome Picture*

my god, I want to shoop you into a picture with skyrim so badly.

Photoshop him in so that he's standing on the head of a dead Dragon.

I have a 2.45 Shaku Iaito and also a Shinken of the same length. Some day I will have a Master made sword!

Technically my dad's but he keeps telling me his weapons are mine too
L1A1 SLR Bayonet.
Lee Enfield No.4 Bayonet.
Sword concealed within walking cane. (I'm an English gent, what of it?)
Reindeer Herders Knife

Actually mine:
A Roman-esque dagger bought cheaply in Majorca, still quite good quality.

The OC-D

Hello,
I collect swords as well as fight with them, I have around 30+ show blades and about 20 fighting blades. Most of my blades are made here in the states out of tool steel, and my personal favorites were made here in Michigan where I live. These are a couple of them. I also build my own armor as well, so I do tend to have fun with the blades. That said I have broke a good share of them as well.

Regards,
Carl

poda_t wrote:
And yet, you will still have the hard-core asian martial-artists raving that the asian arms and combat are the best, disregarding that europe had honed the art of slaughter to a sicence. If we consider notions of honor, the pistol is to the west what the katana is to the east. (duelling)

The advantage far eadtern martial arts have is purely to do with accessibility to authentic, or near authentic training. Thr eastern traditions of moves and katas are more rigid than that in western fighting arts, which solely consisted of drill and individual combo moves. The result was the same but the preparation different.

You can go to a dojo and learn kendo, which is a reasonable if toned down version of the Japanese sword fighting art. While the Messerfechter is still under interpretation let alone far less well known or propogated.

Still I consider the field rapier (for thrusting) and cavalry sabre (for cutting) the epitomy of the fighting blade. They were of practical use right up until the development of the modern rifle, and remain even today in Mensur societies.

As far as duelling is concerned , pistol duelling is acceptable means to seek satisfaction, however melee combat is prefered, facing steel with steel even if unskilled is far more honourable than lowering a barrel and giving fire. The only way to fight an honour duel with pistols is to shoot second, without an undue aiming advantage, best of all to receive fire then deliberately turn ones own piece away before giving fire oneself. That is not only honourable but shows up the other guy.
Wild West 'stand and draw' doesn't really count, thats more sanctioned gun crime than duelling. Real duelling with firearms requires single shot piece only.

poda_t wrote:
I loved when I got into a verbal "discussion" with someone about blades and the advantages of their design. The "discussion" consisted of a systematic trashing of european martial art, and an unwillingness to make any concessions on design advantages to the european blades.

Seen that dragged out more than enough times. *Yawn*

poda_t wrote:
The tool had never even done martial arts either, just watched off of youtube....

YouTube is neutral, there are some good quality instructional videos based mostly on Talhoffer's publications. I highly recommend the MEMAG videos linked below:

Got medieval?

poda_t wrote:
I will grant to asian blades that they are VERY good looking, and well-designed for an awesome balance of speed and savage cuts.... but it was designed for a different culture centered on honor. I'm not meaning to be rude and put the katana down, but it has a different design principle in mind. It's the same reason a cavalry saber is just that, or a rapier exits. Different roles to fill.

Not so much a different prijnciple as different metallurgy, Japanese iron is poor quality and smelting technologies were inferior, Japanese swordmaking arts were developed not for uber quality but to make a quality blade from inferior raw materials. In this I must admit they were successful.

poda_t wrote:
Now as sharp as a asian weapons may be, even a barely sharpened claymore (love it KC... love it) will cleave through things by the sheer impetus of its own weight.

Real claymores would be sharp edged but the edge would widen almost immediately to strengthen the blade to make the sharpness irrelevant. Later claymores resembled huge field rapiers and included even basket hilts. However old style of new the claymore was not the wunderwaffe it looks. The weapon is damn slow, the zweihander is much better because its longer and faster. There are some really nice zweihander moves illustrated in the videoes beyond the link above..
Claymores however are deathtraps, sure they look menacing but that didnt help at Culloden, claymore armed fighters died in droves on bayonets, and a dedicated melee weapon is normally superior to a bayonet. Other swords get under or past a claymore very easily and in both pre-swing or just after the swing you are wide open to a lethal strike and predicatable even if you do survive. There is a good reason why greatswordsmen tended to wear heavy plate.. A weapon that big is best used as an executioners sword, when you are tied up and on the block you arent parrying and a heavy one hit kill weapon is what is needed.

The claymore earns points for menace, but leave it to roll the bigger damage dice in fantasy RPG's, reenactors, and historical mad Celts who should have known better.

My grandfather has a pretty sizable collection of swords and other assorted weapons from his youth (where he went around the world knicking stuff...or soldiering to ye dakkanauts). He's also pretty big on fencing and other forms of sword fighting....but this also led to him getting divorced from my gran after he almost accidently beheaded her one day in their kitchen. =/

I agree with Orlanth completely. Besides, it not just about the weapons themselves but how they are used

[quote=Orlanth
The claymore earns points for menace, but leave it to roll the bigger damage dice in fantasy RPG's, reenactors, and historical mad Celts who should have known better.

No kilij love?

let's see

a crappy chinese sword i bought when i was younger
a superb french Sword cane
some fencing foil
AND what i'm really proud of:
a george V, the sword of my great grandfather, who was an officier in the canadian army during WW1.

KingCracker wrote:The only REAL sword I have, is a really badass Claymore my brother bought me for my birthday some years ago. The others are not really what I would call swords and such, they are cheap ass/poorly made junk that resembles swords. Ive got an executioners Axe, that was suppose to be of good quality, but it actually broke with me just messing around swinging it, not even hitting anything. So now it looks all hodged podged but its tough as nails now I plan on chopping it up and making it a bit smaller/easier to use, because the current way its built, its VERY unbalanced.
Claymore

you grew past your hair dude epic sword though.. reminds me of a dreadknight

KingCracker. Please accept my most humble offering of a portrait of your most fearsome visage. Orikfied to the best of my (pretty horrible) abilities.

Suddenly, I have the want to add serrated edges on my sword, and own a golden helmet

I didn't know what clan you collected so i stayed safe with a nice yellow.

I didnt mess around with the beard out of fear of retribution. Never mess with a mans pride and joy. I learnt that the hard way when i was young. Tugged on my dads beard and got scalding hot tea spilt on me for my troubles.

KingCracker wrote:The only REAL sword I have, is a really badass Claymore my brother bought me for my birthday some years ago. The others are not really what I would call swords and such, they are cheap ass/poorly made junk that resembles swords. Ive got an executioners Axe, that was suppose to be of good quality, but it actually broke with me just messing around swinging it, not even hitting anything. So now it looks all hodged podged but its tough as nails now I plan on chopping it up and making it a bit smaller/easier to use, because the current way its built, its VERY unbalanced.
Claymore

I bet that I could walk up to you, lather you up and shave your entire face and head by the time you swing that thing once. That's why I would prefer a good quality knife. Perhaps one of those marine corps knives with the storage in the handle. I've heard they're nearly indestructible.

I have got a couple of crappy display weapons for christmas, when I quite demonstrably requested something else. This year, all my christmas requests are dark eldar in nature, and if I get another sword, I'm gonna use it on whoever gave it. Not fatally, just gonna give 'em a memorable scar.

Tell ya what Warpcrafter, Ill let you try doing just that. And Id bet my life savings you wouldnt walk away untouched and me clean shaved. Against a knife, I wouldnt want to be the guy with the knife. A skilled swordmen OTOH, yea the claymore isnt so graceful.

A longbow would make fairly short work of you...
I mean a claymore is big and all but not that big...
Though it does look scarier...

I dont think you could even compare the kill factor a bow brings to the table specially if you bring a few friends with bows as well. Up close, I certainly wouldnt use this thing thats for sure. Its a for real claymore, and built incredibly well, and its pretty in my eyes, but yea, if I had to fight without a firearm? I certainly would grab something easier to wield

KingCracker wrote:Tell ya what Warpcrafter, Ill let you try doing just that. And Id bet my life savings you wouldnt walk away untouched and me clean shaved. Against a knife, I wouldnt want to be the guy with the knife. A skilled swordmen OTOH, yea the claymore isnt so graceful.

Agreed, the claymore is wide open to a swordsman or spearman but not a knife unless it was thrown or you had total suprise.

Give King Cracker full plate though and the claymore is suddenly a lot nastier. Yes you get to strike last and are slow and clumsy in all respects, but you can take the quick jabs, you only needcone good swing.

Even so in armoured combat a sword and shield, or poleaxe will better serve. If you want a greatsword take a zwerch, that you can use armoured or unarmoured and is *not* slow.

Even without armour, there's nowhere (apart from my face) that anyone could stab me with a knife that would stop me hacking off their head with that sword. Knives just don't have that instant stopping power.

Albatross wrote:Even without armour, there's nowhere (apart from my face) that anyone could stab me with a knife that would stop me hacking off their head with that sword. Knives just don't have that instant stopping power.

actually, they do. It's why knife fights have the highest instance of double-death; speed of reaction and the fact that you can go at someone like a sowing machine.

Orlanth wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Tell ya what Warpcrafter, Ill let you try doing just that. And Id bet my life savings you wouldnt walk away untouched and me clean shaved. Against a knife, I wouldnt want to be the guy with the knife. A skilled swordmen OTOH, yea the claymore isnt so graceful.

Agreed, the claymore is wide open to a swordsman or spearman but not a knife unless it was thrown or you had total suprise.

Give King Cracker full plate though and the claymore is suddenly a lot nastier. Yes you get to strike last and are slow and clumsy in all respects, but you can take the quick jabs, you only needcone good swing.

Even so in armoured combat a sword and shield, or poleaxe will better serve. If you want a greatsword take a zwerch, that you can use armoured or unarmoured and is *not* slow.

Claymore isn't wide open to single sword (I presume one-handed battle sword) or spear. He has the power to blast straight through single sword's parry, and chop the point off the spear.

Greatswords of all sorts are a bit slower than single swords. They also greatly outreach single swords, so you only get to swing if you survive to get inside his swing. And unless he is dumb enough to baseball swing that thing (which proves he has no idea how to use it, congratulations, you just beat a newb), he's not going to have that much trouble recovering the swing and either blocking your shot, or counterattacking by powering through your shot.

Give single sword/spear a shield, on the other hand, and now greatsword is in trouble.

Knife is dead meat. Unless Greatsword is a newb and baseball swings, knife (even paired knives) will never get close enough to strike. Knife's only hope is in the throw.

Don't discount his close-combat capabilities either. He's got a good foot of blade below the riccasso to choke up on for midrange work. Get in closer and he'll just slug you one - that's not a skinny boy hefting the claymore there.

Grabbing a sword just to scare someone can get you shot while you are threatening; whereas if you close quickly and strike he won't have time to draw.

Assuming one starts within 10' or so, anyway.

Teuller drill. 20-25 feet is more appropriate when dealing with a holstered handgun and a blade wielding lunatic that is remotely in shape. This is also with a -knife-...nothing like a sword, or pike, or whatever pointy nastiness that strikes your fancy.

I took kendo for a couple years. Having said that, I've never used a real one, and I'd be willing to bet it would be a whole other animal.

I make katanas out of thesehttp://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Cords-Cord-Management-Cord-Management-Raceways-Non-Metallic-Electric-Raceway-Channels/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmm8/R-100204408/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

You cut them to your desired length (27 3/4 inch for me) and slide the tubes over each other, so they make an oval shaped thing. Run it over your leg until you get a good curve, and then wrap something around it for a handle. Works great for whacking things or scaring wild animals out of the house. That, and it hurts pretty bad to get hit with it, so you could possible use it as a defense weapon. I figured out how to do this on accident when I was a kid. I liked that I could use one as a sword. Then I made a darth maul lightsaber with two, and then figured out that they work way better as a single sword

poda_t wrote:

Albatross wrote:Even without armour, there's nowhere (apart from my face) that anyone could stab me with a knife that would stop me hacking off their head with that sword. Knives just don't have that instant stopping power.

actually, they do. It's why knife fights have the highest instance of double-death; speed of reaction and the fact that you can go at someone like a sowing machine.

Have you ever actually been in a fight, knife or otherwise? Human beings can take an incredible amount of damage before they stop ticking. It's the adrenaline. People don't just lay down and die when they get stabbed.

Speaking anecdotally, I know at least one person who has been knifed and not realised it for a minute or two. The guy got knifed in the back at a concert, and only found out when someone told him he had blood all over his shirt. He thought he'd been punched. Such stories are not uncommon.

Oh, and 'knife fights' don't exist outside of the imaginations of teenage boys, incidentally.

Actually there's a knife fighting ring among the hobos in my city. There are regular hospitalizations. Italy is the kinfe fighting "capital of the world", and while the human body is capable of taking an immense ammount of punishment, when an actual knife fight happens, its usually why you hear a news report of someone being dead after thirteen stab wounds. considering every thrust is supposed to be followed up by a c-cut to slice open body tissue, there's not much more punishment youll be able to handle after receivng a stab to your stomach followed by a c-cut to your abdomen.

And you are right, people don't lay down, its why you get the highest rate of double death in knife fights.