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Also the parasite in a group of gargoyles is good against DE, their low toughness means more rippers to be spawned and used to tar pit their stuff. Not to mention strength 6 means a good chance to hurt vehicles.


3 Ravagers with lances will kill 3 venomthropes with 4+ cover on average per turn. Then venoms followup and murder whatever troops no longer have cover. And all this is happening while the entire army moves 12" towards whichever flank is the most vunerable/weakest. It is a dance of death that a footslogging nid list has no real way of surviving.

The parasite? He MAY get one chance to make ripper swarms provided a vehicle is destroyed and he gets to the troops inside.

The best chance 'Nids have is full reserve outflank/deepstrike list as it gives the DE player fewer chances to shoot and gets you in closer.

Regarding earlier comments that a DE player has to go first to win, unless my opponent has overwhelming firepower (longfangs/razorbacks, or hydras/vendettas) I usually prefer to go 2nd as that allows me to counter deploy. I have won alot of games in the deployment phase.
If your going 2nd, how are your Ravagers all alive to shoot? Also, why aren't the Venomthropes hidden behind the MC's they are protecting.

Venom/Lance spam is naturally a tough list for Nids, don't get me wrong, but me has a feeling your meta is making things extra easy for you if you can afford to go 2nd with paper air planes and not suffer from dead paper air planes.

Back to the original question, I don't think Dark Eldar have a glaring weakness, but they do have vulnerabilities that make them a balanced codex. They are one of the better armies in the game without being broken, hence why Kelly should write more codexes than Ward (even though I'm happy with the Blood Angels rules).

A good DE list in the hands of a capable player has a strong chance in any matchup...except maybe when matched up against 3-6 Psyfleman Dreads with Shrouding...

I have no doubt that you've had success against less the optimized DE builds. DE are odd like that, you tend to have people that know what they are doing who build scary as hell lists and then those who are starting out and build pretty weak or moderate builds. Against the former, nids just don't have a chance. Those hormagaunts, how well will they stand up to a charge from a beast pack without FNP or venomthrope backup because all that support is gone? Not very well. A good DE list essentially gets to pick what parts of your army die and when they die and you can't do much about it. Ask any 'Nid player what army they dread more than any other at higher end events, they'll say DE, just like any DE player cringes at the site of 3+ psyflemen dreads across the table......

At 1850 my list puts out 10 DL shots, 11 blaster shots, and 84 splinter cannon shots a round. It also has FNP wyches, 5 wracks with a liquifier, and a beastpack with baron. DE win the long, medium, short and CC game.

Like I said before, its not the nid players fault, its just unfair.

@shadar longtooth: ravagers stay alive with a combination deployment/cover/nightshields. You would be suprised on how often I can get out of 42" range of my opponents lascannons, or better yet, out of line of sight. Also, Venomthropes are always behind the MCs, but I can move 12" and fire all my lances, good look denying me LOS. Not alot of armies can throw out that much AT at 48", if they can, I try and go first, but if they can't I go 2nd.

I think we just need to play a match lol cause I find DE beatable.

They are difficult to beat but I've done it, and against similar armies.

The other thing that determines victor is who assaults who. Hence venoms hidden to give that amazing dangerous terrain buff.

A tervigon is good HQ as you can take feel no pain, it's the tervigon or parasite. I only run the parasite in fun home matches..just cause it's neat.

And this won't work in a tournament because you'll be weak to other armies that have better than 10 armor.

But if you were to optimize an army this is the way, drop nids don't work so well because they get shot to often, with this strategy you can gain the charge take the advantage.

Trance_Phoenix wrote:I think we just need to play a match lol cause I find DE beatable.

I agree here, I would actually pay money to find a 'Nid list that I can even hold its ground against my DE as I have several friends who love their 'nids and are quit dispondent over that particular matchup....

*any chance you're going to be at Adepticon?

gardeth wrote:I agree here, I would actually pay money to find a 'Nid list that I can even hold its ground against my DE as I have several friends who love their 'nids and are quit dispondent over that particular matchup....

Careful... I think you're approaching that line where honesty and arrogance meet.

Marshal_Gus wrote:

gardeth wrote:I agree here, I would actually pay money to find a 'Nid list that I can even hold its ground against my DE as I have several friends who love their 'nids and are quit dispondent over that particular matchup....

Careful... I think you're approaching that line where honesty and arrogance meet.

If so, sorry, but I geniunely want to know if it is possible, I just dont think it is. Same reason I shelved my SM biker army, it has no chance against a solid DE build :( .

Unfortunately I won't be at AdeptiCon. A bit to far out of the way for me. I'm hoping to snag the next one and make a road trip out of it.

Friend me though and when I do make it to a tourny we can have a match and post a battle report.

There's always Vassal if you want to test off.

Ovion wrote:There's always Vassal if you want to test off.

That is true, though Vassal tends to make me feel stupid for my inability to get it to run properly. May have to take another run at it though, 40k with out model setup or cleanup sounds very appealing.

Yeah, I need to figure it out myself...

I also want to create some custom images so my army on here could match my TT force (craploads of custom / counts as / etc etuff)

I've actually never heard of Vessal

Ovion wrote:No, you require 6's to hit walkers with grenades, You only hit on standard WS for grenades once it is immobilised.
Standard attacks hit against standard WS though.

Go read page 73 of your rulebook, I can't be bothered to type the rest of it out here.

Standard Grotesques are great for tarpitting a dread too.
A squad of 3-4 Grotesques has a reasonable chance of immobilising it, or more importantly - taking out it's DCCW(s) on the charge. If you've managed to drop its DCCW it can only do manage 1 wound a turn if it's lucky, and so it's stuck there until something like my talos appears to smack it in the face.

Uriens Grots can kill them, but they're a bit pricey in general.

grots are horrible at tarpitting a dread because if the dread has a DCCW it will over kill the grots.

Exergy wrote:

Ovion wrote:No, you require 6's to hit walkers with grenades, You only hit on standard WS for grenades once it is immobilised.
Standard attacks hit against standard WS though.

Go read page 73 of your rulebook, I can't be bothered to type the rest of it out here.

Standard Grotesques are great for tarpitting a dread too.
A squad of 3-4 Grotesques has a reasonable chance of immobilising it, or more importantly - taking out it's DCCW(s) on the charge. If you've managed to drop its DCCW it can only do manage 1 wound a turn if it's lucky, and so it's stuck there until something like my talos appears to smack it in the face.

Uriens Grots can kill them, but they're a bit pricey in general.

grots are horrible at tarpitting a dread because if the dread has a DCCW it will over kill the grots.

True, but all you gotta do is knock off a DCCW and your GTG. Basically this means on the charge glances of 5 and 6 and pens of 3 or better are golden.

Not a big fan of grotesques or Talos' (gorgous model though) as they are too slow and too vunerable. Not to mention Grots put a ton of points in one place thats not that hard for your opponent to get rid of.

gardeth wrote:Not a big fan of grotesques or Talos' (gorgous model though) as they are too slow and too vunerable. Not to mention Grots put a ton of points in one place thats not that hard for your opponent to get rid of.

Their both much better in a WWP list, I use Grots as a delivery system, and of course Talos coming out of the WWP to crack some heads.

Exergy wrote:

Ovion wrote:No, you require 6's to hit walkers with grenades, You only hit on standard WS for grenades once it is immobilised.
Standard attacks hit against standard WS though.

Go read page 73 of your rulebook, I can't be bothered to type the rest of it out here.

Standard Grotesques are great for tarpitting a dread too.
A squad of 3-4 Grotesques has a reasonable chance of immobilising it, or more importantly - taking out it's DCCW(s) on the charge. If you've managed to drop its DCCW it can only do manage 1 wound a turn if it's lucky, and so it's stuck there until something like my talos appears to smack it in the face.

Uriens Grots can kill them, but they're a bit pricey in general.

grots are horrible at tarpitting a dread because if the dread has a DCCW it will over kill the grots.

I generally run 2-3 squads of 3-4, depending on game size.
I've regularly successfully tarpitted Dreads with them, all you need is to glance, then get a 5+ and you're golden, if not, chances are they'll only last 2-3 turns, but that'll be long enough for my Talos to get in range, or for me to set up something to take it down once it's done.

gardeth wrote:Not a big fan of grotesques or Talos' (gorgous model though) as they are too slow and too vunerable. Not to mention Grots put a ton of points in one place thats not that hard for your opponent to get rid of.

TBH, I run mine in squads of 3-4 in raiders. The squad of 3, with a haem, 2 liquifiers, aberation and 2 venom blades, with a raider toting ff / ns comes to 275, and so far they've almost always made their points back, and generally at least half survive the game. 11 wounds accross 4 models, each with different gear, needing to cause 8 wounds before I lose the first model (outside of Str10) with fnp is really rather survivable, when the majority of things you're facing will need 4 to hit and 5-6 to wound in combat, where you'll be staying a majority of the time.

Siphen wrote:
Are there any armies out there that give DE a hard time? Or any types of lists, even? Just for reference, I'm usually up against a bunch of warriors in raiders and venoms, plus a few ravagers.

It is nearly impossible for DE to win against a well-built Grey Knights army. Spamming Psycannons, Psybacks, and Psyflemen Dreadnoughts is too much for DE to ever handle because AV10 Open Topped just melts completely when shot by S6 or more.

Not to mention that DE rely on shaking enemy vehicles in order to not take return fire. Grey Knights are immune to this.

When going against Dark Eldar, I usually take out ALL of their vehicles before or on turn 2, and usually table them by turn 5. Often I dont even need to go for objectives until turn 5-6 because they only ever have a few models left during about turn 4.

Its honestly just sad how unbalanced the matchup is. I often feel bad when deploying my army against a DE player...

zeekill wrote:

Siphen wrote:
Are there any armies out there that give DE a hard time? Or any types of lists, even? Just for reference, I'm usually up against a bunch of warriors in raiders and venoms, plus a few ravagers.

It is nearly impossible for DE to win against a well-built Grey Knights army. Spamming Psycannons, Psybacks, and Psyflemen Dreadnoughts is too much for DE to ever handle because AV10 Open Topped just melts completely when shot by S6 or more.

Not to mention that DE rely on shaking enemy vehicles in order to not take return fire. Grey Knights are immune to this.

When going against Dark Eldar, I usually take out ALL of their vehicles before or on turn 2, and usually table them by turn 5. Often I dont even need to go for objectives until turn 5-6 because they only ever have a few models left during about turn 4.

Its honestly just sad how unbalanced the matchup is. I often feel bad when deploying my army against a DE player...

Damn fortitude, no seriously...sigh..

A grey knight list with 3+ Psy-dreads is a nightmare list, any GK list without them tends to be a cakewalk! Go nightshields!

gardeth wrote:

Damn fortitude, no seriously...sigh..

A grey knight list with 3+ Psy-dreads is a nightmare list, any GK list without them tends to be a cakewalk! Go nightshields!

To be honest, while the Psyflemen Dreads pretty much each take out a raider per turn, and that is strong, its the Heavy bolter Razorbacks that really do it (probably because i run 8 of them...). Three shots at S6 that are nearly guaranteed to hit (BS4 with Twin-Linked) only need a 5 to pen. Each Razorback averages 1 pen and 1 glance against a raider, at a 36" range (so 30" with a nightshield).

Usually after my turn 1 DE are left with 3-4 vehicles that are all stunned or shaken, left without weapons, or immobilized.

Again, i feel bad even during deployment.

gardeth wrote:
Damn fortitude, no seriously...sigh..

A grey knight list with 3+ Psy-dreads is a nightmare list, any GK list without them tends to be a cakewalk! Go nightshields!

yeah fortitude really bring to light DE weakness with destroying vehicles. THey are so much better at stunning them. Talos can get it done but not at range.
1-2 Psy Rifles is ok, 3+ is impossible
Psyrazorbacks are annoying but not half as bad as the dreads.

so the weakness of DE is an op 'dex? Never would've thought of that.
Why dont we leave the GK out of it, since they are either psyfle-dread or 75%+ to lose armies - at least in my exp.

Yes, loseing a vehicle a turn is bad for DE, loseing more is a nightmare. Or just haveing anything to prevent them from moveing and/or shooting is the day an archon stabs himself in the stomack w his shadowshield deactivated.

still it is an op 'dex's right to do so, so im not concearned on playing w gk lists. The reason: i know im gona lose, except if the dice godess of my mad reality wills it the other way - rare.

enfernux wrote:so the weakness of DE is an op 'dex? Never would've thought of that.
Why dont we leave the GK out of it, since they are either psyfle-dread or 75%+ to lose armies - at least in my exp.

Yes, loseing a vehicle a turn is bad for DE, loseing more is a nightmare. Or just haveing anything to prevent them from moveing and/or shooting is the day an archon stabs himself in the stomack w his shadowshield deactivated.

still it is an op 'dex's right to do so, so im not concearned on playing w gk lists. The reason: i know im gona lose, except if the dice godess of my mad reality wills it the other way - rare.

The weakness of DE is vehicle spam. Dark Eldar have very few proper AV weapons. Any army that can field a large number of medium armoured vehicles and can put out a reasonable number of mid strength shots will table a Dark Eldar list pretty easily. GK and IG capitalize on this and are therefore a direct counter to most DE armies. It just so "happens" that these army lists win Fifth in general.

Mand wrote:
The weakness of DE is vehicle spam. Dark Eldar have very few proper AV weapons. Any army that can field a large number of medium armoured vehicles and can put out a reasonable number of mid strength shots will table a Dark Eldar list pretty easily. GK and IG capitalize on this and are therefore a direct counter to most DE armies. It just so "happens" that these army lists win Fifth in general.

Mechanical eldar can also be tough. Tons of fast AV 12

Exergy wrote:

Mand wrote:
The weakness of DE is vehicle spam. Dark Eldar have very few proper AV weapons. Any army that can field a large number of medium armoured vehicles and can put out a reasonable number of mid strength shots will table a Dark Eldar list pretty easily. GK and IG capitalize on this and are therefore a direct counter to most DE armies. It just so "happens" that these army lists win Fifth in general.

Mechanical eldar can also be tough. Tons of fast AV 12

Dude, I cannot beat Mech Eldar without getting very lucky. Especially with an ass load of upgrades on their vehicles.

So far their largest weakness is the fragility of the models. They snap and break so easy that if you flip the table over mid-game or after the game then you probably won't be playing against DE ever again.

They are a tough, tough army. But they are incredibly squishy all around.