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Omegus wrote:

kur0n wrote:People keep saying "Well how will you be different from X" "What will you do different from Y", Emerett has spent a lot of time trying to explain this, but it seems to be going in one ear and out the other for a lot of people in this thread. So I will avoid that topic all together and try to take another approach that more people may be able to grasp.

Competition is good, maybe we will be similar to other sites in some ways, but that will only make both sites better.

Competition inspires innovation and that is exactly what wargaming needs.

This strikes me as a serious disconnect with what this site purports to provide. You are not a business competing with other for profit, but rather part of a larger gamer community. The key "c" word should be collaboration, not competition.

Your statement has made me even more suspicious/dismissive of this whole venture.

Parsing the words of non-professional spokesmen is ridiculous. He makes a valid point don't purposefully turn it into something it obviously wasn't meant to be. If you don't like their idea don't contribute (that is what I am choosing to do) but stop making ridiculous accusations and stick with valid criticism.

Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.

Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.

That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.

Could I enquire as to this chap's name?

Cyporiean wrote:

Cadaver wrote:
Emerett, it's cool you are doing the "big three" but perhaps focusing on the smaller games like Malifaux, Dark Age, GW specialist games as well would nice. Most folks know generally about the bigger games, and I not saying don't cover them. However, providing tutorials on games people may be hesitant to get into for no other reason than lack of exposure might draw more attention. In any event, I wish you and your team the best of luck!

Seconding this.


When Beasts of War did their Infinity stuff it really increased the interest in that game.

Yup, when I first saw the game passed it off as garbage.

Saw the BoW tutorial and wet my pants.

kur0n wrote:

arguemaniac wrote:So let me get this straight, if I go with, say, the $50 pledge, do I have to supply the HQ model to be painted, or is it included? Cuz if it's included, that's a hell of deal...

The model will be included within reason some HQ's are around 60 dollars and the pledge is only 50 so those wouldn't be an option. feel free to Pm me with any specific questions about an HQ.

Also, are the models on the kickstarter page indicative of the quality of paintjob we'd get?

Yes all models will be painted to our standards which are the same as the ones sampled on Kickstarter page.

I was just using the painted HQ as an example, I just wanted to clarify whether we had to supply the model. I'm actually thinking about the $175 perk, I'm dying to get into Warmachine, but just can't bring myself to start a new army untill my 40K Ork army is painted (which is taking FOREVER!!). Seem's like this might be a nice loop-hole for me...

Oh I'm with you on the "within reason" bit, I know kickstarter is about raising funds for your project, NOT spending the money on perks! Not looking to put one over on ya or anything.

I hope your site is a success, and I'm sure I'll be thrilled with my perk (I'm not hard to please). Expect a serious donation very soon...

I wish you the very best of luck in your pursuits, and I hope that you can make new players more educated on the rules.

Out of curiosity - and not meaning to look like chasing - but how goes the prep for the demo video?

4oursword wrote:

kur0n wrote:

Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.

Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.

That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.

I'm happy they're doing well. Without a link, I'll just have to trust you.
I don't see a question there however, so there's not much to answer.

Could I enquire as to this chap's name?

I was hoping you guys at Geek Plug would have read that and thought, "Hey, maybe we don't need to get any cash funding right now! Lets try another route." I was trying to cut through all the other angry posts for you. If you could have given a response to my post about why you haven't done things the way i showed was possible then i thought it would have answered everyones questions in one go.
As it stands i'm quite disappointed in your reply as it doesn't come across as very professional even although i was one of the few not attacking your idea.

@4oursword - A link would have been a good idea i suppose. I don't know why i didn't provide one before, i think i was trying not to drag 'her' into the conversation the way the thread was going.
Since the rule of the internet is 'proof or it never happened!' : Here is a link to Joey's wonderful channel.

Ya know I was looking at the profile of the guy who started the Geektube Kickstarter campaign, and it appears he himself has help fund like 9 other projects. Sounds like a guy who really believes in the whole Kickstarter process. It certainly doesn't seem like he's just begging for a hand-out (how many beggers give their money to others?) and it's pretty clear this is not some sort of scam either.

It's worth repeating, don't contribute if you hate kickstarter/think its a scam/don't believe the project will succeed/dislike their presentation, etc. Whatever you do, stop complaining...

Casey's Law wrote:

4oursword wrote:

kur0n wrote:

Casey's Law wrote:I'd like to bring this back to the fore as it will probably get lost in the mass of new posts and i think it is important that you, Emerett, can see what's possible. Never mind the rest of it, this is the core of the matter and i'd quite like to here your reply if you have the time. Thank you.

Casey's Law wrote:Not to labour the topic but i am following and occasionally 'advising' someone who is doing exactly the same thing as this. They have already made 21 informative, fun videos of enjoyable quality with no former knowledge of the process or wargaming. They had £0 startup costs and only an old laptop to work on.

That youtuber hasn't even hinted at funding or asked for help yet and has over 500 subscribers and over 25,000 video views. In not much over a month i believe.

I'm happy they're doing well. Without a link, I'll just have to trust you.
I don't see a question there however, so there's not much to answer.

Could I enquire as to this chap's name?

I was hoping you guys at Geek Plug would have read that and thought, "Hey, maybe we don't need to get any cash funding right now! Lets try another route." I was trying to cut through all the other angry posts for you. If you could have given a response to my post about why you haven't done things the way i showed was possible then i thought it would have answered everyones questions in one go.
As it stands i'm quite disappointed in your reply as it doesn't come across as very professional even although i was one of the few not attacking your idea.

@4oursword - A link would have been a good idea i suppose. I don't know why i didn't provide one before, i think i was trying not to drag 'her' into the conversation the way the thread was going.
Since the rule of the internet is 'proof or it never happened!' : Here is a link to Joey's wonderful channel.

I don't know why people can't grasp that this isn't a business, it's a project. They don't have a PR staff, they don't have a publicist, they aren't expected to be overly PC to someone who is obviously trying to either disuade them from taking the path they've chosen or is just giving them unwarranted gak for no reason.

"I was hoping you guys at Geek Plug would have read that and thought, "Hey, maybe we don't need to get any cash funding right now! Lets try another route."

Really? This is the kind of stuff that's really riling me up in this thread, and I'm not even donating. It isn't your job to convince them to abandon their kickstarter project because you have a chum doing it differently. Because they didn't take your advice and stuck to their goals you really felt the need to drop back into the thread and tell them how dissapointed you are they didn't abandon the whole thing? Let them run their Kickstart! Let them run their project! They don't need a million naysayers dropping in and saying nay over and over again.

Just saw this thread now. Wow. Funny conversation.

My thoughts:

Show some commitment and proof of concept -

1) Buy yourself a HD camcorder. They only cost a few hundred.
1a) Show you're serious before asking for money.
2) Write a script.
3) Film one of your videos.

scipio.au wrote:Just saw this thread now. Wow. Funny conversation.

My thoughts:

Show some commitment and proof of concept -

1) Buy yourself a HD camcorder. They only cost a few hundred.
1a) Show you're serious before asking for money.
2) Write a script.
3) Film one of your videos.

How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...

Sorry bub, but this thread doesn't need any more complainers.

arguemaniac wrote:

How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...

He did ask for suggestions though, and we are still yet to see anything, im quite interested me, but i want to see something before i start chipping in, these things need more than just good intentions.

Rayvon wrote:

arguemaniac wrote:

How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...

He did ask for suggestions though, and we are still yet to see anything, im quite interested me, but i want to see something before i start chipping in, these things need more than just good intentions.

Fair point...

Guys, come on, i'm cracking up here. If you had actually read the thread you would have seen that, if anything, i was in defense of the project and even pm'd Emerett wishing him all the best.

I was trying to help them get things sorted because i had just done it for someone else. Angry comments were made toward them so i suggested a way they could calm their consumers and optimize the execution of their idea. The reply i received wasn't professional. Being professional isn't just something you have to do at work, once you involve money and propose a project then you have to put up a good front.

This conversation has descended into the ridiculous. The very fact that i'm now being berated for, 'complaining,' is mind bogglingly detached from reality. If Geek Plug would actually like intelligent and logical feedback and support then they can pm me privately and i'd happily get involved, i have no interest in being associated with this thread. If i may quote Robert May, ahem, "That would look great on your CV, not so good on mine."

P.S. Quick angry people! This is where you get in the last word because i won't come back and make a fool of you.

arguemaniac wrote:

scipio.au wrote:Just saw this thread now. Wow. Funny conversation.

My thoughts:

Show some commitment and proof of concept -

1) Buy yourself a HD camcorder. They only cost a few hundred.
1a) Show you're serious before asking for money.
2) Write a script.
3) Film one of your videos.

How about he does none of what you say, and you just don't contribute any funds. Sounds a lot less complicated...

Sorry bub, but this thread doesn't need any more complainers.

I'm actually being constructive there, if a little glib. HD video cameras are quite cheap these days. Anyone with a reasonable job should be able to buy one without much hassle, particularly anyone with a passing interest in videography. "We're too poor" is hardly a good excuse in a hobby as expensive and, let's face it - frivolous as this one. I'm not really a complainer, but let's look at it logically - there's tons of free wargaming video content on YouTube. There's Beasts of War, which is mostly free.

If some guy who only joined Dakka a couple of months ago wants to come in with his hand held out for money, I think it's fair enough to expect to see at least a proof of concept and their own commitment to their project before pledging cent one. Rather than, you know "HAI GUYZ! Please give us money, because we'll be awesome! - Much better than all of those other guys who aren't asking you for money! We just need (you) to buy (us) a camera first!"

On another model forum I frequent, one of the regular posters is a really, really talented photographer. Whenever he photographed figures that he'd bought or loaned from a friend and posted them, you'd see 2-3 pages of compliments. His work made/makes the models look better than the careful prototype/advertisement shots put out by the actual companies. One day he had the bright idea of asking the other posters to send him money so he could buy more figures to photograph (these are $80-200+ models) since we all like his photos so much. That met with ...less enthusiasm. Eventually, he got in contact with some of the companies and showed them his work, as well as multiple threads full of stuff like "awesome pics man - I wasn't interested in that fig but it's on my to-buy list now." Now some of the companies send him figures for free to photograph and post the pics.

Point being - he did good work, we all knew how good his work was. When he asked for money, even with that, he met with a negative response as well as suggestions to take care of it himself. He did, and now he's getting it done better than if he'd actually has people happy to send him money. GeekPlug has ...a logo and a Kickstart page.

Hell, look at other Kickstart-type projects here. We're shown renders, proof of concept stuff. Real tangible stuff, which is also indicative of how serious and committed the creators are to their projects.

A quick update:

Rayvon wrote:
He did ask for suggestions though, and we are still yet to see anything, im quite interested me, but i want to see something before i start chipping in, these things need more than just good intentions.

We are in the process of setting up lighting as I type this, filming will begin shortly for the example that has been requested by the community. We will begin editing tonight and should have it up in the next couple days if not tomorrow.

We apologize we couldn't get it up yesterday we fell a little behind schedule.

New Rewards and New Video.

We just received word from our friends at Corvus Belli, makers of Infinity, that they will be donating five signed rule books and ten pieces of original signed artwork to the GeekPlug project.

So these will be added to our rewards to offer the supporters of this project a very unique opportunity to get their hands on products signed by the Infinity team.

Also, we have put up an example video of one of our starter tutorials. Obviously the video quality is bad, but that is exactly the reason for this Kickstarter.

The video and updated rewards can be found here.

Background music is distracting, voiceover version will be better.

You spend maybe a little long on each aspect. It's a video, people can pause it if they need to.

that, and the video showing the actual gameplay could be bigger.

BUT: very glad you made an example video, it's one thing to say what you might do, its quite another to actually do it and say "if you donate we can do it better". I'm seriously considering donating now, whereas before it all seemed like a fairly vague pipe dream.

Listening to people: a good idea

Charax wrote:Background music is distracting, voiceover version will be better.

You spend maybe a little long on each aspect. It's a video, people can pause it if they need to.

that, and the video showing the actual gameplay could be bigger.

BUT: very glad you made an example video, it's one thing to say what you might do, its quite another to actually do it and say "if you donate we can do it better". I'm seriously considering donating now, whereas before it all seemed like a fairly vague pipe dream.

Listening to people: a good idea

I actually dug out my old mixer today to get some audio for the voice over and couldn't get it to work. I'll work on getting a voiced version up and working tomorrow, I wanted to do it today but didn't have the resources.

The smaller video was a result of not having voice over and the absolutely horrible video quality. The video looked even worse at high quality, so I decided to move it over and make the text nice and easy to read. I do apologize about the small frame but I didn't feel like I had much of a choice. The little camera I picked up to do the shooting turned out to take worse video than I expected, even with as much lighting as I could possibly get on it (theres a picture of our setup on the facebook page). Hopefully the Kickstarter works out so we can pick up a D7000 and get you guys some amazingly clear video.

I'm not sure video quality really matters at this stage, to be honest - if it looks a bit grainy, well that's why you need funding!

as it's a demo, you should probably (in my view anyway) try to emulate what you'll be doing with the end product as closely as possible - so if your final product will have full-frame video, that would be a good idea for the demo too.

(oh, and make sure you have licenses for any music you do end up using!)

best of luck - and remember I'm just one person, feel free to ignore me

Charax wrote:I'm not sure video quality really matters at this stage, to be honest - if it looks a bit grainy, well that's why you need funding!

as it's a demo, you should probably (in my view anyway) try to emulate what you'll be doing with the end product as closely as possible - so if your final product will have full-frame video, that would be a good idea for the demo too.

(oh, and make sure you have licenses for any music you do end up using!)

best of luck - and remember I'm just one person, feel free to ignore me

We have permission from the artist to use his music during the Kickstarter campaign, he's actually a pretty rad guy. If the viewers of the site seem to like his stuff, we make work out a deal with him to keep using it.

As much as people in this thread may think we are, we're not actually ignoring anybody. We're taking it all in, listening to what everyone has to say and using it to improve on what we're doing.

Thanks for the input on the video Charax.

The Flash tutorial example that I have been working on is almost done.

It will be up shortly so you can get an example of what we will be presenting.

I'm currently working on getting the Flash example up on GeekPlug.com.

I will also have to contact Kickstarter to see if it's possible to get it embedded on the Kickstarter page, although I have a feeling it probably won't be possible.

Anywho, stay tuned.

Hmm, that example video is actually pretty helpful. I know I wish I'd seen something like that when starting warmahordes.

My only beef is that often you're measuring movement with the spray template sticking out farther than you're moving, thus getting to measure extra distance! Would be a shame if a new player copied that.

But I was pleasantly surprised at how helpful it was... I personally hate voice-overs so the text on the side was great (I guess that means I'm a visual learner ).

Also, from having spent a summer making math teaching videos, I can emphatically say that making a well done and easily followed video with text rather than voice is much harder and time consuming. So it is very appreciated!

I understand that was an example video and the video quality will be greater, but the fade in/out graphics are terrible. what are you working on, windows media maker?

If you don't have money to buy a decent camera the least you could invest in your own business before asking for more money is good production tools (software).

Also, first mistake as far as business goes: you explain in your "Project by" that "geekplug" is a "group of friends"

A business should never be a group of friends first. that tells me that if i was to invest in your business, I would be investing in a group of "friends" personal video productions group, not a business.

lord marcus wrote:I understand that was an example video and the video quality will be greater, but the fade in/out graphics are terrible. what are you working on, windows media maker?

If you don't have money to buy a decent camera the least you could invest in your own business before asking for more money is good production tools (software).

Also, first mistake as far as business goes: you explain in your "Project by" that "geekplug" is a "group of friends"

A business should never be a group of friends first. that tells me that if i was to invest in your business, I would be investing in a group of "friends" personal video productions group, not a business.

Lord Marcus,

It's fairly obvious you haven't read the whole thread. Just to get you up to speed, there's about 5 posts stating emphaticially that this is not a business. It's a project. It's an undertaking by a group of friends. You aren't investing, you are donating to help fund a web project. (Ideally, one you would be excited about coming to fruition.)

So this

:Also, first mistake as far as business goes: you explain in your "Project by" that "geekplug" is a "group of friends"

isn't a mistake. It's actually dead accurate.

lord marcus wrote:I understand that was an example video and the video quality will be greater, but the fade in/out graphics are terrible. what are you working on, windows media maker?

If you don't have money to buy a decent camera the least you could invest in your own business before asking for more money is good production tools (software).

Adobe Premiere Pro. The team has access to everything on the software side necessary to do this project.

I'm sorry to hear you don't like the quality of the video, my background is in photography, I had not worked with Premiere Pro much in the past.

I'm not happy with how it turned out much either and I have been in the process of re-working it ever since I talked with another very helpful Dakka member shortly after it went up. The video was shot the night before and I felt like it was important to get the video out ASAP.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

RiTides wrote:Hmm, that example video is actually pretty helpful. I know I wish I'd seen something like that when starting warmahordes.

My only beef is that often you're measuring movement with the spray template sticking out farther than you're moving, thus getting to measure extra distance! Would be a shame if a new player copied that.

But I was pleasantly surprised at how helpful it was... I personally hate voice-overs so the text on the side was great (I guess that means I'm a visual learner ).

Also, from having spent a summer making math teaching videos, I can emphatically say that making a well done and easily followed video with text rather than voice is much harder and time consuming. So it is very appreciated!

We really appreciate the Kind words Tides. Thanks.

Awesome, you got cb to help you out


Something I always wished cb has done was sell posters and art prints.


their art work is some of the best.

Yeah, we were very excited when we found out they were interested in our project.

Their community outreach is absolutely fantastic, they have some great employees there.

So... any pictures of the Infinity artwork yet?