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LordofHats wrote: War of the Worlds had a very well done DEM ending and frankly it worked.)
That's most likely because it made sense; whenever you go into a new area, you have to worry about germs and deseases you don't have an immunity for, and it makes sense that something not used to Small Pox and stuff would suddenly keel over after exposure.
It does make the aliens sound lazy, in not doing their proper research......
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asherian Command wrote: at least it is not Force Unleashed or FEAR 3
How was FEAR 3's ending a DEM?
Spoiler:
They constantly told you this thing was out to get her, check. They told you she was afraid of her father. Check. You find out her father is the thing out to get her. You go into lab where you were raised, and proceed to kill him.
The only thing DEM about it was how you got there and how you were suddenly at Alma's side during the birthing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/11 18:23:11
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
LordofHats wrote: War of the Worlds had a very well done DEM ending and frankly it worked.)
That's most likely because it made sense; whenever you go into a new area, you have to worry about germs and deseases you don't have an immunity for, and it makes sense that something not used to Small Pox and stuff would suddenly keel over after exposure.
It does make the aliens sound lazy, in not doing their proper research......
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asherian Command wrote: at least it is not Force Unleashed or FEAR 3
How was FEAR 3's ending a DEM?
Spoiler:
They constantly told you this thing was out to get her, check. They told you she was afraid of her father. Check. You find out her father is the thing out to get her. You go into lab where you were raised, and proceed to kill him.
The only thing DEM about it was how you got there and how you were suddenly at Alma's side during the birthing.
FEAR 3 was a horrible example of a FEAR game. The game ended disappointing especially when they killed Beckett. That instantly caused me to hate the game. As beckett had little more than a cameo. And all the massive plot holes. Deus Ex Machina is when they kill paxton fettel. I had a huge problem with the two characters. Paxton was a wuss. And Pointman was a horriblely weak character. Alma was no more than a nusiance. No scaryness. No epic plot twists. No Michael beckett. Since when was slow mo a pyschic ability? He was made that way after experimentation. Same with Beckett. Beckett was killed in 3 seconds. He fought off alma. I highly doubt Paxton was able to accomplish that. I would have rather played Beckett than Fail man.
I have a long list of disappointing games. one who will be named. Duke Nukeum.
Comparing Me3 to Duke Nukeum....
ME3 has better story, better characters, is an rpg (Which instantly makes it better.)
Duke Nukeum, horrible story, sexist, FPS (Which makes it worse), horrid graphics, took 11 years to come out, ending sucked, character sucked, yeah everything in this game was bad.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Duke Nukem's story wassn't INTENDED to be a deep story. If you attempted to find a deeper meaning in DNF, you're really looking too hard. As for "sexist", yeah it was sort of, but at least the Duke had some personality, which is more than one can say about the overwhelming majority of FPS and RPG characters who are blandy mcboring idiots who nobody really cares about.
As for FPS being worse than RPG, hell no.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/11 18:41:52
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Has everyone seen every ending? or are these sucky endings for folks that mostly just powered through the game real fast? Reading through my hint book and stuff, there's tons of different endings where (almost) everyone is saved and shepard lives and all that stuff. I'm 2 missions away from the end now, but I get the idea you really gotta get tons of war assets (bar all green) plus go through the multiplayer and get your galactic readiness map cranked up pretty high to get the happy endings. So I'm taking a break now and going through the multiplayer, cuz I want the happy care bear tree hugger ending.
Aye, Thats something I'd be interested in seeing as well. How many endings are there. I doubt Bioware is talking, and online gamers rushing through are not going to have seen every ending surely.
Multiplayer readiness alone will take a while. Surprised how much fun it is by the way.
If any 360 Dakkanauts are out there and want to do some multiplayer goodness at some point, my LIVE is - fuzzy spiral.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
LordofHats wrote: War of the Worlds had a very well done DEM ending and frankly it worked.)
That's most likely because it made sense; whenever you go into a new area, you have to worry about germs and deseases you don't have an immunity for, and it makes sense that something not used to Small Pox and stuff would suddenly keel over after exposure.
It does make the aliens sound lazy, in not doing their proper research......
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asherian Command wrote: at least it is not Force Unleashed or FEAR 3
How was FEAR 3's ending a DEM?
Spoiler:
They constantly told you this thing was out to get her, check. They told you she was afraid of her father. Check. You find out her father is the thing out to get her. You go into lab where you were raised, and proceed to kill him.
The only thing DEM about it was how you got there and how you were suddenly at Alma's side during the birthing.
FEAR 3 was a horrible example of a FEAR game. The game ended disappointing especially when they killed Beckett. That instantly caused me to hate the game. As beckett had little more than a cameo. And all the massive plot holes. Deus Ex Machina is when they kill paxton fettel. I had a huge problem with the two characters. Paxton was a wuss. And Pointman was a horriblely weak character. Alma was no more than a nusiance. No scaryness. No epic plot twists. No Michael beckett. Since when was slow mo a pyschic ability? He was made that way after experimentation. Same with Beckett. Beckett was killed in 3 seconds. He fought off alma. I highly doubt Paxton was able to accomplish that. I would have rather played Beckett than Fail man.
I have a long list of disappointing games. one who will be named. Duke Nukeum.
Comparing Me3 to Duke Nukeum....
ME3 has better story, better characters, is an rpg (Which instantly makes it better.)
Duke Nukeum, horrible story, sexist, FPS (Which makes it worse), horrid graphics, took 11 years to come out, ending sucked, character sucked, yeah everything in this game was bad.
Yeah, they killed Paxton in Point Man's story ending; you have to play again to see Fettel's Ending, which is arguably the stronger playthrough; Fettel is damned good fun. Anyway, they killed him because PM has NEVER loved his brother, hence shooting him in the head in the first game.....
Alma was never scary.
Slow Mo was always a psychic ability, to my understanding, as that was what Point Man had over his brother.
"Buckett" NEVER fought off Alma; she never came after him, because she was infatuated. Alma was never trying to kill Beckett, Paxton was.
How was Paxton a wuss?
Point Man was always supposed to be You, that's why he never even had a name.....
FEAR has always had atmosphere and incredibly tight gameplay, it has never been a scary game.
Melissia wrote:Duke Nukem's story wassn't INTENDED to be a deep story. If you attempted to find a deeper meaning in DNF, you're really looking too hard. As for "sexist", yeah it was sort of, but at least the Duke had some personality, which is more than one can say about the overwhelming majority of FPS and RPG characters who are blandy mcboring idiots who nobody really cares about.
As for FPS being worse than RPG, hell no.
Indeed, Splatterhouse and Duke Nukem have NEVER been games for the posh "Games are an art form, anyone saying anything else is just plain wrong" crowd. Duke was always supposed to be Sexist. That's why he's DUKE MOTHER FETHING NUKEM. Hell, one of the missions in game has you track down popcorn, a vibrator, and something else; does this really say "supposed to be thought provoking"?
And quite frankly, most RPG's are starting to be worse than FPS'.....
(none of that was really directed at you, Mel.)
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Necros wrote:Has everyone seen every ending? or are these sucky endings for folks that mostly just powered through the game real fast? Reading through my hint book and stuff, there's tons of different endings where (almost) everyone is saved and shepard lives and all that stuff. I'm 2 missions away from the end now, but I get the idea you really gotta get tons of war assets (bar all green) plus go through the multiplayer and get your galactic readiness map cranked up pretty high to get the happy endings. So I'm taking a break now and going through the multiplayer, cuz I want the happy care bear tree hugger ending.
Spoiler:
Which ones are those? I got it where all my party lived. But I always died. From what I gather, Shephard can only live if you pick the 'renegade' ending by destroying the geth and reapers if you have 5000+ EMS and are on your second playthrough. The two other endings specifically involve you dissolving your body in energy and killing yourself; in which case theres no chance of survival so far as I'am aware. I'am not sure how there can be any more multiple 'endings' I imagine the final battle with Illusive man could go down different but thats not an ending in of itself. You only have those three options and since we lack an epilogue we don't get to learn the relevence or repurcussions of our actions during the game; like, for example in Dragon Age. Thus there are not dozens of multiple endings like their was in that game, theres just what you did.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:Duke Nukem's story wassn't INTENDED to be a deep story. If you attempted to find a deeper meaning in DNF, you're really looking too hard. As for "sexist", yeah it was sort of, but at least the Duke had some personality, which is more than one can say about the overwhelming majority of FPS and RPG characters who are blandy mcboring idiots who nobody really cares about.
As for FPS being worse than RPG, hell no.
FPS is IMO more hamstrung by the notion of filling your character with your own personality and using the players imagination to fill in the blanks against a back-drop of explosions. Halo is the most guilty of doing this. I mean when the AI in your head has more character and personality than the main character then you know somethings up. In fact Cortana probably is the main character in bloody Halo!
Its not depth or even origionality but I get the impression that most video games offer only lip service to even the concept of developing characters or having them interact with eachother. I mean look at Reach, in that game, despite stressing that you're in a team of Spartans they consciously avoided any meaningful efforts at saying who these people were or even what they thought. The only partial exception is the George likes Reach and sacrifices himself. Its almost as though they're so afraid of being percieved as cliche that they honestly believe its better to avoid it all together and rely on being abstract or letting the players 'imagine' who these people are, or guess what they're thinking at.
ps Gears of War 3 got it absolutely right IMO.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/11 22:18:46
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
Totalwar1402 wrote:FPS is IMO more hamstrung by the notion of filling your character with your own personality and using the players imagination to fill in the blanks against a back-drop of explosions
So basically just like most RPGs but with magic instead of explosives.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Totalwar1402 wrote:FPS is IMO more hamstrung by the notion of filling your character with your own personality and using the players imagination to fill in the blanks against a back-drop of explosions
So basically just like most RPGs but with magic instead of explosives.
No... Shephard actually opens his mouth. The chief does not. He also speaks far more often and you have the ability to craft a character of your chosing. Not the same thing.
Gears of War is a good way of doing an FPSIMO and I'll agree with you theres no reason they can't be bad at character. Its just that shooters are more likely to over-look it since among RPG's it is a recognised convention and expectation. Skyrim is definetly the worst culprit of the put your imagination onto characters; in fact the game revels in it. But it gets away with that by the game being shockingly beautiful and awe-inspringly massive in scale.
ps. Coz i changed my pic from Sabbat to Tali isn't it?
Tell you what you armoured Amazonian! If they ever bring out a SOB codex I'll change it back in a heart-beat.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/03/12 01:30:27
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
In the first Halo, the Cheif was you. John was not the cheif, you were. That's why he talks so little, is they took a blank slate, made it a character.... but left it as a blank slate. And Marcus is just as bad unless you've read the books.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Slarg232 wrote:In the first Halo, the Cheif was you. John was not the cheif, you were. That's why he talks so little, is they took a blank slate, made it a character.... but left it as a blank slate. And Marcus is just as bad unless you've read the books.
I know we're getting off-topic here but. I agree for the first two games that Marcus is rather jokingly a vacuous character being a strong but silent type. But, the third game changed that since he really did crack after
Spoiler:
Doms death and his fathers death
and I actually liked the thing with him and Anya. I felt the way the characters interacted was one of the most lovable qualities of Gears of War 3 which is a huge contrast to Halo Reach.
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
Well yes, but other than that, there really isn't much of a sense of who he is.
Where as in the books, it shows you that
1) His father neglected him, causing him to find a family in the Santiago household with Dom's Older Brother, Carlos.
2) Carlos dies, and Marcus becomes a war hero because he went apeshit insane when it happened.
3) Marcus loves Anya, but won't do anything about it because of how volatile their lives are, until Dom gets ahold of him and says "Look man, I ain't going to bud into your business again, but DO SOMETHING about her!"
Edit: I agree, you actually felt like they were a squad in that game, it was rather cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/12 01:36:45
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Just finished and that was, without exception, the least satisfying ending to any story I've ever had the misfortune to experience.
Spoiler:
So, every choice I've made in the past two games AND the third one matter for nothing. Every relationship I've fostered and every promise I've made to long time friends to meet up after the war is over, will never come to pass. There's no Shepard without Vakarian apparently, but we know that's not true anymore. I guess Jacob will have to find that bar in Rio on his own. Dr. Chakwas can just drink herself to death alone on whatever random planet she lands on. What about Liara? So much for that future my Shepard had with her. There are so many storylines that needed resolution I don't know where to begin.
Thanks Bioware.
I mean, the ending we're given would be perfectly fine if it weren't the only one. Meeting some random out of the blue Reaper God who can miraculously solve your problems whilst allowing BW to have Shepard make the "ultimate sacrifice" would be alright with a few changes, but as the only choice? I have half a mind to post on the official forums! I'll do it, I swear!
What should have happened? I'll drop the old cliche "well I'm no professional writer" line, but any moron can figure out a couple of satisfying endings.
It all comes down to a couple of factors -
The ones under your direct control at the end, all based on controlling or destroying the Reapers -
- Shepard lives or dies - The Citadel is saved or destroyed - The Mass Relay network is damaged/intact/destroyed
A couple more dependent on your other decisions -
- The Normandy is destroyed/saved/stranded - The fleets are saved/destroyed/decimated - Earth is saved or destroyed - depends on the time it takes for you to reach Earth
Any combo of these, ranging from the absolute ideal and very time consuming to obtain, to the absolute rock bottom disaster which occurs when you fly through the games nonchalantly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/12 11:35:41
In the back of the hint book, it lists what you need to do/have for shepard to live and earth to be saved and all. It's something like at least a 4000 readiness rating (not war assets), but 5000+ is best. So you're gonna have to play through multiplayer to get your galactic map thingy to be higher than 50%. I spent most of the day yesterday playing multiplayer, was lotsa fun and I got my map to 100% pretty easily. Also it did say it's easier to have Shepard live if you're on a 2nd play through. So I'm gonna see if I can finish the game tonight and see what I get. I'll try and save right before the final battle or whatever so I can go back and pick different choices to see if there's any difference. I played as like 99% paragon in ME2 and 3. But my girl shepard is the opposite.
I'm gonna wrap spoiler tags around this whole post because I have a decent amount to say about the ending and it's impossible to talk about without spoilers:
Spoiler:
So there are a few things about the ending to ME3 that I have mixed feelings about. First of all, the game as a whole is so profoundly well written, and the emotional scenes involving the heroic sacrifices of major characters (Mordin, Thane and Anderson, to name a few) leave you with a sense of urgency to make all of their deaths worth it in the end. I went into this game expecting that Shepard would not survive, so I have no problem with an ending that resolves with his death for the good of the galaxy.
Where I have trouble is the lack of resolution in the actual endings. When Shepard dies, it should be a profound event, and everyone should know about what he did and that he perished so the galaxy could survive as a whole. But instead, it's not even clear that surviving characters even know what went down on the Crucible. They are seen aboard the Normandy fleeing a massive wave of energy that either A) Destroys all synthetic life including the Reapers and the Geth, B) Controls the Reapers, or C) Merges all organic and synthetic life.....somehow.....into something......After that, we see them crash land on a planet and that's the end of it.
I think I would have been happier with the ending if these characters that I spent so many hours developing relationships with knew what had happened to Shepard on the Crucible, or knew any of what the Catalyst said to him. It does not disturb me that they lost their friend and leader. It disturbs me that they don't know how or why he is dead. There is no closure on their part, at least not anything we see visually in the ending. The section after the credits with the Stargazer leads me to believe that Shepards story escapes somehow, but I would have liked more confirmation than an ambiguous scene with nameless characters. Perhaps something during the ending sequence to show that when Shepards body dissolves to form the wave of energy that merges organics and synthetics, part of his consciousness was transferred to every organism in the galaxy?
Furthermore, in order to get the "Perfect" ending that results in a living Shepard with a galaxy freed from the Reaper threat, you have to take the Renegade option of destroying all synthetic life after playing through the game twice and busting your balls in order to bring every possible asset into the war. This of course leads to the destruction of the Geth, who you just helped achieve peace with the Quarians, and who were helping the Quarians adapt to their newly liberated home-world much more swiftly than they could have managed on their own. That's a pretty big slap in the face of a race that was breaking the mold perfectly well on their own, and doing their best to fight off the Reapers besides. And if you don't choose this ending, Shepard dies and you have all of the lack of closure for his party members.
I think a solution to this would have been a longer final cut scene that showed surviving crew members fondly remembering Shepard and speaking about what he died to protect, or at least some means of showing us that they know he is gone, what he died for (IE like what I mentioned above about his consciousness), and that they are at peace with that or are at least dealing with it in their own way. In other words, I just sacrificed my life to save the galaxy dammit! I want my friends to know how it went down!
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Well, I just finished it tonight .. I really loved the ending and all. I dunno what all the fuss is about.
For me .. I had my map at 100%, war assets and readiness were both over 6000
Spoiler:
I chose to kill the reapers, so I nuked em for orbit since it's the only way to be sure. All the reapers attacking earth collapsed and there was much rejoicing. All the mass relays blew up, the normandy almost got caught in the blast, but crash landed on some happy planet full of trees. Joker, Liara and Garrus climbed out of the wreckage. Then, I dunno what it was, but I think it was supposed to be some other kinda wreckage, I guess the Citadel, that Shepard was stuck in, and then suddenly gasped for breath like he was waking up, then credits rolled, and then Buzz Aldrin told a story to some little kid
Overall, I'd rate the game a 10.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also for that 2nd video above, my ending was a lot longer.. maybe they edited it out? but I had a big cut scene of Joker flying the ship trying to get away from the explosions, then you see it crash landed on the planet, and the other guys coming out.
Or maybe they have the ending all based on different relationships and decisions so more things get shown depending on what you do? I dunno .. but I liked it anyway. I have a save from earlier in the final battle so I might go back and try all 3 options just to see how it goes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 04:49:31
Then Bioware isn't paying attention to their own lore, cause the ending specifically includes the Geth as being destroyed.
Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure it was the Reapers that were partially organic, while the Geth are entirely "mechanical". Though, to be fair, "synthetic" doesn't mean "not organic".
As to the ending, having seen several of them at this point, it screams "second trilogy".
I don't know if I like that, or hate it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 05:58:24
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
LordofHats wrote:Wouldn't shock me. EA isn't exactly know for NOT trying to make money
I'm somewhat torn.
On one hand, I would like this to be a self-contained trilogy. I would love more games set in the same universe, but I don't think they should relate to Shepard; except in tangent. Of course, no one knows if he's alive or dead, or if that will matter for future titles.
On the other hand, I like the combat (for the most part), and sci-fi RPGs, or pseudo RPGs, are few and far between.
More on the ending:
Spoiler:
Sad, but it made sense. Shepard has effectively been defined by his role in fighting the Reapers. That's his "purpose" so to speak. We only hear about his family if his mother is Alliance military, and even then its only in passing. This isn't a guy that has a life outside what he's doing in the games.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
That's the destruction ending, all synthetics are destroyed.
That's the Reapers, the Geth and EDI. The Geth aren't "half organic", it's explicitly stated by the dumbchildreaperwtfgodthing that they will die if you choose this option.
I'm sure they designed the game with 3 or 4 DLCs already planned. hell they're probably done already and just waiting for the marketing people to check their spreadsheets and sales projections for the best time to release each one. I'm predicting at least 1 multiplayer map pack, 1 extra missions pack and 1 wft really happened at the end pack
.......I don't think I could ever choose the Renegade option, even in a Renegade playthrough, specifically because it will also destroy EDI and the Geth. EDI is one of my favorite characters in the series. I loved her in ME2, and her maturation in ME3 proves that not all AI's will turn on their creators. Also, I worked very hard to re-unite the Geth with the Quarians, and so much good came from that union that I couldn't destroy them simply because it would also destroy the Reapers and allow Shepard to survive.
What I feel most cheated about with this ending is that you never have the option to provide proof to the little kid that synthetics and organics CAN work together in harmony (Geth/Quarians and EDI/Normandy Crew). Without that 4th option, allowing you a Paragon or Renegade choice to persuade the Catalyst that we can, in fact, work together and the Reapers are unnecessary, I don't think I will ever be satisfied with the ending as-is.
I understand that this is effectively the same thing as the Paragon option, controlling the Reapers so everyone survives and Shepard dies, but it's an important distinction that I think needs to be made.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I just had a conversation with a good friend who found this:
It makes so much sense! Basically, everything we see in the "ending" of the game is NOT the real ending of the game. It's all a hallucination implanted in Shepards head by the Reapers as an attempt to Indoctrinate him.
Here are the facts:
-The Paragon choice is to control the Reapers. Everything leading up to the final sequence involved The Illusive Man attempting to control them, and Shepard was fighting that the entire time. The Reapers WANT you to try to control them, because it's impossible and it ends with them controlling you instead.
-The Neutral option is a compromise. You give up your conviction to destroy the Reapers, and because your resolve is not strong enough, you become indoctrinated and the Reapers win.
-The Renegade option is to destroy the Reapers and all synthetic life. This is the ONLY choice that takes galactic readiness into account (if it's high enough, you see that Shepard survives in the end), and it's the only one that sticks to Shepards convictions of destroying the Reapers. They do not want you to select this choice because it means you deny them and throw off Indoctrination, so they plant the hook that if you destroy them, the Geth and EDI are also destroyed after you worked so well with them.
If you select the Renegade option, it takes your Galactic Readiness into account, because if it's high enough, the forces on Earth hold off the Reapers long enough for Shepard to fight off Indoctrination and wake up back on Earth. This also explains the whole story line with the kid.
If you pay attention, the first time you see him is right after you are nearly hit by a Reaper beam on Earth. Nobody acknowledges him but you, even after you see him jump onto a shuttle in front of a ton of people. The dream sequences through the game are basically the Reapers planting the seeds of Indoctrination in your mind. You cannot save everyone, so you shouldn't even try. Come over to their side like The Illusive Man and let them win. And the "Catalyst" appears to you as the kid in glowing/ghostly form, explaining that the Reapers are this solution to a great problem and asks you to choose one of three really bad options that are, at best, a partial win for Shepard.
It explains why the Normandy crew are back aboard the ship with Joker, particularly the ones that were with you when you were hit (you see them, specifically in the final cut scene). They were never there, and it was just the tail end of a dream in Shepards head.
Finally, it explains why the colors of the Paragon and Renegade options are reversed at the end (the color of the energy wave, that is). The Paragon choice is control, which is colored red, and the Renegade choice is destruction, which is colored blue.
All of this tells me that the ending is going to be DLC, and that this "ending" is NOT the actual end of the game. I could be wrong, but it seems to fit SO perfectly that I don't think I am.
For more information, read this. It covers what I have said here in more detail.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/03/13 19:21:51
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
.......I don't think I could ever choose the Renegade option, even in a Renegade playthrough, specifically because it will also destroy EDI and the Geth. EDI is one of my favorite characters in the series. I loved her in ME2, and her maturation in ME3 proves that not all AI's will turn on their creators. Also, I worked very hard to re-unite the Geth with the Quarians, and so much good came from that union that I couldn't destroy them simply because it would also destroy the Reapers and allow Shepard to survive.
What I feel most cheated about with this ending is that you never have the option to provide proof to the little kid that synthetics and organics CAN work together in harmony (Geth/Quarians and EDI/Normandy Crew). Without that 4th option, allowing you a Paragon or Renegade choice to persuade the Catalyst that we can, in fact, work together and the Reapers are unnecessary, I don't think I will ever be satisfied with the ending as-is.
I understand that this is effectively the same thing as the Paragon option, controlling the Reapers so everyone survives and Shepard dies, but it's an important distinction that I think needs to be made.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I just had a conversation with a good friend who found this:
It makes so much sense! Basically, everything we see in the "ending" of the game is NOT the real ending of the game. It's all a hallucination implanted in Shepards head by the Reapers as an attempt to Indoctrinate him.
Here are the facts:
-The Paragon choice is to control the Reapers. Everything leading up to the final sequence involved The Illusive Man attempting to control them, and Shepard was fighting that the entire time. The Reapers WANT you to try to control them, because it's impossible and it ends with them controlling you instead.
-The Neutral option is a compromise. You give up your conviction to destroy the Reapers, and because your resolve is not strong enough, you become indoctrinated and the Reapers win.
-The Renegade option is to destroy the Reapers and all synthetic life. This is the ONLY choice that takes galactic readiness into account (if it's high enough, you see that Shepard survives in the end), and it's the only one that sticks to Shepards convictions of destroying the Reapers. They do not want you to select this choice because it means you deny them and throw off Indoctrination, so they plant the hook that if you destroy them, the Geth and EDI are also destroyed after you worked so well with them.
If you select the Renegade option, it takes your Galactic Readiness into account, because if it's high enough, the forces on Earth hold off the Reapers long enough for Shepard to fight off Indoctrination and wake up back on Earth. This also explains the whole story line with the kid.
If you pay attention, the first time you see him is right after you are nearly hit by a Reaper beam on Earth. Nobody acknowledges him but you, even after you see him jump onto a shuttle in front of a ton of people. The dream sequences through the game are basically the Reapers planting the seeds of Indoctrination in your mind. You cannot save everyone, so you shouldn't even try. Come over to their side like The Illusive Man and let them win. And the "Catalyst" appears to you as the kid in glowing/ghostly form, explaining that the Reapers are this solution to a great problem and asks you to choose one of three really bad options that are, at best, a partial win for Shepard.
It explains why the Normandy crew are back aboard the ship with Joker, particularly the ones that were with you when you were hit (you see them, specifically in the final cut scene). They were never there, and it was just the tail end of a dream in Shepards head.
Finally, it explains why the colors of the Paragon and Renegade options are reversed at the end (the color of the energy wave, that is). The Paragon choice is control, which is colored red, and the Renegade choice is destruction, which is colored blue.
All of this tells me that the ending is going to be DLC, and that this "ending" is NOT the actual end of the game. I could be wrong, but it seems to fit SO perfectly that I don't think I am.
For more information, read this. It covers what I have said here in more detail.
Whoa whoa whoa,
Spoiler:
But doesn't the catalyst agree with you that the reapers are uneccesary considering he tells and offers you the various options of how to change the reapers? He even specifically tells you how to kill all reapers and himself by shooting that conduit pipe. I completely agree with you that such a situation SHOULD have happened since the catalyst would believe its own plan to be flawless and would certainly not want you to screw with it like he does in the game. Like say, you cite EDI and the Geth as examples of a possible future. If you have murdered countless trillions of people for millions of years you do not behave with such indifference to a threat you have spent your whole time trying to stop. His only reason is that the catalyst provided extra options, but, if those options are better than the 'reaper solution' then it begs the question why on Earth he couldn't have built the catalyst himself. He is after all the most powerful and technologically advanced being in the galaxy.
Edit, WAIT.
WOW.
That actually makes sense. That would be absolutely awesome if they brought out DLC for a proper ending because
Spoiler:
the reapers (almost?) indoctrinated you finally
the whole trick with reversed colours is also interesting. Indeed
Spoiler:
the Reapers might have deliberately lied about destroying the Geth and Edi to force you to not do it. Think about it, the machine is only linked to them
. I sincerely hope that what you just said is the case and it would explain the sureal nature of the final part.
In fact initially that was my first thought during the game of being duped so i picked renegade.
Spoiler:
Wait, so you're saying that when Shep wakes up in those ruins hes really waking up at the point where harbinger shot him with the death cannon but is lying injured? Or are you saying the dream occurs because of the Illusive Man seeping into the cracks the reapers were doing. Given how injured shep is, do you think a DLC might have you play as his/her romance option or party to try and rescue shephard?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/13 21:11:33
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
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4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
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Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
Having read through a bunch of material on the matter, I actually feel pretty confident that this is the case. At first I thought it was likely to be wishful thinking, but it literally answers ALL of the questions I had. Every single one.
Spoiler:
Why are there no options to just get rid of the Reapers and explain about the Geth/Quarians and EDI? Because the Reapers do not want you to choose that option. It means you resist Indoctrination, so they seed it with a negative outcome and make it the "Renegade" choice.
Why does Anderson beat you to the Catalyst when he supposedly "followed you up"? Because he is a figment of your imagination. That's also why you are messed up and he is unharmed despite being in the same final rush to the beam as you were.
Why is there no closure for Shepards companions with his supposed "death"? Because the game isn't over yet, and the scene where they crashland on another planet is all part of the hallucination as you are either dying, or coming back to consciousness.
Why does the "Catalyst" look like the kid? Because he is a symbolic representation of the hopelessness of the fight, and thus a tool the Reapers are using to Indoctrinate Shepard.
Why is Shepard on Earth when he wakes up instead of on the Citadel? Because he was never on the Citadel and the ending sequence was an in-game mechanic allowing the player to fight off Indoctrination, or succumb to it and die.
Why is there a Galactic Readiness bar if none of it matters in the end anyway - none of the options except the "renegade" option to destroy the Reapers uses it? Because that option is the only one that ends with you alive and un-indoctrinated. You survive if your Galactic Readiness is high enough to allow the fleets to hold out against the Reapers while you fight off Indoctrination.
Why does the Stargazer have "one more story" about The Shepard if he just finished the one about his death? Because there will be DLC that provides a real ending to the game.
The ending sequence being a hallucination while Harbinger tries to Indoctrinate Shepard literally fits with everything that happened so perfectly that I have a hard time believing that is NOT the case at this point. It's actually pretty brilliant, now that I see it for what it is. I'm just baffled as to why I didn't pick up on it sooner.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/14 00:06:06
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather."
Aldarionn wrote:Having read through a bunch of material on the matter, I actually feel pretty confident that this is the case. At first I thought it was likely to be wishful thinking, but it literally answers ALL of the questions I had. Every single one.
Spoiler:
Why are there no options to just get rid of the Reapers and explain about the Geth/Quarians and EDI? Because the Reapers do not want you to choose that option. It means you resist Indoctrination, so they seed it with a negative outcome and make it the "Renegade" choice.
Why does Anderson beat you to the Catalyst when he supposedly "followed you up"? Because he is a figment of your imagination. That's also why you are messed up and he is unharmed despite being in the same final rush to the beam as you were.
Why is there no closure for Shepards companions with his supposed "death"? Because the game isn't over yet, and the scene where they crashland on another planet is all part of the hallucination as you are either dying, or coming back to consciousness.
Why does the "Catalyst" look like the kid? Because he is a symbolic representation of the hopelessness of the fight, and thus a tool the Reapers are using to Indoctrinate Shepard.
Why is Shepard on Earth when he wakes up instead of on the Citadel? Because he was never on the Citadel and the ending sequence was an in-game mechanic allowing the player to fight off Indoctrination, or succumb to it and die.
Why is there a Galactic Readiness bar if none of it matters in the end anyway - none of the options except the "renegade" option to destroy the Reapers uses it? Because that option is the only one that ends with you alive and un-indoctrinated. You survive if your Galactic Readiness is high enough to allow the fleets to hold out against the Reapers while you fight off Indoctrination.
Why does the Stargazer have "one more story" about The Shepard if he just finished the one about his death? Because there will be DLC that provides a real ending to the game.
The ending sequence being a hallucination while Harbinger tries to Indoctrinate Shepard literally fits with everything that happened so perfectly that I have a hard time believing that is NOT the case at this point. It's actually pretty brilliant, now that I see it for what it is. I'm just baffled as to why I didn't pick up on it sooner.
Spoiler:
Not to mention that deactivating all technology would kill every soldier on your relief fleet instantly. I've heard other people also note the sureal nature of how Shephard reacts. Also, did you notice how Shephard is barely able to move by right of bleeding from the gut; yet when he comes up to the renegade one he seems to straighten out with new vitality and a look of complete rage on his face; uncharacteristic with his casual conversation with the kid (Harbinger).
When I get my hands on that (because I'am a giant now ) cuttlefish I'am going to headbutt its eight beady yellow eyes till they shatter.
I think the DLC will HEAVILY montage the first game. Harbinger takes over Illusive man, Harbinger tries to stop Alliance from activating the citadel by engaging Hacketts fleet, Shephard, heavily wounded but with help kills the Illusive man and doing so knocks out Harbingers shields. The great bastard cuttlefish is then blasted by Hackett as Shephard activates the catalyst. ps the catalyst might simpyl do what happened to Soveriegn but to every reaper ship. ie disorientate them and disable their shields.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/14 00:48:20
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
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Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
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Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
My problem with it is that Shep does not point out the gaping flaw in the starchild's logic, or even particularly that the geth and quarians instead of destroying each other are attacking the reapers together.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
I got it where all my party lived. But I always died. From what I gather, Shephard can only live if you pick the 'renegade' ending by destroying the geth and reapers if you have 5000+ EMS and are on your second playthrough. The two other endings specifically involve you dissolving your body in energy and killing yourself; in which case theres no chance of survival so far as I'am aware. I'am not sure how there can be any more multiple 'endings' I imagine the final battle with Illusive man could go down different but thats not an ending in of itself. You only have those three options and since we lack an epilogue we don't get to learn the relevence or repurcussions of our actions during the game; like, for example in Dragon Age. Thus there are not dozens of multiple endings like their was in that game, theres just what you did.
Its almost as though they're so afraid of being percieved as cliche that they honestly believe its better to avoid it all together and rely on being abstract or letting the players 'imagine' who these people are, or guess what they're thinking at.
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
) cuttlefish I'am going to headbutt its eight beady yellow eyes till they shatter.