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Between Far Left and Centre Left.

Ahtman wrote:I guess creating a bubble economy that will burst any moment and needs to be propped up by war to temporarily suppress the upcoming collapse could be considered good by some. The German economy under the regime was not stable nor long term. It created the illusion of prosperity, which, is a pretty poor measure of doing well. Getting trains to run on time doesn't really balance out all the British, French, US, Russian, et al lives that were lost. Even without the Holocaust they would be rightly disliked.

Snappy dressers, though.

seeing how all the politicans in my homeland are the long lost relatives of Trolls from WHFB I have no intrest in who rules Norway. They all do a equaly gakky job anyways

Joey wrote:Nazism is the specific ideology of the superiority of the "Aryan" peoples over all others...communism is not.
Read the communist manifesto and tell me the part that says "btw feel free to murder your people at will". You can't, because it's not there.
We are more culturally opposed to nazism for two reasons,
1)We fought the nazis in the war
2)There is a cultural tradition of people on the far left being prominent in society, less so with the far right

Thats not right Nazis are just Socialist with Nationalistic traits. Thats the difference to communists. You dont need to be against Jews or for Aryans. The Exact opposite of the Natinalsocialist is therefor the Liberal/Libertarian side, and because the Anglo-Saxon countries always leaned that way, Nationalsocialism had (luckily) a tough stand there.

Nazis are the supporters of Hitler.

Dark Scipio wrote:

Joey wrote:Nazism is the specific ideology of the superiority of the "Aryan" peoples over all others...communism is not.
Read the communist manifesto and tell me the part that says "btw feel free to murder your people at will". You can't, because it's not there.
We are more culturally opposed to nazism for two reasons,
1)We fought the nazis in the war
2)There is a cultural tradition of people on the far left being prominent in society, less so with the far right

Thats not right Nazis are just Socialist with Nationalistic traits. Thats the difference to communists. You dont need to be against Jews or for Aryans. The Exact opposite of the Natinalsocialist is therefor the Liberal/Libertarian side, and because the Anglo-Saxon countries always leaned that way, Nationalsocialism had (luckily) a tough stand there.

No, no, no.
Nazism (you mean Facism) is anticommunism. The extreme opposite of communism. Socialism is Communism Light.

Kilkrazy wrote:Nazis are the supporters of Hitler.

No they arent. There are Nazis today, that dont support Hitler.

thenoobbomb wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:

Joey wrote:Nazism is the specific ideology of the superiority of the "Aryan" peoples over all others...communism is not.
Read the communist manifesto and tell me the part that says "btw feel free to murder your people at will". You can't, because it's not there.
We are more culturally opposed to nazism for two reasons,
1)We fought the nazis in the war
2)There is a cultural tradition of people on the far left being prominent in society, less so with the far right

Thats not right Nazis are just Socialist with Nationalistic traits. Thats the difference to communists. You dont need to be against Jews or for Aryans. The Exact opposite of the Natinalsocialist is therefor the Liberal/Libertarian side, and because the Anglo-Saxon countries always leaned that way, Nationalsocialism had (luckily) a tough stand there.

No, no, no.
Nazism (you mean Facism) is anticommunism. The extreme opposite of communism. Socialism is Communism Light.

Communist are radical Socialist right. But Nazis are anticommunists, because they share so many traits and cant both exists. Its not the opposite. Go through their goals, and you will see they are very similar, the opposite are the Liberals.

Dark Scipio wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Nazis are the supporters of Hitler.

No they arent. There are Nazis today, that dont support Hitler.

Again perhaps you are getting National Socialism mixed up with Nazism.

corpsesarefun wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Nazis are the supporters of Hitler.

No they arent. There are Nazis today, that dont support Hitler.

Again perhaps you are getting National Socialism mixed up with Nazism.

Yes, whats the difference in the english language?

Wikipedia told me:

Nazism, the common short form name of National Socialism

Most nazis do support hitler/ all of them.
Ever met a Nazi who didnt support hitler?
Most Nazi's are (Neo) Nazi's because of Hitler.

National socialism is a form of socialism with strong influences of nationalism whereas Nazism is a form of racist, fascist national socialism created by Hitler and the Nazi party.

corpsesarefun wrote:The bubble was started in Weimar Germany, the Nazi's just inflated it.

The nazis' handling of the German economy was bad, they had so many controls and regulation in the economy that the reichsmark could no longer be exchanged for foreign currency.
If it weren't for the war they probably would have collapsed '41/'42 anyway, without all the gold reserves they stole off the jews/poles/french etc.
The Weimar Republic was no worse off than Britain or France really, except having a large agrarian population (about a third of Germans were still rural farmers working on innefficient unprofitable family farms, hence the support for a party that promised massive agricultural subsidies).

thenoobbomb wrote:Most nazis do support hitler/ all of them.
Ever met a Nazi who didnt support hitler?
Most Nazi's are (Neo) Nazi's because of Hitler.

Support or just approve? The Dutch and Russian Nazis I read about just approve.

So I guess you agree now, that Communism and National socialism are very similar after comparing their goals?

National socialism is a form of socialism with strong influences of nationalism whereas Nazism is a form of racist, fascist national socialism created by Hitler and the Nazi party.

You mean you use the term Nazis only for the german incarnation of National socialism 33-45?

Ahtman wrote:

4oursword wrote:The Nazi Government did a great deal for Germany.

I guess creating a bubble economy that will burst any moment and needs to be propped up by war to temporarily suppress the upcoming collapse could be considered good by some. The German economy under the regime was not stable nor long term. It created the illusion of prosperity, which, is a pretty poor measure of doing well. Getting trains to run on time doesn't really balance out all the British, French, US, Russian, et al lives that were lost. Even without the Holocaust they would be rightly disliked.

As i previously pointed out, the Nazi economy can only BE stable. Because it is linked to units of work not market speculation.

On the subject of what Nazi's did, they got the economy a LOT better, less inflation, more people working.

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:The bubble was started in Weimar Germany, the Nazi's just inflated it.

The nazis' handling of the German economy was bad, they had so many controls and regulation in the economy that the reichsmark could no longer be exchanged for foreign currency.
If it weren't for the war they probably would have collapsed '41/'42 anyway, without all the gold reserves they stole off the jews/poles/french etc.
The Weimar Republic was no worse off than Britain or France really, except having a large agrarian population (about a third of Germans were still rural farmers working on innefficient unprofitable family farms, hence the support for a party that promised massive agricultural subsidies).

The Weimar Republic itself was in a terrible state of affairs for most of it's existence and only improved towards the end due to a series of economic bodge jobs.

Dark Scipio wrote:

National socialism is a form of socialism with strong influences of nationalism whereas Nazism is a form of racist, fascist national socialism created by Hitler and the Nazi party.

You mean you use the term Nazis only for the german incarnation of National socialism 33-45?

Yes, exactly.

Ahtman wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:It's surprising how many people dislike Nazism

It is surprising? Really?

Hah!

Yeah, it is pretty suprising.

You know what else is weird? Most men dont fancy the idea of getting staked to the floor and being violated an enraged gorilla.

People are weird...

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

4oursword wrote:The Nazi Government did a great deal for Germany.

I guess creating a bubble economy that will burst any moment and needs to be propped up by war to temporarily suppress the upcoming collapse could be considered good by some. The German economy under the regime was not stable nor long term. It created the illusion of prosperity, which, is a pretty poor measure of doing well. Getting trains to run on time doesn't really balance out all the British, French, US, Russian, et al lives that were lost. Even without the Holocaust they would be rightly disliked.

As i previously pointed out, the Nazi economy can only BE stable. Because it is linked to units of work not market speculation.

What? No. They had to import almost all of their steel and a lot of coal from other countries, to do that you need foreign reserves.
During the war they stole foreign reserves from other countries but they still needed massive amounts of men producing goods to be sold overseas in order to pay for those imports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

thenoobbomb wrote:On the subject of what Nazi's did, they got the economy a LOT better, less inflation, more people working.

I can't be bothered to fully rebuke this, but every point you've made is completely false.

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:The bubble was started in Weimar Germany, the Nazi's just inflated it.

The nazis' handling of the German economy was bad, they had so many controls and regulation in the economy that the reichsmark could no longer be exchanged for foreign currency.
If it weren't for the war they probably would have collapsed '41/'42 anyway, without all the gold reserves they stole off the jews/poles/french etc.
The Weimar Republic was no worse off than Britain or France really, except having a large agrarian population (about a third of Germans were still rural farmers working on innefficient unprofitable family farms, hence the support for a party that promised massive agricultural subsidies).

The Weimar Republic itself was in a terrible state of affairs for most of it's existence and only improved towards the end due to a series of economic bodge jobs.

Dark Scipio wrote:

National socialism is a form of socialism with strong influences of nationalism whereas Nazism is a form of racist, fascist national socialism created by Hitler and the Nazi party.

You mean you use the term Nazis only for the german incarnation of National socialism 33-45?

Yes, exactly.

And where are you getting this? I would argue that you're using the term National Socialism incorrectly, or in any case, a bit loosely. Nazi is simply a shortened name for national socialism in German, and when most people hear the term "national socialism," in English or in German, I'm pretty sure Nazis are the first thing that comes to mind (assuming they know what national socialism means). I get that you're not saying Nazism is good, but whatever it is you're unopposed to, there's got to be a better name for it than national socialism. If you're saying things like Nazism is bad and national Socialism is okay, well, there's got to be a better term for what you're actually talking about.

Hordini are you from Germany by any chance? Most Germans I've spoken to use Nazi to mean any national socialism whereas in Britain and presumably America Nazism specifically means the strain of national socialism that Hitler adhered to whereas national socialism is exactly what it says on the tin.

Someones trying to defend the Nazis?

You have to be kidding me, also the 'good' you speak off is false. While some argue the economic return was a good thing, it involved removing other people from their jobs, openly denying certain members of society a place, that's just one example of the 'good' (Lies) you speak off.

I think the mods should close this thread before it bursts into a war zone.

Melissia wrote:Here in the US I'd be called left wing and liberal and probably labeled a socialist (which I am).

Fixed.

Nothing wrong with being who and what you are.

I am not going to join in the conversation about the pros and cons of communisms and socialisms.

However, I am consistently suprised that people have still not learned this one simple global political fact. USA Left = Europe Right
Europe Left = USA Extreme Far Left

corpsesarefun wrote:Hordini are you from Germany by any chance? Most Germans I've spoken to use Nazi to mean any national socialism whereas in Britain and presumably America Nazism specifically means the strain of national socialism that Hitler adhered to whereas national socialism is exactly what it says on the tin.

To be honest, I found no source (in that short time) backing your claim. So far I only read the opposite. Its just that the National Socialism in germany 33-45 could not only be described as such. I mean no political ideology can describe the whole state.

Hitler actually said the Nazi Party was neither left nor right wing and viciously attacked both, for the record.

From Mein Kampf:

Today our left-wing politicians in particular are constantly insisting that their craven-hearted and obsequious foreign policy necessarily results from the disarmament of Germany, whereas the truth is that this is the policy of traitors
[...]
But the politicians of the Right deserve exactly the same reproach. It was through their miserable cowardice that those ruffians of Jews who came into power in 1918 were able to rob the nation of its arms.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Fixed.

No, and also shut up and don't lie about what I believe.

Socialism revolves around the government owning the means of production/distribution/exchange. I specifically stated I don't agree with that.

Dark Scipio wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:Hordini are you from Germany by any chance? Most Germans I've spoken to use Nazi to mean any national socialism whereas in Britain and presumably America Nazism specifically means the strain of national socialism that Hitler adhered to whereas national socialism is exactly what it says on the tin.

To be honest, I found no source (in that short time) backing your claim. So far I only read the opposite. Its just that the National Socialism in germany 33-45 could not only be described as such. I mean no political ideology can describe the whole state.

I'm not sure what you mean, are you saying that National Socialism in Germany between 33 and 45 couldn't accurately be described as National Socialism? If so that's pretty much why we use the word Nazism to describe that specific strain of National Socialism.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:But it wasn't out of nowhere. They felt betrayed by the European Jew and we exacting vengeance.

The mass murder of the Jews under Stalin was COMPLETELY unfounded. The Jews were the revolutionaries that put Lenin in power in the first place...

Precisely why they were killed.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:Then why are you surprised that people hate the Nazi party?

This is why I never really talk about my political beleifs. Haters gon' hate.

Here's the thing. People aren't really talking about whether or not there are good reasons to hate national socialism (There are, racism is one, but hyper-nationalism is another. Their economic strategy wasn't necessarily pretty either.), they're talking about you being surprised that people hate national socialists. Regardless of anything else, there was a point in history when national socialists killed a whole bunch of people for reasons that many consider to be illegitimate, and essentially instigated World War II.

Being surprised that a whole bunch of people in the West hate Nazis is like being surprised that a whole bunch of Americans hate Communists.

corpsesarefun wrote:Hordini are you from Germany by any chance? Most Germans I've spoken to use Nazi to mean any national socialism whereas in Britain and presumably America Nazism specifically means the strain of national socialism that Hitler adhered to whereas national socialism is exactly what it says on the tin.

No, I'm American but I speak German and live in a German-speaking country so that might be coloring my views a bit. I'm not sure I'd agree that in the US people would differentiate between Nazism and National Socialism though. I think most people are familiar with Nazism. Quite a few probably wouldn't recognize the term national socialism, and I doubt those that did would draw much difference between the two.

So to be clear, by saying that national socialism is exactly what it means on the tin, are you basically just talking about left-wing nationalism?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:
As i previously pointed out, the Nazi economy can only BE stable. Because it is linked to units of work not market speculation.

The Nazi economy is based on W=Fs?

Hordini wrote:I think most people are familiar with Nazism. Quite a few probably wouldn't recognize the term national socialism, and I doubt those that did would draw much difference between the two.

That's exactly the point.

To most people in the US, national socialism would make them think "so like socialist Europe?"

While nazi party makes them think "Sieg heil! Heil Hitler!", the holocaust, and WWII. and etc.