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It seems Draigo-wing was overwhelmed by the Necrons. Necrons chalks up another win.

I used to self play using a program that starts with a letter "V", but not anymore. I do admit it's much easier to self play on a table top game rather than MTG or games the revolves around secrecy.

I think this is the first time I've read Draigo-wing getting tabled.

Thanks for sharing!

Heh, not sure we can read too much into this result. It does appear if the game was a little biased towards the crons.

Given the position of the Doom Scythes, the paladin deployment was asking for a bunch of casualties first turn, got lucky with those first bunch of saves.

However, the main point for me that gave me the giggle was the bait offered by the warriors moving up to the star then being taken. Basically you baited yourself then took the bait. Hehe.

Maybe I am seeing the position wrong, the pictures are useful, but when you were making the decision t2 for the GK's of where to send the deathstar, they could have got a decent multicharge against the wraiths but with the majority of the paladins going into the scarabs. Between using your force weapons and s6+ stuff, im pretty sure that you could easily have won the combat by 20+ which would realistically meant that the wraiths went down to a manageable number to be wiped out the necrons turn.. Scarabs also may have survived with a base or 2 after fearless saves. This was only t2, there would have been plenty of time to hunt down the rest of the troops. You may even have been able to multicharge the wraiths, scarabs and the left most group of warrior with good positioning prior to the charge. Scarabs piling in would still mean you could direct the majority of the dins attacks at them to get that lovely combat res. I think that getting mixed up on the turns meant you forgot how early the bloodshed had begun and how much time was really left in the game.

To be honest, any game I have played against crons using wraiths and scarabs, it is difficult for the necron player to spread those out sufficiently to mitigate the multicharge due to footprint sizes and once this is achieved the wraiths crumble. No 2+ is a bit of a downer, mainly for taking a few wounds due to light arms fire on the way in and then for the fearless saves.

I am almost thinking your best unit in the codex is the CC Overlord in a barge. It just has wrecking ball written all over it. I have noticed that if planning the 12" sweep shenanigans, it can be quite logistically and physically difficult to place the model afterwards as they don't fly sideways.

Those Doom Scythes have a decent range! Very costly but could really deliver the initial punch needed to get the initiative. I would have difficulties here in the target priority between then doom scythes and the command barges.

Have noticed that the command barges tend to get quite a bit closer to your army early, albeit with a 4+ save. I think, with DE, I will pull back a little and focus all the fire on those puppies before pushing forward. They seem to like paper planes.

cmac wrote:However, the main point for me that gave me the giggle was the bait offered by the warriors moving up to the star then being taken. Basically you baited yourself then took the bait. Hehe.

I laughed when I read this

Red Corsair wrote:
It's tough playing a game yourself and I think that is the main reason you hadn't assaulted the other wraith unit to be honest. I think it is playing the mission to eliminate the best threat to your own scoring units. Again I think if you were only playing the GK this choice would have been easier to make but juggling two hats makes you question the right decision in order to make the 'common decision" based on the scenario. Honestly I try not to self play as I find it doesn't make you better or really allow you to test things out properly as you are at war with every decision you make! Still seemed entertaining though.

Actually, I did both. If you noticed, I sent Draigo to help out the paladins while the paladinstar went after the warriors. I thought that would be enough and it should've been, but the dice said otherwise. What can you do when the dice just doesn't go your way?

I was trying to have my cake and eat it too. Too bad the cake turned out to be poison and gave my paladins indigestion.

Red Corsair wrote: I still want to see a MS scarab combat court take on that deathstar! I think it is a sub-par list overall but that it would be incredibly flavorful and entertaining. Who knows though I haven't seen anyone really test out a full strength court held together yet. Imagine two full courts veiling in for the kill! Would be devastating I bet!

Me too! Pretty soon, I'm going to be "retiring" my MTO crons and experimenting with other builds. Tomb blades and the necron Royalwing are 2 of the units on the top of my list that I want to try out. They may not be the most competitive, but I think they could be fun as heck.

Isseyfaran wrote: Agreed. I don't see any point in playing with yourself... Strategies, tactics are an important part of the game.

Was gonna make a comment, but I see that others have beat me to it. Actually, even I would probably have beat myself to it.

pretre wrote:

Isseyfaran wrote:Agreed. I don't see any point in playing with yourself... Strategies, tactics are an important part of the game.

Playing with yourself has many uses. Don't be so hard on jy2.

Ok, would everyone please refrain from all the phallic jokes.

jy2 wrote:Actually, I did both. If you noticed, I sent Draigo to help out the paladins while the paladinstar went after the warriors. I thought that would be enough and it should've been, but the dice said otherwise. What can you do when the dice just doesn't go your way?

Yeah, but Draigo can link combats by himself?

It does sound like there were some freaky dice. One benefit, which is a huge benefit, is that you have identified areas where mistakes, rules stuff etc were made so you are aware of them for the future.

It's tough to find time with other commitments in life.

Maybe, I should get rid of the girls and start playing with my airplanes at home.

hehe very entertaining read so far but from everything I've seen of the new necrons now for the past few months since people are learning how to assault/use the night fights/ mind shackle/ mind in the machine, etc, it's definately setting itself up as a very top tier army.

I'm reasonably sure that unless you tune your list to be able to beat necron variations, the take all comers lists of today will fall behind fairly rapidly so I do not have much faith in the IG/GK/SW being top 3 anymore.

I just personally haven't found much to really achieve that yet while keeping my lists fairly well constructed vs all others.

Crowe lists are still where my heart is though and so far I've almost always had the most luck just bashing one necron unit type till it died completely before moving on to something else even on objective games. The doom scythes are very counter to that type of castle set up. I'm gonna have to do some wacky triangle formation I think in the future to be more effective after watching this bat rap.

Against necrons, due to RP, EL, and other spawning craziness, I just can't afford to not over-kill them but target priority is such a pain when everything is so durable and night fight really messes up triangle formations so I'm still working on some decent stragety counters and not so much on list constructions.

The results are interesting but since it was a self played game I can't attribute much to the results.

I love how people are still arguing that crons are not a tier one army. Myself, just gunna giggle when I see draigo wings across the table... Hell I already have a few times already.

Hell the palinstar got the charge on the crons and still people are doubting the results. Face it guys there is a new army in town and GKs should fear it.

I hate when people pigeon hole armies in general and claim some to be tier one and others not. Anything can happen, and I have found there to be a competitive army in every codex. That's why I feel it is important for people to experiment on their own and not just build net lists. I see new player fielding net lists all the time and they still lose to my "out dated" or "tier two" builds all the time. The difference is I play with no repetition when I can so I get better at playing every unit in my armies in every combination. A good general makes do with what he has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

Red Corsair wrote: I still want to see a MS scarab combat court take on that deathstar! I think it is a sub-par list overall but that it would be incredibly flavorful and entertaining. Who knows though I haven't seen anyone really test out a full strength court held together yet. Imagine two full courts veiling in for the kill! Would be devastating I bet!

Me too! Pretty soon, I'm going to be "retiring" my MTO crons and experimenting with other builds. Tomb blades and the necron Royalwing are 2 of the units on the top of my list that I want to try out. They may not be the most competitive, but I think they could be fun as heck.

Yea I have come close to building crons just for the tomb blades/stalkers and doom scythes but have refrained. I need to finish painting my armies!

Lukus83 wrote:I was also unaware that you were playing against yourself. I can imagine you don't get a lot out of the experience since when you play vs another opponent you don't know what they are thinking, what tactical hiccups ploys they have planned etc etc. That said I think Necrons had this quite easily. Doom Scythes were priority 1 to be dealt with, but with short range psycannons, night fight, low numbers and not a lot of support units it seemed they would almost be guaranteed a decent shot each. Combined with the fact Necrons did have a lot of support it put it easily in the Neconrs favour. At 2k my A. Barges are being replaced with Doom Scythes for the Alpha Strike capability.

Even with the mistakes (everyone makes them, wouldn't worry too much about it) it was a good read. Congrats on the win, lol.

Actually, I feel that you can learn things, even when you're playing against yourself. I surprised myself with how well necrons did this game despite all the mistakes that they made. I also learned a few things like how to deploy (or how not to deploy) against a doom scythe list, how sometimes not to advance too aggressively (i.e. wraiths getting assaulted by paladins), how "weak" MSU troops are actually not so weak even when being targeted by the opponent, how vital the command barge lords are to my MTO strategy and how powerful and thus useless psycannons are sometimes (I was afraid that whatever I shot at with my paladinstar, I would wipe out or kill enough models to prevent myself from charging).

In short, I definitely felt that I got something out of this experience.

Exalted Pariah wrote:I never thought mine eyes would see the day! Draigowing, TABLED! and by Necrons no less! I'd say Necrons are a high level army now! Just wait until second wave increases our strength! GLORY TO THE MACHINE!

Yeah, I'm beginning to see how effective and powerful my MTO necron list and strategy can be. The results definitely was surprising, though I think the dice was a little on the necron side this game, with the lords killing almost everything they touched and my wraiths surviving combat against paladins and Draigo.

But they are definitely starting to prove that they belong with the other elite tournament armies.

SabrX wrote:It seems Draigo-wing was overwhelmed by the Necrons. Necrons chalks up another win.

I used to self play using a program that starts with a letter "V", but not anymore. I do admit it's much easier to self play on a table top game rather than MTG or games the revolves around secrecy.

I think this is the first time I've read Draigo-wing getting tabled.

Thanks for sharing!

Next stop, Grey Knight Crowe Purifiers! Now you can play V for Vendetta!

cmac wrote:Heh, not sure we can read too much into this result. It does appear if the game was a little biased towards the crons.

Given the position of the Doom Scythes, the paladin deployment was asking for a bunch of casualties first turn, got lucky with those first bunch of saves.

That was a mistake on the paladins part. I didn't think the doom scythes would have the "reach" to fire at me without cover. I guessed wrong.

However, the main point for me that gave me the giggle was the bait offered by the warriors moving up to the star then being taken. Basically you baited yourself then took the bait. Hehe.

This was a case of me forcing my opponent to make a tough decision. Good generals will do that. Also, my first inclination was to play the mission and go after the troops. However, I did send help to my other paladins by splitting off Draigo. I felt that Draigo + paladins should have been enough to deal with the wraiths. Unfortunately, that didn't pan out. Even now, I think that was the correct move.

Maybe I am seeing the position wrong, the pictures are useful, but when you were making the decision t2 for the GK's of where to send the deathstar, they could have got a decent multicharge against the wraiths but with the majority of the paladins going into the scarabs. Between using your force weapons and s6+ stuff, im pretty sure that you could easily have won the combat by 20+ which would realistically meant that the wraiths went down to a manageable number to be wiped out the necrons turn.. Scarabs also may have survived with a base or 2 after fearless saves. This was only t2, there would have been plenty of time to hunt down the rest of the troops. You may even have been able to multicharge the wraiths, scarabs and the left most group of warrior with good positioning prior to the charge. Scarabs piling in would still mean you could direct the majority of the dins attacks at them to get that lovely combat res. I think that getting mixed up on the turns meant you forgot how early the bloodshed had begun and how much time was really left in the game.

That was too tough a multi-charge to do. I didn't feel that the risk was worth it. And honestly, I didn't feel that the scarabs were really a high priority threat to my paladins compared to the warriors.

To be honest, any game I have played against crons using wraiths and scarabs, it is difficult for the necron player to spread those out sufficiently to mitigate the multicharge due to footprint sizes and once this is achieved the wraiths crumble. No 2+ is a bit of a downer, mainly for taking a few wounds due to light arms fire on the way in and then for the fearless saves.

It's not so bad. Against less assaulty armies, I don't really care but against more assaulty armies, just spread them out. Flank the wraiths to one side and the scarabs to the other. Or flank both wraiths and have the scarabs come up the middle. Don't assault the same unit unless you're pretty sure you can wipe them out and also watch out for counter-assaults. It's usually the counter-assault that's dangerous. As a tyranid player also who plays tervigon-spam, I find its not too hard to prevent multi-charges that you don't want.

I am almost thinking your best unit in the codex is the CC Overlord in a barge. It just has wrecking ball written all over it. I have noticed that if planning the 12" sweep shenanigans, it can be quite logistically and physically difficult to place the model afterwards as they don't fly sideways..

They are definitely good, but they won't be able to finish off entire units efficiently. They are more of a support unit used to open up vehicles and to provide your main force more hitting power when necessary.

And they don't fly sideways. They fly straight. It's just when they land, you can pivot them to any facing you want.

Have noticed that the command barges tend to get quite a bit closer to your army early, albeit with a 4+ save. I think, with DE, I will pull back a little and focus all the fire on those puppies before pushing forward. They seem to like paper planes.

Good idea! Take out those fast necron vehicles and the game will be much easier for DE.

So wait ... who was playing the netlist ...?

ah, I have a question. How the hell was Anrakyr EVER allowed to consolidate OUT of a combat?

I'm not getting that but haven't seen anyone else mention it so I must be missing something.

For reference, I'm talking about when he joined in with the Wraiths.

<text redacted; there are ways to handle rude PMs; posting rudely yourself isn't one of them --Janthkin>

Woo someone is mad.

Anyways ....

jy2 - Do you see a benefit to taking the doom scythes over 6 more spyders? It seems that you might miss out on a good amount of shooting due to most of your list being CC oriented. I know they cut through armor but so do the spyders even with them being pretty slow they serve the same purpose imo and are more survivable.

Clay Williams wrote:Woo someone is mad.

Anyways ....

jy2 - Do you see a benefit to taking the doom scythes over 6 more spyders? It seems that you might miss out on a good amount of shooting due to most of your list being CC oriented. I know they cut through armor but so do the spyders even with them being pretty slow they serve the same purpose imo and are more survivable.

Maybe you shouldn't PM me nasty messages then run to a mod when I respond to them? If you want to get a friendly game in sometime that's fine. If you want to air you opinion on a forum it will be discussed. Throwing a tantrum is not the way to handle it.

cmac wrote:It's tough to find time with other commitments in life.

Maybe, I should get rid of the girls and start playing with my airplanes at home.

My wife was out of town so I had a little more free time.

sudojoe wrote:hehe very entertaining read so far but from everything I've seen of the new necrons now for the past few months since people are learning how to assault/use the night fights/ mind shackle/ mind in the machine, etc, it's definately setting itself up as a very top tier army.

I'm reasonably sure that unless you tune your list to be able to beat necron variations, the take all comers lists of today will fall behind fairly rapidly so I do not have much faith in the IG/GK/SW being top 3 anymore.

I just personally haven't found much to really achieve that yet while keeping my lists fairly well constructed vs all others.

Crowe lists are still where my heart is though and so far I've almost always had the most luck just bashing one necron unit type till it died completely before moving on to something else even on objective games. The doom scythes are very counter to that type of castle set up. I'm gonna have to do some wacky triangle formation I think in the future to be more effective after watching this bat rap.

Against necrons, due to RP, EL, and other spawning craziness, I just can't afford to not over-kill them but target priority is such a pain when everything is so durable and night fight really messes up triangle formations so I'm still working on some decent stragety counters and not so much on list constructions.

That's the objective of this necron build - to force you into playing outside of your "comfort" zone. The doom scythes are especially good with this type of list. It forces you to deploy differently than you would normally like. My strategy of MTO is all about forcing you to make tough choices.

The reason it does well is because my list is good against mech lists and most of the tournament TAC armies nowadays are mech. I think the meta is changing slightly. Reecius sees it too, which is why he is playing footdar and his new leman russ-blob squad IG-blob build more. The current competitive meta is mech and these type of lists are thriving because they are "anti-meta" lists.

But honestly, I don't think the GK's need to tune their list to specifically beat necrons. I think a solid GK list should be able to more than hold its own against necrons. That's how good I think the GK's are. They definitely have the tools to be able to deal with both wraithwing and scarab farm, especially a Crowe-Purifier build. I may be a little biased, but I think they are the best all-around GK build if played properly.

Clay Williams wrote:I love how people are still arguing that crons are not a tier one army. Myself, just gunna giggle when I see draigo wings across the table... Hell I already have a few times already.

Hell the palinstar got the charge on the crons and still people are doubting the results. Face it guys there is a new army in town and GKs should fear it.

Necrons can definitely be very strong, though I wouldn't quite say that they are top-tier yet. There are still armies out there that I think may give them problems, including deathwing, DE venom-spam, assault terminator builds, Crowe-Purifiers, kan-wall green-tide orks, tyranids and perhaps even daemons. Until they show that they can compete with these armies, we shall have to get more data in.

Good thing in the upcoming weeks, I'll be testing them out against Crowe-Purifiers (battle report coming out tomorrow), assault-terminator deathwing, Frankie's Nurgle marines and Janthkin's tyranids. And after that, then I'll probably be retiring them.

Red Corsair wrote:I hate when people pigeon hole armies in general and claim some to be tier one and others not. Anything can happen, and I have found there to be a competitive army in every codex. That's why I feel it is important for people to experiment on their own and not just build net lists. I see new player fielding net lists all the time and they still lose to my "out dated" or "tier two" builds all the time. The difference is I play with no repetition when I can so I get better at playing every unit in my armies in every combination. A good general makes do with what he has.

Yeah, it's one thing to play a list that you see. It's another thing to really understand the intricacies of that list. Not everyone will be able to pull it off, which is why you will see good lists fail because they are not played properly and weaker lists succeed because the person playing them really understands his army and how it works.

Another person who plays his list with little repetition is Janthkin. His list lacks the redundancy you normally see in more "competitive" lists (besides 2x3 hive guards), but he is an expert in it and is able to milk it for all its worth.

The Dragon wrote:ah, I have a question. How the hell was Anrakyr EVER allowed to consolidate OUT of a combat?

I'm not getting that but haven't seen anyone else mention it so I must be missing something.

For reference, I'm talking about when he joined in with the Wraiths.

Because he wasn't able to get into base contact with Draigo after the wraiths piled in. When a unit cannot get into base with another unit after combat, then they just consolidate. BTW, he joined into the combat with the wraiths, but he is still a separate unit than the wraiths.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Clay Williams wrote:
jy2 - Do you see a benefit to taking the doom scythes over 6 more spyders? It seems that you might miss out on a good amount of shooting due to most of your list being CC oriented. I know they cut through armor but so do the spyders even with them being pretty slow they serve the same purpose imo and are more survivable.

I think in certain lists, spyders make more sense. In my list though, I prefer the doom scythes because they are a more imminent threat and greatly increases the pressure on the opponent. It's true that spyders are more resilient than the doom scythes. However, doom scythes are better at dealing with certain armies (like Draigowing, leman russ/land raider-spam or fast dark eldar vehicles) than spyders. Both units have their strengths and weaknesses and both units are great. I just think that doom scythes fit my strategy of Maximum Threat Overload better.

If you have a list in mind and are unsure which to take, you can PM me your list and I will critique it for you.

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Thank you

Thanks for the reply Jy2.

Still, I thought if an independent character joined into an assault with a friendly unit (even after that friendly unit was already in the combat before the IC jumped in) that he would be forced to join.

This certainly adds an entirely new dimension to necrons.

I tell you this is what I'm loving about this codex. The play modality requires tactics at an entirely different level. Fantastic.

It's a pity though that i'm having to dig deep into the guts of 5th edition all over again to have a fair go with the codex and that 6th ed is going to come a-knocking to toss me on my rules-rump in just a few months (from what I hear).

Really enjoyed the battle report Jy2. Thanks again.

That's the objective of this necron build - to force you into playing outside of your "comfort" zone. The doom scythes are especially good with this type of list. It forces you to deploy differently than you would normally like. My strategy of MTO is all about forcing you to make tough choices.

The reason it does well is because my list is good against mech lists and most of the tournament TAC armies nowadays are mech. I think the meta is changing slightly. Reecius sees it too, which is why he is playing footdar and his new leman russ-blob squad IG-blob build more. The current competitive meta is mech and these type of lists are thriving because they are "anti-meta" lists.

But honestly, I don't think the GK's need to tune their list to specifically beat necrons. I think a solid GK list should be able to more than hold its own against necrons. That's how good I think the GK's are. They definitely have the tools to be able to deal with both wraithwing and scarab farm, especially a Crowe-Purifier build. I may be a little biased, but I think they are the best all-around GK build if played properly.

I pretty much agree with you Jy2, but curious on what changes in tactics you perfer when say using MSU pruifiers vs the different necron builds?

I see as being popular and effective necron builds - >

a) scarab and wraith based fast assaulty

b) shooty long range with quake's/night fighting and barges, and some with stormlords too but not always

c) mid range power blobs and mind shackle protections

lists do have some variation but in general they tend to fall into one of the above categories with some form of protection/action flavor thrown in.

The Dragon wrote:Thanks for the reply Jy2.

Still, I thought if an independent character joined into an assault with a friendly unit (even after that friendly unit was already in the combat before the IC jumped in) that he would be forced to join.

No, you can never join a unit while you are in assault. You can only join a unit in your Movement phase so if you have 2 units in a multi-assault, you have to wait until the assault is finished before those 2 units can join each other in your following Movement phase.

The Dragon wrote:It's a pity though that i'm having to dig deep into the guts of 5th edition all over again to have a fair go with the codex and that 6th ed is going to come a-knocking to toss me on my rules-rump in just a few months (from what I hear).

Really enjoyed the battle report Jy2. Thanks again.

Don't worry. You and everyone else will have to relearn 40k again once 6th ed comes out.

And I hear 6th edition is going to come out maybe in the middle to 2nd half of the year.

sudojoe wrote:I pretty much agree with you Jy2, but curious on what changes in tactics you perfer when say using MSU pruifiers vs the different necron builds?

I see as being popular and effective necron builds - >

a) scarab and wraith based fast assaulty

b) shooty long range with quake's/night fighting and barges, and some with stormlords too but not always

c) mid range power blobs and mind shackle protections

lists do have some variation but in general they tend to fall into one of the above categories with some form of protection/action flavor thrown in.

Purifiers need to support each other. 5-man units are easy targets for the wraiths, but your counter-assault is what will hurt them. Have your purifiers nearby each other to help each other out.

I would use psyflemans to take out doom scythes and command barges first and then wraiths.

Use shooting to your advantage. Purifiers actually have good shooting. Shoot until you have no other option but to fight in combat. Necrons have changed the current meta. Now give almost all your transports searchlights.

Have your psyflemans close to your purifiers to protect them. Use them to tarpit both wraiths and even scarabs if you have to. Dreads are dual-purpose...to provide AT and to protect your troops with counter-assault and psychic defense.

Finally, in objectives-based missions, you have to play aggressively. Mobility is not your strong suit. You cannot afford to just sit and shoot. You have to make a play for the objectives starting on Turn 1.

Clay Williams wrote:I love how people are still arguing that crons are not a tier one army. Myself, just gunna giggle when I see draigo wings across the table... Hell I already have a few times already.

Hell the palinstar got the charge on the crons and still people are doubting the results. Face it guys there is a new army in town and GKs should fear it.

All things being equal, the Draigowing will easily beat Necrons.

Blackmoor wrote:All things being equal, the Draigowing will easily beat Necrons.

How can all things be equal when the 2 codex are already so different...

jy2 wrote:That was too tough a multi-charge to do. I didn't feel that the risk was worth it. And honestly, I didn't feel that the scarabs were really a high priority threat to my paladins compared to the warriors.

Scarabs and wraiths looking in throwing handbags range? Point wasn't the threat of the scarabs, but the ability to use them to kill the wraiths through fearless wounds, making the spyders basically redundant and also removing the pesk threat that is the scarabs.

Mainly, its a point im trying to make that scarabs can be a liability, watch it if you are playing crons, abuse it if playing against.

I agree that Draigowing is much stronger than Necrons. They have a counter to all the best units.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:

Valek wrote:Think it will depend on the mission, but two doomscythes have the power to vaporate that 10 man palladin squad in one go!!

Not unless you play some very silly RAW, or the GK player lines up for you.

I think the Necrons are in with a chance though! I hope Anrakyr MitM's a Psyriflemen and it kills pallies...

What silly RAW? The whole point of the doom scythe is that it has the power to do something like that - I don't see how you can argue that it only works if you play 'silly RAW'. Whether it's OP or not is a fair debate but there's nothing ambiguous in the rules that suggests the way it's written isn't what was intended imo.

Now, I didn't read the whole thread, but I've seen the battle report with Reece and now found this. Questions:

Both bunch up vs your army, which is built to tear down castles did you admit this yet in any of the posts or to them to help them out?

IE: Why did they bunch up when the Doom Scythes and massed combat units LOVE that?

This made be giggle, tempting fate. This is why the game is won in Deployment and movement fellas.


Why have 2 solar pulses? Your army is all close ranged stuff, and you only need 1 if you wanna deploy everything from the get go and prevent a IG Alpha Strike. Only reason I see the second one for is a probably silly attempt to guard the 5 man units in the back from being hit, but FYI: if your list is all about pressure, it should succeed in relieving those Warrior units of any fear of retaliation. I'm guessing that strategy isn't working well, so first signs the list needs work.

Do you reserve 2 units of Warriors and stick 2 units with Pulses hopefully behind some BLOS and just, hope for the best? Is that right?

Now onto the list, which IMO is suck:

Anrakyr on Barge - Common combo I've seen, which falls to any paired up melta/blasterborn kind of threats out there. Yes, his range is 24" (24+18 if you want to go in for the vehicle possession; and assuming you've used your Tachyon Arrow first turn while your army moves into position, which most of the time I bet you do) Threat range of a Melta team is about 21" The enemy WILL get him. He loses his mobility, and can die easily once on foot, he's not that scary.

Regular Lord on Barge - So many upgrades when all I have to do is take him out of his chariot to lessen my worries about him? Thanks for pouring points into him!

Doom Scythes are fun, but not begin on the board kind of fun. With AV 11 all the enemy has to do is aim a smidge of Autocannons their way and they got them as they try to move in for the kill -- and with a threat range of ~30" (Death Ray) its not much more than anything else really, just the Death Ray is random range so that's in no way to be "reliable anti-tank" unless your enemies do exactly what they've done here and not deploy/set up well vs your army. Again - Derp Deployments IMO. I may be wrong somehow but I never found a reason to castle up against Doom Scythes which have anti-castling kind of weapon...And CC units to boot who will hit multiple units at once....sigh. The Tesla Destructor is fun, I give you that, but you're not buying Doom Scythes for that alone, otherwise you'd have 3 Night Scythes instead of 2 Doom Scythes, now wouldn't you?

Warriors not doing much of anything but 2 are babysitting Lances and Pulses. +1 for trying to help the army with Pulse/Lance -5 for having the rest of the squad useless.

The Wraith dilemma - I find Wraiths to suck because they are CC, against a MSU list this really shows - they get shot at a bit (not much cuz of your Solar pulses/doom scythes that need to go down first), hit some expendable units (woo I killed 5 marines/a rhino Ma!) and get torrented next round end of that fairy tale.

Scarabs are fun but die to the same kind of retaliation as Wraiths. Maybe worse, because you know, Tank Shock+Blast/Flamer templates roast swarms. (IG should be able to do this just fine) Counter-Chargers can also work if the unit is weakened. If someone shoots the Scarabs before they hit or in range of a true threat, TBF I think they need work on their tactics (My 4 base scarab unit sits in Cover, sees some Ordnance blast come their way, oh 4 saves...2+ Cover via Gone To Ground, I didn't need to do anything that turn ANYWAY /troll'd The moment the opponent stops putting quality firepower their way is the moment they get back up to 3+ Cover and charge next turn. Easy Scarabs Use 101 for ya.

And the Spyders, which are clearly there to bump up the Scarabs to "scary numbers" and hopefully use their MC status to clear midfield after the rest of the army already does most of the work. /yawn?

Just my 0.02

ColdSadHungry wrote:What silly RAW? The whole point of the doom scythe is that it has the power to do something like that - I don't see how you can argue that it only works if you play 'silly RAW'. Whether it's OP or not is a fair debate but there's nothing ambiguous in the rules that suggests the way it's written isn't what was intended imo.

Are you trying to claim Death Ray hits every model in every unit the line crosses over? I didn't think there was anyone still arguing this interpretation. If so, good luck with that...

RAW states that the "units hit by the line suffer an amount of hits equal to the number of models in the unit under the line"

So say 2 models were hit in a unit by the line, then 5 another unit, it would be 2 for the first unit and 5 for the other unit...

I think it's pretty clear, people are just over-reading it.

Smurfy wrote:I think it's pretty clear, people are just over-reading it.

Agreed. Thanks for putting it more politely than I could.

What is a good necron list Smurfy, in your opinion?