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Hey Loki, its all misdirection by the Emperor. He doesnt want it to be common knowledge, even amongst his sons, that there is such a huge threat to his masterplan out there.
The Wolves are simply a blunt tool. Russ would happily go along with that particular rumour cos it adds to his Legion's myth. Gulliman could probably be trusted by the Emperor with the secret. Do you really think its a coincidence that Ultramar was founded right in the path of the nids.......?

The Tyranids are running away from The Culture. :p They deal with hegemonising swarms as a routine occurrance, after all.

Everyone is wrong! The Nids are quite clearly running from Mattyrm.


But seriously, I can't see the gribblies backing away from anything with biomass they can nom nom nom. They aren't known for a sense of self preservation(on an individual level) How about some form of energy based life? Or some sort of natural disaster on a galactic scale that flung them out of their home system and set them on a nomadic/raider type path? Just spitballing...

Given that Nids just keep getting their ass handed to them in the Galaxy they arrived inby just about everyone and everything (including by Maugan Ra going full-solo against an entire splinter-fleet), it's hard to imagine an alien life form beyond the most basic stone age civizations that Nids would NOT find themselves running away from eventually. My guess is, they've been running from Galaxy to Galaxy ever since the dawn of time, hoping to find one not inhabited by prickly inhabitants with guns or spears that throw them out again.

Zweischneid wrote:Given that Nids just keep getting their ass handed to them in the Galaxy they arrived inby just about everyone and everything (including by Maugan Ra going full-solo against an entire splinter-fleet), it's hard to imagine an alien life form beyond the most basic stone age civizations that Nids would NOT find themselves running away from eventually. My guess is, they've been running from Galaxy to Galaxy ever since the dawn of time, hoping to find one not inhabited by prickly inhabitants with guns or spears that throw them out again.

Hahahaha So true.

I like the Idea of an Ork incomprehensable army would be able to move the Tyranids but it is an Idea that is very un-imaginable.

Zweischneid wrote:Given that Nids just keep getting their ass handed to them in the Galaxy they arrived inby just about everyone and everything (including by Maugan Ra going full-solo against an entire splinter-fleet), it's hard to imagine an alien life form beyond the most basic stone age civizations that Nids would NOT find themselves running away from eventually. My guess is, they've been running from Galaxy to Galaxy ever since the dawn of time, hoping to find one not inhabited by prickly inhabitants with guns or spears that throw them out again.

That's a good point. lol

I recall the Nids being referred to as "The penance of the elder gods." If that did happen, what would that imply? Ctan?

It would, but that's also implying that nids have been around as long as the Eldar or Crons. Whilst this is entirerly plausible (they need time to eat galaxies after all) I just don't see them being that old, altgough it coincides with the whole "A C'Tan ran away from the war in heaven with the multiple conciousnesses of some eaten C'Tan in his mind and became the Hive Mind" theory

Rsma77 wrote:Perhaps it is not fleeing, more they are being ordered by the bigger Hive Fleets or Emperor knows what else. These just maybe the vanguard before the even bigger bugs invade the milky way, in which if that is the case, we're screwed.....But if we're to stick with the whole them running away theme, perhaps gods themselves walk the universe? Or maybe some faraway Eldar craftworlds we don't know about are reuniting for some kickass retaking of the galaxy? They are a psychic presence which I imagine if brought back to former strength could scare even hive fleets. Not sure, though I doubt we will ever get an answer, thank you GW fluff writers..

wait, so the psychic presence should scare them away.
yet levithian is going towards terra cos the psychic presense atracts them?

I think I just broke the fourth wall.

GW logic

What if the lost primarchs were not killed by the emperor and landed in another galaxy run by orks.

As orks respect the rule of the biggest baddest beasty what if the primarchs grew up and united the orks and started running their own galaxy and the nids showed up

The primarchs lead their united ork empire and are chasing them all the way to terra ?

On another note arnt the necrons like anti warp mechanoids that want to kill all living things in the galaxy - wont they pwn the nids ?

They aren't actually running from anything. They just ate everything in their last galaxy.

Though I have read a theory that says they're running from Yarrick. Which didn't make much sense.

Axlbush wrote:Hey Loki, its all misdirection by the Emperor. He doesnt want it to be common knowledge, even amongst his sons, that there is such a huge threat to his masterplan out there.

Citation needed.

Come on, lets see some fluff evidence for these theories.

-Loki- wrote:

Axlbush wrote:Hey Loki, its all misdirection by the Emperor. He doesnt want it to be common knowledge, even amongst his sons, that there is such a huge threat to his masterplan out there.

Citation needed.

Come on, lets see some fluff evidence for these theories.

Indeed. Of course some posters on this forum got really riled up the last time I asked them for evidence to back up what they were claiming. Some irrational knee jerk reaction as if being asked to prove their point was somehow a personal insult to them.

Iracundus wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Axlbush wrote:Hey Loki, its all misdirection by the Emperor. He doesnt want it to be common knowledge, even amongst his sons, that there is such a huge threat to his masterplan out there.

Citation needed.

Come on, lets see some fluff evidence for these theories.

Indeed. Of course some posters on this forum got really riled up the last time I asked them for evidence to back up what they were claiming. Some irrational knee jerk reaction as if being asked to prove their point was somehow a personal insult to them.

That is understandable, after all if they are going out on a guess, they don't want someone shooting them down with a request for evidence.
BTW, did you get any evidence from them?

IHateNids wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Axlbush wrote:Hey Loki, its all misdirection by the Emperor. He doesnt want it to be common knowledge, even amongst his sons, that there is such a huge threat to his masterplan out there.

Citation needed.

Come on, lets see some fluff evidence for these theories.

Indeed. Of course some posters on this forum got really riled up the last time I asked them for evidence to back up what they were claiming. Some irrational knee jerk reaction as if being asked to prove their point was somehow a personal insult to them.

That is understandable, after all if they are going out on a guess, they don't want someone shooting them down with a request for evidence.
BTW, did you get any evidence from them?

No, not beyond just naming an omnibus book, which is equivalent to saying "somewhere in the pages of the Bible it says this". Certainly not as specific as a page and quote.

Fallible memory, biased interpretations, and the like is why a quoted passage is better than any amount of "I remember" or "I read somewhere". It is also all too easy for someone to misread a passage or interpret an ambiguous statement of "maybe" to mean a definitive statement of "this is the case".

Iracundus wrote:

IHateNids wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Axlbush wrote:Hey Loki, its all misdirection by the Emperor. He doesnt want it to be common knowledge, even amongst his sons, that there is such a huge threat to his masterplan out there.

Citation needed.

Come on, lets see some fluff evidence for these theories.

Indeed. Of course some posters on this forum got really riled up the last time I asked them for evidence to back up what they were claiming. Some irrational knee jerk reaction as if being asked to prove their point was somehow a personal insult to them.

That is understandable, after all if they are going out on a guess, they don't want someone shooting them down with a request for evidence.
BTW, did you get any evidence from them?

No, not beyond just naming an omnibus book, which is equivalent to saying "somewhere in the pages of the Bible it says this". Certainly not as specific as a page and quote.

Fallible memory, biased interpretations, and the like is why a quoted passage is better than any amount of "I remember" or "I read somewhere". It is also all too easy for someone to misread a passage or interpret an ambiguous statement of "maybe" to mean a definitive statement of "this is the case".

Yes I can see how that can be a pain in the butt. But still, I can honestly say sometimes people do just read something then forget where they read it.

This is my theory:

If the Tyranids are fleeing from anything then they're fleeing from extinction.

Nobody really knows how many galaxies they've consumed, but let's face it.
They're not too smart, are they?

They engulf ENTIRE planetary systems, leaving NOTHING in their wake to regrow from the ashes (or maybe they do. Hrm).

It's my theory that the Tyranid Hive Fleets have become so huge, that they're now unable to survive without constantly seeking new biomass to digest. It's quite simple.

When you're hungry, you eat and when you run out of food and get hungry again, you go out and find something else to eat. Once you've eaten that and get hungry again, you repeat.

Now imagine that on the scale of a Tyranid Hive Fleet... That's a lot of mouths to feed.

Now, I'm sure the Hive Minds keep check on exactly how many bio-forms comprise their fleets, and I'm sure that if they wished, they could take large swathes of lesser bio-forms like Guants and ingest them into the rest of the fleet for sustenance. However, here's the dilemma, from a Hive Minds point of view.

You're on a constant mission to keep the Hive alive.
They NEED food, otherwise the Hive will begin to die from starvation.
As your constant crusade has gone on, the Hive Fleet have had to evolve into more efficient killing machines, due to resistance, but there's only so far and so quickly something can evolve and creating new bio-forms will require resources such as, you guessed it, fresh bio-mass.
In order to gather the bio-mass you need, you need to find first destroy any defence in the way. This will inevitably lead to the loss of large chunks of the Hive in battle.

Now, my theory is that the Hive Fleets have become too bloated and so large, that the Hive Minds are struggling to maintain balance.
Sure, they can push all at once in an all-out attack, but the losses would be huge and the time taken to replenish such losses would give time for a back-lash in resistance that could cripple the Hive Fleet permanently. There's only so far you can push before the tables turn.
That's why the Hive Fleets are currently only seeping through the Milky Way Galaxy, as they have to constantly keep up with their losses, the distribution of what bio-mass they can harvest and the creation of new bio-forms with which to gather that bio-mass and defeat the resistance they meet.

It's like a vicious cycle for them that can only end one way or another.

Consume or face extinction.

Invading the Milky Way Galaxy was most likely a desperate gambit to survive and now they're stuck in a meat grinder. If they pull back their Fleets, the Hive Minds most likely wouldn't be able to regroup and strike into another Galaxy before the numbers in their fleets dwindle due to starvation, so they're pretty much between a rock and a hard place and are having to grind deeper into our galaxy step by step, so that there's always a balance between consumption, reproduction and losses.

That's my theory. Someone will probably blow it out the water, as I don't know a great deal about Tyranids.
xD

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:This is my theory:

If the Tyranids are fleeing from anything then they're fleeing from extinction.

Nobody really knows how many galaxies they've consumed, but let's face it.
They're not too smart, are they?

They engulf ENTIRE planetary systems, leaving NOTHING in their wake to regrow from the ashes (or maybe they do. Hrm).

It's my theory that the Tyranid Hive Fleets have become so huge, that they're now unable to survive without constantly seeking new biomass to digest. It's quite simple.

When you're hungry, you eat and when you run out of food and get hungry again, you go out and find something else to eat. Once you've eaten that and get hungry again, you repeat.

Now imagine that on the scale of a Tyranid Hive Fleet... That's a lot of mouths to feed.

Now, I'm sure the Hive Minds keep check on exactly how many bio-forms comprise their fleets, and I'm sure that if they wished, they could take large swathes of lesser bio-forms like Guants and ingest them into the rest of the fleet for sustenance. However, here's the dilemma, from a Hive Minds point of view.

You're on a constant mission to keep the Hive alive.
They NEED food, otherwise the Hive will begin to die from starvation.
As your constant crusade has gone on, the Hive Fleet have had to evolve into more efficient killing machines, due to resistance, but there's only so far and so quickly something can evolve and creating new bio-forms will require resources such as, you guessed it, fresh bio-mass.
In order to gather the bio-mass you need, you need to find first destroy any defence in the way. This will inevitably lead to the loss of large chunks of the Hive in battle.

Now, my theory is that the Hive Fleets have become too bloated and so large, that the Hive Minds are struggling to maintain balance.
Sure, they can push all at once in an all-out attack, but the losses would be huge and the time taken to replenish such losses would give time for a back-lash in resistance that could cripple the Hive Fleet permanently. There's only so far you can push before the tables turn.
That's why the Hive Fleets are currently only seeping through the Milky Way Galaxy, as they have to constantly keep up with their losses, the distribution of what bio-mass they can harvest and the creation of new bio-forms with which to gather that bio-mass and defeat the resistance they meet.

It's like a vicious cycle for them that can only end one way or another.

Consume or face extinction.

Invading the Milky Way Galaxy was most likely a desperate gambit to survive and now they're stuck in a meat grinder. If they pull back their Fleets, the Hive Minds most likely wouldn't be able to regroup and strike into another Galaxy before the numbers in their fleets dwindle due to starvation, so they're pretty much between a rock and a hard place and are having to grind deeper into our galaxy step by step, so that there's always a balance between consumption, reproduction and losses.

That's my theory. Someone will probably blow it out the water, as I don't know a great deal about Tyranids.
xD

I can see where your coming from with this tbh, but, there are a few flaws as I see them.

I personally don't think the Tyranid race knows fear, but I do think the hive mind knows it cannot keep the fleets going without biomass.

Your point about ingesting the subspecies into the fleet for sustenance is a good one, but after the invading fleet has finished its invasion it liquefies all biomass and re-consumes it for the fleet to digest via feeder tubes. The only critters that aren't digested are ones already aboard the feel and are essential to defence, for e.g. Hive Guard, Tervigon, Norn-Queen (the latter being a hardwired part of the ship). If the fleets go without sustenance for any protracted period they will digest smaller outrider bioships to keep the leviathans going. But. considering the distance between galaxies, and the fact Tyranid bioships are not warp-capable, it must take a lot to starve them before any of that happens.

I think they only came to our galaxy because it was the closest from whichever one they consumed last. As it stands we are surmising that the splinter fleets that exist in out galaxy are the only ones of the Tyranid fleet as a whole, we have no way of knowing how many more fleets are invading other galaxies, outside our own.

I do hold that they are driven by the primal instinct to feed, but not through fear. They see every galaxy that exists as an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Also your point on "having to grind deeper into our galaxy step by step", The Hive mind is cunning, and has taken steps to attempt to halt the threat humanity "might" pose to it. It decided to plunge an entire hivefleet below the galactic plane to launch a "suspected" invasion of the sol system (our home), if you destroy earth, mankind has no centre of power, and thus becomes isolated.


anywho, back to the original post. I feel the Tyranid race has become the primordial fear we all suffer from, the darkness made of tooth and claw, fear incarnate. Something inescapably cold but ultimately spells death to all. "it" run's from nothing... you run from it!


Be sure to check all the dark places in your room tonight, you never know what may be lurking...

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:Nobody really knows how many galaxies they've consumed, but let's face it.

12. Read some fluff before making these kinds of statements.

I'll even be helpful there, and provide citation. Page 166, Rulebook.

"Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed."

dozen is a rough number. Like when you see a large crowd and say there are hundreds/thousands/millions? It means "about 12."

-Loki- wrote:

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:Nobody really knows how many galaxies they've consumed, but let's face it.

12. Read some fluff before making these kinds of statements.

I'll even be helpful there, and provide citation. Page 166, Rulebook.

"Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed."

Actually, I already knew that. I think everyone knows that, considering it's been mentioned several or more times throughout the course of this discussion... But, you know, pointing out the complete obvious in a desperate move to one-up me and make me look ignorant works as well, right?

So, well done on that champ. Well done.

In other news, I was actually referring to the Tyranid Hive Fleets as a WHOLE. Not just the ones currently attacking our Galaxy. Sure, it says that THOSE Hive Fleets have left behind a dozen lifeless galaxies (which, btw, as stated by Deadshot (thankyou) a dozen isn't an exact number. It's a rough number that is usually around 12, but not exactly 12. If it was exactly 12 they'd say 12).

So, yeeaaaaaah.
I'm gunna have to go ahead now and ask you to stfu.

Thaaaaaaanks.

That was a low blow mate...

Funny, but still a low blow.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:Lets say the tyranids really are running away from something, what do you think that race would look like? what type of being would it be? biological? mechanical? bio techno? warp creatures? daemon? other humans? others?

The Reapers?

If they were running why would they come to our galaxy? Then why would this entity want to chase them? Surely it would know that most life is contained in our galaxies and simply move there anyway? Also if they were fleeing the nids would have swept in rather than make the methodical and systematic attacks they've done so far. Probing the Imperiums defence with a fraction of their strength with slow patience in a war that has lasted for centuries? I doubt thats an action that suggests desperation or flight.

Not the reapers. If you are going for some cross-story stuff have the aliens run from something that pwns aliens

The nids are running from Predators

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:Actually, I already knew that. I think everyone knows that, considering it's been mentioned several or more times throughout the course of this discussion... But, you know, pointing out the complete obvious in a desperate move to one-up me and make me look ignorant works as well, right?

If you already knew, and realized other people did too, then maybe starting out with 'nobody knows' wasn't the best idea?

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:(which, btw, as stated by Deadshot (thankyou) a dozen isn't an exact number. It's a rough number that is usually around 12, but not exactly 12. If it was exactly 12 they'd say 12).

dozen
determiner
(Mathematics & Measurements / Units) (preceded by a or a numeral)
a. twelve or a group of twelve
b. (as pronoun; functioning as sing or plural)

When used as a measurement (as it is in the rulebook, counting the amount of galaxies they've destroyed) it means 12 or a group of 12 (ie 2 dozen is 24).

So yeeeeeaaahhhhhhh.

Knights-Abhorrent wrote: (which, btw, as stated by Deadshot (thankyou) a dozen isn't an exact number. It's a rough number that is usually around 12, but not exactly 12. If it was exactly 12 they'd say 12)

No problem. Anytime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:Actually, I already knew that. I think everyone knows that, considering it's been mentioned several or more times throughout the course of this discussion... But, you know, pointing out the complete obvious in a desperate move to one-up me and make me look ignorant works as well, right?

If you already knew, and realized other people did too, then maybe starting out with 'nobody knows' wasn't the best idea?

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:(which, btw, as stated by Deadshot (thankyou) a dozen isn't an exact number. It's a rough number that is usually around 12, but not exactly 12. If it was exactly 12 they'd say 12).

dozen
determiner
(Mathematics & Measurements / Units) (preceded by a or a numeral)
a. twelve or a group of twelve
b. (as pronoun; functioning as sing or plural)

When used as a measurement (as it is in the rulebook, counting the amount of galaxies they've destroyed) it means 12 or a group of 12 (ie 2 dozen is 24).

So yeeeeeaaahhhhhhh.

You obviously don't know how approxiations work. And besides if the were to stat a number it would be a nice even number like 5, 10, 100. 12 is random and clunky.

-Loki- wrote:

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:Actually, I already knew that. I think everyone knows that, considering it's been mentioned several or more times throughout the course of this discussion... But, you know, pointing out the complete obvious in a desperate move to one-up me and make me look ignorant works as well, right?

If you already knew, and realized other people did too, then maybe starting out with 'nobody knows' wasn't the best idea?

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:(which, btw, as stated by Deadshot (thankyou) a dozen isn't an exact number. It's a rough number that is usually around 12, but not exactly 12. If it was exactly 12 they'd say 12).

dozen
determiner
(Mathematics & Measurements / Units) (preceded by a or a numeral)
a. twelve or a group of twelve
b. (as pronoun; functioning as sing or plural)

When used as a measurement (as it is in the rulebook, counting the amount of galaxies they've destroyed) it means 12 or a group of 12 (ie 2 dozen is 24).

So yeeeeeaaahhhhhhh.

Wowzers, nitpicking much? the quote states "around a dozen". the English language, like many languages is dependant on prefix and suffix words, in this case, you can see the prefix word is "around"... which leads us to believe the number is an approximation. Not an exact number. Not every word is gospel you know... it's a game with a story attached, don't get so hung up on little details.


anywho back to the thread, Reapers sounds like a good cross over lols

dozen
determiner
(Mathematics & Measurements / Units) (preceded by a or a numeral)
a. twelve or a group of twelve
b. (as pronoun; functioning as sing or plural)

When used as a measurement (as it is in the rulebook, counting the amount of galaxies they've destroyed) it means 12 or a group of 12 (ie 2 dozen is 24).

So yeeeeeaaahhhhhhh.

You obviously don't know how approxiations work. And besides if the were to stat a number it would be a nice even number like 5, 10, 100. 12 is random and clunky.

Again, as Deadshot (thanks again) has pointed out.
When someone says "A dozen" it's an approximation revolving around the number 12.
The fact is, it does NOT state an EXACT number when talking about "devoured galaxies" and so-on and so-forth.

The fact that the wording in the BRB about this is so vague by saying a "a dozen" instead of a nice round number like "14" or "16" is only testament to the fact it's supposed to read as if it could be even more.
Otherwise, as I said, they'd just bloody say how many galaxies they've left in their path of nom-noms.

The way they've written it is intentional. It's ominous and mysterious.
That's the entire point and that was the entire point of why I out "nobody really knows".

It was intentional.
However, I'm sorry. Next time I'll just quote the BRB and Codexes word-for-word as I read them, like a robot would instead of trying to write something fluent in an attempt to make a subtle point regarding a subject that has been covered several times over in this thread.
Yes, it says "dozen". What's your point?

Does it say "Twelve"? No. No, it does not.

So YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH.

EDIT: Broken edit button ftl >.<

Wowzers, nitpicking much? the quote states "around a dozen".

Read the quote again. There is no word "around". That is something you inserted. There is nothing to suggest an approximation. Saying a dozen eggs are in an egg carton is not an approximation. It is an exact statement of a number. There is no logical reason to reject 12 galaxies just because it is 12 instead of 13 or 14. Numbers are numbers and whether one likes a number or not on the basis of being a neat round or untidy number has no relevance to whether it is true. There are 12 eggs in an egg carton even if one thinks 13 or 14 would be better, and the canonical GW statement clearly says a dozen. This is like how people kept saying Draigo vs Mortarion HAD to be metaphorical despite no indication it was. And now with the Codex out it is revealed to have been literal. In other words, in the absence of evidence that it is an approximation, it is not valid nor logical to keep dismissing the sentence as inaccurate based on personal opinion alone. Evidence should be used to form an opinion. Preformed opinion should not be used to select and filter evidence.