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Stormwall DMG potential:

5 attacks * POW 20 * 0,72 (probability to hit DEF 12) = 72

Mountain King DMG potential:

7 attacks * POW 19 * 0,58 (probability to hit DEF 12) = 77,14

Assuming that my 12th grade math isn't completely forgotten, the Mountain King hits harder than the Stormwall even before we factor in the buffs that Trolls have make him hit even harder.

I think that epic Doomshaper has got a really big grin on his face waiting for the Mountain King to come in.

The only thing off in that is head to head the Stormwall doesnt have to hit a Def 12 he only has too hit a horrific Def 9! With a better Mat ( 6 to 5) to start with. Other than that the math is right

Don't forget the guns and spray. Colossals and Gargantuans
can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same activation.

obsidianaura wrote:I like the Kraken, just wish it had more arms.

But then that would mean it needed rules for the arms and make it OP

Yes, it would be utter borken with four 4" Reach tentacles to feed the corpse furnace.

malfred wrote:Don't forget the guns and spray. Colossals and Gargantuans
can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same activation.

No they cannot. They do not have Virtuoso.

What they can do is choose to do Ranged attacks while engaged, but if they choose to do Ranged attacks, then they cannot do Mellee attacks in the same activation.

PhantomViper wrote:

malfred wrote:Don't forget the guns and spray. Colossals and Gargantuans
can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same activation.

No they cannot. They do not have Virtuoso.

What they can do is choose to do Ranged attacks while engaged, but if they choose to do Ranged attacks, then they cannot do Mellee attacks in the same activation.

Ah.

Maybe I was thinking of Killshot then.

malfred wrote:
Maybe I was thinking of Killshot then.

Kill Shot allows you to make a single ranged attack after killing something in mellee, you are correct.

John D Law wrote:The only thing off in that is head to head the Stormwall doesnt have to hit a Def 12 he only has too hit a horrific Def 9! With a better Mat ( 6 to 5) to start with. Other than that the math is right

Except wasn't a head to head fight. It was an example of both having to hit DEF 12.

malfred wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

malfred wrote:Don't forget the guns and spray. Colossals and Gargantuans
can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same activation.

No they cannot. They do not have Virtuoso.

What they can do is choose to do Ranged attacks while engaged, but if they choose to do Ranged attacks, then they cannot do Mellee attacks in the same activation.

Ah.

Maybe I was thinking of Killshot then.

And now I can't find the link...but I'm 100% certain that one of the links in the gargantuans thread shows the Gargantuan collective rules...you know, they all have pathfinder, can be shot at in combat, etc. It says that they CAN make both types of attacks as initial attacks.

spyguyyoda wrote:
And now I can't find the link...but I'm 100% certain that one of the links in the gargantuans thread shows the Gargantuan collective rules...you know, they all have pathfinder, can be shot at in combat, etc. It says that they CAN make both types of attacks as initial attacks.

This is the link you are looking for:



And again, no, you cannot make ranged and mellee attacks in the same activation (with the exception on Kill Shot), what Gargantuans and Colossals can do that other models normally can't is choose to make ranged attacks while engaged in mellee.

PhantomViper wrote:

spyguyyoda wrote:
And now I can't find the link...but I'm 100% certain that one of the links in the gargantuans thread shows the Gargantuan collective rules...you know, they all have pathfinder, can be shot at in combat, etc. It says that they CAN make both types of attacks as initial attacks.

This is the link you are looking for:

Spoiler:

And again, no, you cannot make ranged and mellee attacks in the same activation (with the exception on Kill Shot), what Gargantuans and Colossals can do that other models normally can't is choose to make ranged attacks while engaged in mellee.

No wonder I couldn't find it...I can't view the image from here

I'll take your word for what it says then; my bad.

Ranged Attacks While In Melee
A gargantuan can make ranged attacks while in melee. A gargantuan never suffers the firing in melee penalty when targeting a model it is in melee with.
A gargantuan does not get an aiming bonus when targeting a model in its melee range.

Thanks!

We got to see the Colossals assembled last night in person.

We have a pic of all 3 side by side on our blog!

http://www.3forint.com/2012/06/colossals-assssemmmmblllllllleeee.html

MajorWesJanson wrote:

Dysartes wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:Now THAT is a colossal! Menoth from every angle, fantastic detail, so much so that it's making me consider taking up Menoth over Mercs next.

The nipple-flamethrowers stop me taking it seriously. Also, too much of a riot of angles.

Looks like a giant bullet trap to me. Especially near the head and missile launchers, and around the upper legs. "Let's just ricochet some rounds towards important features"

The Protectorate doesn't care about angles of armor as they just get a choir to follow it around and it can't be shot at anyway! They protect their walking churches very well.

I really like it, my only gripe is that the Avatar will look even weedier next to it!

Thanatos73 wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

Dysartes wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:Now THAT is a colossal! Menoth from every angle, fantastic detail, so much so that it's making me consider taking up Menoth over Mercs next.

The nipple-flamethrowers stop me taking it seriously. Also, too much of a riot of angles.

Looks like a giant bullet trap to me. Especially near the head and missile launchers, and around the upper legs. "Let's just ricochet some rounds towards important features"

The Protectorate doesn't care about angles of armor as they just get a choir to follow it around and it can't be shot at anyway! They protect their walking churches very well.

I really like it, my only gripe is that the Avatar will look even weedier next to it!

Did someone actually try and apply real world logic to the military designs in warmachine..? A game where 15 foot robots with legs shorter than mine hit eachother with anchors and swords?

Though the fury is great at 5, it does have the lowest Thres i think ive seen ( 6 right?) and snacking is no good in a fight against a jack or collossal. The whelps are nice if you get a chance to eat them. The stormwall also has access to mechanics which helps it so its not totally outclassed in support. Durability aside though the sad part is that the Cygnar Collossal hits harder not only in the expexted range but in melee! Thats very surprising, i can only imagine that the conquest would probably take out said mountain king in two fist strikes! Believe me i think its probably the best looking collossal/gargantuan so far but he should hits alot harder!!!

The threshold doesn't matter overly much, as the whelps can also be used to remove Fury. Even without spawning whelps, it's unlikely that anyone's going to choose NOT to pull Fury from the King instead of their other beasts. Not amazing for an alpha strike turn, but

As for the Conquest killing it, with the ubiquitous Krielstone aura in effect the Conquest would take an average of six attacks to take the Mountain King from full to dead (five sans aura). So without giving it some sort of buff, it needs a full focus load and above average rolls to actually finish the thing off. And if the King's still alive next turn, it'll be fully functional (whelps having ensured that all its aspects are intact) and most certainly won't leave the Conquest so with an average of 42 points of damage before the plethora of troll buffs, which push it up to a potential 77 points between the Krielstone and Mauler animus. Outside of Unearthly Rage, the Conquest can get a maximum average of 65 points against an ARM 19 colossal. Enough to kill pretty much anything of course, but the King will excel more at killing multiple heavy targets.

Of course, the better thing to compare it to would be Mulg. Less self-healing potential and less durable, but hits just as hard and more accurately. I'd argue that the King has a better animus (Amuck is brutal, especially with built-in Thresher), but Hordes does lack a lot of anti-upkeep tech so something of a wash there. Mulg's also a bit faster, assuming you can get your opponent to shoot him without one-turning him.

Where the King squeaks ahead is in his immovability. While you can't use any movement shenanigans on him (which Trolls don't have a hell of a lot of anyhow), never being denied your movement via KD or being slammed is great, and the potential to kill swaths of infantry with an Amucked Sweep followed by a Kill Shot.

PhantomViper wrote:

malfred wrote:
Maybe I was thinking of Killshot then.

Kill Shot allows you to make a single ranged attack after killing something in mellee, you are correct.

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that is the function of Quick Work. I'm not sure what Kill Shot does.

I have a really silly question... is this book out yet?

Both press gangers on Wednesday thought the answer was "yes" for some reason, but it wasn't at the store. Miniature Market still has the word "preorder" on its page...

So is it released yet, and if not, when does it release? Feels like this should be an easy question to answer, but for some reason this has happened to me a few times with PP products.

azazel the cat wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

malfred wrote:
Maybe I was thinking of Killshot then.

Kill Shot allows you to make a single ranged attack after killing something in mellee, you are correct.

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that is the function of Quick Work. I'm not sure what Kill Shot does.

Kill Shot does exactly that, once.

RiTides wrote:I have a really silly question... is this book out yet?

Both press gangers on Wednesday thought the answer was "yes" for some reason, but it wasn't at the store. Miniature Market still has the word "preorder" on its page...

So is it released yet, and if not, when does it release? Feels like this should be an easy question to answer, but for some reason this has happened to me a few times with PP products.

Early copies were released at Lock and Load I believe (perhaps not, maybe just a few copies were given out to various blogs/podcasts).

It releases worldwide as a general release in July.

Early release books were sold at Lock and Load.

Okay, that's what I thought, I just have 2 mis-informed press gangers, then

(One of them had indeed picked up a copy at LnL)

I love the models, they are awesome. Sadly nobody around here plays or collects warmachine. So collecting a force is kinda pointless for me.

Complete newb, but does the Colossals book also feature rules for that new sculpt of Ashlynn?

--

Aprion wrote:I love the models, they are awesome. Sadly nobody around here plays or collects warmachine. So collecting a force is kinda pointless for me.

Where you at, around Utrecht at any chance?

BrookM wrote:Complete newb, but does the Colossals book also feature rules for that new sculpt of Ashlynn?

No. It's just a resculpt of the current Ashlynn and uses the exact same rules.

Platuan4th wrote:

BrookM wrote:Complete newb, but does the Colossals book also feature rules for that new sculpt of Ashlynn?

No. It's just a resculpt of the current Ashlynn and uses the exact same rules.

Neat, means I just have to buy her and not a book to go with the dashing new sculpt. Thanks!

BrookM wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

BrookM wrote:Complete newb, but does the Colossals book also feature rules for that new sculpt of Ashlynn?

No. It's just a resculpt of the current Ashlynn and uses the exact same rules.

Neat, means I just have to buy her and not a book to go with the dashing new sculpt. Thanks!

Unfortunately, rumours are pointing at it being convention exclusive until 2013 when it moves to being another PP Webstore exclusive.

I hope that's wrong, though. Not sure I can wait that long.


Unless someone's willing to ninjashop at Gencon for me?

Platuan4th wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

BrookM wrote:Complete newb, but does the Colossals book also feature rules for that new sculpt of Ashlynn?

No. It's just a resculpt of the current Ashlynn and uses the exact same rules.

Neat, means I just have to buy her and not a book to go with the dashing new sculpt. Thanks!

Unfortunately, rumours are pointing at it being convention exclusive until 2013 when it moves to being another PP Webstore exclusive.

I hope that's wrong, though. Not sure I can wait that long.


Unless someone's willing to ninjashop at Gencon for me?

Awwww, there goes my smile.