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Yeah, DE need evil to live, and that is awesome and nearly a palindrome.

pretre wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Um hm. I would have liked if they had maybe made some of the dark eldar aware that they're under a curse and maybe some who try to curb their natural dark natures.

There are plenty of forces in the fluff that have dark natures and are seeking redemption. Do we really need another one?

Not all of them, a minority of Dark eldar just to spread it out a bit. A bit like not all Necrons are all about destroying all life (some now have vassels) but you have plenty of necrons who do.

Who wants redemption on the bad guys side?

Only one I can think of is some of the necrons like the young king.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Um hm. I would have liked if they had maybe made some of the dark eldar aware that they're under a curse and maybe some who try to curb their natural dark natures.

There are plenty of forces in the fluff that have dark natures and are seeking redemption. Do we really need another one?

Not all of them, a minority of Dark eldar just to spread it out a bit. A bit like not all Necrons are all about destroying all life (some now have vassels) but you have plenty of necrons who do.

Who wants redemption on the bad guys side?

Only one I can think of is some of the necrons like the young king.

Wait, who's the bad guys? You mean 'non-Imperial'? Tau and Eldar might argue that point.

Some Chaos have fluffy 'we are not really bad' stories in there though. Farsight probably has a bit to atone for. Mostly redemption seeking is an human thing. Most xenos don't care about it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and by the way, DA, BT, BA, IG and SOB all have strong redemptive motives in all or part of their codex.

pretre wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Um hm. I would have liked if they had maybe made some of the dark eldar aware that they're under a curse and maybe some who try to curb their natural dark natures.

There are plenty of forces in the fluff that have dark natures and are seeking redemption. Do we really need another one?

Not all of them, a minority of Dark eldar just to spread it out a bit. A bit like not all Necrons are all about destroying all life (some now have vassels) but you have plenty of necrons who do.

Who wants redemption on the bad guys side?

Only one I can think of is some of the necrons like the young king.

Wait, who's the bad guys? You mean 'non-Imperial'? Tau and Eldar might argue that point.

Some Chaos have fluffy 'we are not really bad' stories in there though. Farsight probably has a bit to atone for. Mostly redemption seeking is an human thing. Most xenos don't care about it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and by the way, DA, BT, BA, IG and SOB all have strong redemptive motives in all or part of their codex.

Aye, blood angels are a definete example and even some space wolf tales. Twilight marines. I thought you were refering to the evil(er) guys. Funny, I kind of read some sense of doubt in Chapters Due for Honsou during several lines in that book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you think they might make the fluff of the next dex that the ecclesiarchy is actually (despite the decree passive) amassing power for itself again and some of the sisters are actually aiding them (or unaware/tricked)? Or would that be too much of a shift away from paragons of virtue to exist alongside how sisters are at the minute?

Unlikely that the sisters would allow it. After all, sisters are still trying to atone for the last time they let themselves be used like that.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Do you think they might make the fluff of the next dex that the ecclesiarchy is actually (despite the decree passive) amassing power for itself again and some of the sisters are actually aiding them (or unaware/tricked)?

That's an interesting question.

The Ecclesiarchy is very much fond of its influence and doesn't shy away from abusing religion to denounce and excommunicate political rivals. The Sisters of Battle seem to have carte blanche when it comes to assessing the spiritual purity of the Imperium's forces and its citizens, and as such are the perfect tool for applying pressure or removing rivals outright. That said, the Orders Militant operate under direct command of the Ecclesiarch, which at least removes individual Cardinals as the source of wrongful orders (indeed, often enough it is Apostate Cardinals who are targeted for elimination by a Sororitas strike team) and allows the Sisters to pursue another of their duties with minimal interference: policing the Ecclesiarchy itself, for they are not only its guardians but also its watchers. In this task they are joined by the Ordo Hereticus, which keeps a watchful eyes on the activities of the Imperial Cult, its Inquisitors able to call on the Adepta Sororitas to reliably remove troublesome individuals (including any supporter the heretic would have corrupted with his ideas). The Sisters remember the Vandirian apostasy full-well and as such the Canonesses of the Orders Militant are bound to permanent vigilance, stuck between proper respect towards officials of the Church and their duty to faith alone.

Now, the Ecclesiarchy has been flaunting the spirit of the Decree Passive for some time, yet its Frateris Militia are ill-equipped and improperly trained, and the couple thousand Sisters who in turn have the training and the gear are much too few in numbers to pose any challenge to Imperial order. The Orders Militant are spread out across the entirety of Imperial space (and at times beyond) and so involved into just keeping the status quo that they would have to abandon all their tasks to amass a sizable force, not to mention that such troop movements would surely be detected by the Inquisition. The visible military might of the Ecclesiarch is a far cry from what Vandire had at his disposal.

So, to sum it up, whilst the Sisters seem like the obvious threat on the first glance, I think the greater danger lies with the Ecclesiarchy's ties into the nobility, the Imperial Guard and the Navy, for no Imperial force (sans Space Marines of course) is without a Confessor, and many officers are religious enough to have an open ear to the suggestions of these emissaries. Which is why it occasionally happens that an Ecclesiarchy-only War of Faith is joined by naval warships or entire Guard regiments, for example. Such is the influence of the Imperial Cult.


PS @ Veteran Sergeant: After having cooled my head for a little I would like to apologize. I stand by my opinion - including the only motif I can think of that warranted your posts - but I should have worded my responses more carefully. I suppose, in the end it just comes down to both of us having read different things, and our perceptions having, uh, "evolved" accordingly. I'll freely admit that I am a fan of the SoB (which is why I have collected so much fluff about them in the first place), so my defensive attitude should be understandable, even if I will say that I may as well have backed out earlier. As others have said, that debate really couldn't go anywhere from the start.