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guessing that this is just a mistake. WD makes those on occasion.

Brymm wrote:Seems to be the right place for it and it seems like it should be brought up...

The FAQ seems to state that CSM Daemon Princes with wings are NOT flyers, just Jump Monsterous Creatures. Right. Chaos Daemons Daemon Princes with Flight ARE flying monsterous creatures. Okay.

So, White Dwarf magazine has a battle report between IG/GK and CSM/CD in some big free for all. In the game, the Chaos player takes a Daemon Prince from the Chaos MARINES codex and NO daemon princes from the Daemons book. In the report, he uses the daemon prince in swoop and glide modes and even performs a Vector Strike THEN a Molten Beam.
Two things here: Daemon Princes per the FAQ and BRB are NOT level 2 psykers so could not have nor use Molten Beam... yes? Second, Daemon Princes are not flying monsterous creatures so shouldn't be able to swoop and vector strike... yes?

So what do we have here? Wishful thinking from the White Dwarf staff? Incorrect rules usage on their part? Actual logic being applied? Are we reading the FAQ wrong? What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated!

Well, that´s not what it says in my FAQ (where it clearly states that they are Flying Monstrous Creatures), but then again, I´m using the german FAQ and we already know that french flyers are more awesome then english ones, for example. So I would give GW a month or two to get their sh1t straight before I´d make any big decisions I guess...

Also, the Daemon Prince in the BR has a Mark of Tzeentch, which allows him to take two psychic powers, making him Mastery Level 2? I think?

yes any model with mark of tzeench is mastery level 2.

Sadly i don't think typhus is mastery level 2...

You see, the rule book says that " Psykers are assumed to be mastery level 1 unless it states other wise in their codex entry."

So at this point he is level one. The only exception to this is "...number of powers that can be used per turn is their Mastery level." referring to older codexs.

Typhus can only use one psychic power per turn, as his force weapon does not count for two reasons

One, as per FAQ it cannot be used in addition to another power.

Two, I don't believe force weapons ability counts as a power rather a power from a piece of equipment (Under establishing a mastery level second paragraph) . But this point isn't needed as the ability has been FAQed away.

So although he knows more than one power, his mastery level is only one and as such he only has one warp charge

=(

Fiery form is only one charge tho so its all good. Are we sure thousand son sorcerers can take two powers? The faq says we can exchange powers and although mastery level 2 can only take one power. As per rule book (psycher knows an amount of powers equal to his mastery level) can they generate the extra power or only exchange the one??

khaosspacemarines wrote:
Sadly i don't think typhus is mastery level 2...

You see, the rule book says that " Psykers are assumed to be mastery level 1 unless it states other wise in their codex entry."

So at this point he is level one. The only exception to this is "...number of powers that can be used per turn is their Mastery level." referring to older codexs.

Typhus can only use one psychic power per turn, as his force weapon does not count for two reasons

One, as per FAQ it cannot be used in addition to another power.

Two, I don't believe force weapons ability counts as a power rather a power from a piece of equipment (Under establishing a mastery level second paragraph) . But this point isn't needed as the ability has been FAQed away.

So although he knows more than one power, his mastery level is only one and as such he only has one warp charge

=(

The german FAQ at least has him specifically at ML 1.

khaosspacemarines wrote:
Fiery form is only one charge tho so its all good. Are we sure thousand son sorcerers can take two powers? The faq says we can exchange powers and although mastery level 2 can only take one power. As per rule book (psycher knows an amount of powers equal to his mastery level) can they generate the extra power or only exchange the one??

Why would they be able to have more then one power? Codex rules always trump Basic rules unless otherwise stated. Their entry clearly states that they can take only one power; they would generate two Warp Points though, so could use a WP 1 power + activate their Force Weapon or use a WP 2 power.

Unless you´re talking about the Independant Character Chaos Sorcerer with a Mark of Tzeentch, which is clearly stated as getting two powers...

khaosspacemarines wrote:

Sadly i don't think typhus is mastery level 2...

The FAQ specifically states typhus is level 1

After reading over the rules, I'm really glad about the new edition. I can finally take Typhus as a useful choice! Anyways, how are full terminator champion units with mark of Nugle/Tzeentch, I had this in mind as a 'retinue' for Typhus;

5 Terminators
Champions
MON
4 Lightning Claws
Reaper Autocannon

I'm thinking about running this, but seeing how Close Combats been effected, is it worth it?

For Daemons, I can't believe no one has mentioned the skyshield landing pad.

For 75 points you get a pretty darn large area of 'no scatter' deep striking, and it doesn't seem to be destroyable.

It gets deployed on your table 'half' so its pretty much right in the middle of where the action is.

Fun modelling opportunity to make a Chaos Shrine in those dimensions.

Shep wrote:For Daemons, I can't believe no one has mentioned the skyshield landing pad.

For 75 points you get a pretty darn large area of 'no scatter' deep striking, and it doesn't seem to be destroyable.

It gets deployed on your table 'half' so its pretty much right in the middle of where the action is.

Fun modelling opportunity to make a Chaos Shrine in those dimensions.

I did already, over in the 40k army list section-just didn't put it over here. Don't worry, it's sorta been discussed

blood reaper wrote:After reading over the rules, I'm really glad about the new edition. I can finally take Typhus as a useful choice! Anyways, how are full terminator champion units with mark of Nugle/Tzeentch, I had this in mind as a 'retinue' for Typhus;

5 Terminators
Champions
MON
4 Lightning Claws
Reaper Autocannon

I'm thinking about running this, but seeing how Close Combats been effected, is it worth it?

why take LCs? with t5/fnp/2+ you have a deathstar. go with combimelta (take 1 plasma) and give them an assortment of power weapons. you can outlast pretty much anything with your current setup.


any way to make berzerkers viable? i was thinking you take a squad of PM and MoN termis, have them shield the berzerkers, and allow the MoN troops to get assaulted. they get to overwatch whatever hits them, then you have the berzerkers charge into combat. im determined to monkey-wrench in close-combat somehow and i hate nurgle/tzeentch themed armies, so this is as close as i can get.

i'd like this edition more if kharn, abaddon, and berzerkers weren't so thoroughly nerfed. now it's just PMs and typhus. ksons are playable, just not competitive.

what do we think would be the best psychic discipline for Typhus to choose from?? And how about the Best for a thousand sons sorcerer??

Or is it too situation, and the choice best made on what army your vsing.

Im thinking telepathy might be good for a thousand sons sorcerer. As there is only one power that im REALLY not keen on (mental fortitude), and they have the ability to use the higher end invisibility/ hallucination. Although some of the powers in telekinesis look good as well as do many of the Pyromancy,
(although half of these seem to be good anti hord powers, not suited to the thousand sons roll. One to melee and another giving a 4+ cover when we already have a 4+ invulnerable)

Typhus could benefit hugely from fiery form, but has not got a great chance to get it. Not really sure what to give him..

For khorne beserkers and kharne i say wait until the new dex... Abaddon was never that fantastic.... ( as far as i know) . He was always a huge, slow points sink, with a chance to cut his own head off.

khaosspacemarines wrote:what do we think would be the best psychic discipline for Typhus to choose from?? And how about the Best for a thousand sons sorcerer??

Or is it too situation, and the choice best made on what army your vsing.

Im thinking telepathy might be good for a thousand sons sorcerer. As there is only one power that im REALLY not keen on (mental fortitude), and they have the ability to use the higher end invisibility/ hallucination. Although some of the powers in telekinesis look good as well as do many of the Pyromancy,
(although half of these seem to be good anti hord powers, not suited to the thousand sons roll. One to melee and another giving a 4+ cover when we already have a 4+ invulnerable)

Typhus could benefit hugely from fiery form, but has not got a great chance to get it. Not really sure what to give him..

For khorne beserkers and kharne i say wait until the new dex... Abaddon was never that fantastic.... ( as far as i know) . He was always a huge, slow points sink, with a chance to cut his own head off.

Pyromancy>Telepathy>Telekinesis IMO

Pretty much all Pyromancy powers rule, Telepathy has really nasty Primaris Power for when you don´t roll what you want, TK is just to super-crazy-random for my taste.

As awesome as it is that Typhus and Ahriman are now competitive, don´t forget that they´re pretty much in the same situation as Kharn and Abbaddon were in 5th: competitive, but over-priced.

grifter wrote:
As awesome as it is that Typhus and Ahriman are now competitive, don´t forget that they´re pretty much in the same situation as Kharn and Abbaddon were in 5th: competitive, but over-priced.

I don't know if Ahriman is what you'd call 'competitive'.

He costs 85 more points than a Tzeentch Sorceror with two powers.

Is one warp charge really worth 85 points? You could buy an Obliterator and a Meltagun on a marine for that, or a Dakka Predator.

Nitros14 wrote:

grifter wrote:
As awesome as it is that Typhus and Ahriman are now competitive, don´t forget that they´re pretty much in the same situation as Kharn and Abbaddon were in 5th: competitive, but over-priced.

I don't know if Ahriman is what you'd call 'competitive'.

He costs 85 more points than a Tzeentch Sorceror with two powers.

Is one warp charge really worth 85 points? You could buy an Obliterator and a Meltagun on a marine for that, or a Dakka Predator.

I meant competitive as in "this guy does something useful/unique for my army", not "he´s competitively priced". None of the CSM Special Characters are, and most of the rest of the Codex isn´t either. Should have made that clearer initially.

Twiqbal wrote:

blood reaper wrote:After reading over the rules, I'm really glad about the new edition. I can finally take Typhus as a useful choice! Anyways, how are full terminator champion units with mark of Nugle/Tzeentch, I had this in mind as a 'retinue' for Typhus;

5 Terminators
Champions
MON
4 Lightning Claws
Reaper Autocannon

I'm thinking about running this, but seeing how Close Combats been effected, is it worth it?

why take LCs? with t5/fnp/2+ you have a deathstar. go with combimelta (take 1 plasma) and give them an assortment of power weapons. you can outlast pretty much anything with your current setup.

They don't have FNP, only Typhus and Plaguemarines have FNP, so basically, I'll give them a mixture of mauls, axes and swords?

Note on berzerkers; they are still very, very effective. Charged a group of 20+ sluga boys with 8 berzerkers (SC w/power sword). Had to charge 7 inchies which I barley made, challenged the enemy and got his big mek. In my initiative, the skull champion killed the big mek no problem, rest piled in abit and then killed 10-12 boys (+ the nob who was pretty close to the front). Now in the orks initiative step, they couldn't pile in enough to get into base to base (they were spread out to avoid blast marks), which resultet in my berzerkers winning without even being attacked ones.

Bottom line: Berzerkers are still WS 5, initiativ 4, +3 armor save and strenght 5 on the charge with 4 attacks, so stuff will still die for the blood god. Later they tried to charge a Shokk attack gun boy squad in difficult terrain and rolled 1,1 and 2.....so the new charge rolls can be pretty random

blood reaper wrote:

Twiqbal wrote:

blood reaper wrote:After reading over the rules, I'm really glad about the new edition. I can finally take Typhus as a useful choice! Anyways, how are full terminator champion units with mark of Nugle/Tzeentch, I had this in mind as a 'retinue' for Typhus;

5 Terminators
Champions
MON
4 Lightning Claws
Reaper Autocannon

I'm thinking about running this, but seeing how Close Combats been effected, is it worth it?

why take LCs? with t5/fnp/2+ you have a deathstar. go with combimelta (take 1 plasma) and give them an assortment of power weapons. you can outlast pretty much anything with your current setup.

They don't have FNP, only Typhus and Plaguemarines have FNP, so basically, I'll give them a mixture of mauls, axes and swords?

If you upgrade the whole squad to Champions, then give them each different power weapons, they have a weapon for each situation because Terminator Champions are characters so you could pick which weapon will fight in the challenge.

khaosspacemarines wrote:
Also as a force weapon causes instant death does this mean Typhus can't take FNP against it (if activated w/e). .

When I checked the new rule book, I saw nothing about force weapons causing instant death anymore. Did I miss something or have force weapons changed?

if you have access to power Swords, L-Claws and Power Axes, why woudl you ever take a Maul?


I am plannign on convertign some Chaos Assault terminators. I'm thinking 3x Twin Claws, 2 Chain Fists, Combi melta, Reaper - MoK and Champion (this'll give the claw 6 attacks on the charge)

Praxiss wrote:if you have access to power Swords, L-Claws and Power Axes, why woudl you ever take a Maul?


I am plannign on convertign some Chaos Assault terminators. I'm thinking 3x Twin Claws, 2 Chain Fists, Combi melta, Reaper - MoK and Champion (this'll give the claw 6 attacks on the charge)

Easier to hurt vehicles, not every army har +3 armor saves, you get to strike first the next turn against faster opponents if you survive and it's nice to strike at initiative 4 with +2 strenght in general. I want to try a Skull champion with a power maul, 5 attacks at strenght 7 with AP4 on the charge sound pretty nice.

Kevlar wrote:

Crimson-King2120 wrote:are noise marines fooked my entire army is noise marines

Your blast masters are much more deadly. Move and shoot, and kill vehicles much easier. Doom sirens should be nice too with overwatch. Sonic blasters are probably still overpriced. Not sure how they work with the new rules exactly.

Blastmasters got nerfed actually. Yes, they can move and shoot, but only the assault option since the heavy option is a blast, and you cannot Snap Shot blasts. So in essence, if you're planning on moving then you paid 40pts for an assault Heavy Bolter with 1 less shot. Standing still, they're still overpriced for what they are.

Sonic Blasters got more decent, though. Being able to move 10 Noise Marines and fire 30 shots, albeit Snap Shots, is awesome, but it depends on whether or not 20 shots at BS4 is better for you at that point. Also, they just became insane against chargers. Overwatching with the Heavy profile forces chargers to eat 30 bolter-equivilant shots before they even reach combat, and then they face 30 more I5 CC attacks if they manage it. Even charging a 30-strong Ork mob in there is just asking for trouble, plain and simple. Hordes usually haven't got the armour or toughness to withstand that sort of punishment, and unit that can withstand it are usually small enough to be crippled by losing even 1 or 2 models to overwatch fire.

Limbo wrote:

Praxiss wrote:if you have access to power Swords, L-Claws and Power Axes, why woudl you ever take a Maul?


I am plannign on convertign some Chaos Assault terminators. I'm thinking 3x Twin Claws, 2 Chain Fists, Combi melta, Reaper - MoK and Champion (this'll give the claw 6 attacks on the charge)

Easier to hurt vehicles, not every army har +3 armor saves, you get to strike first the next turn against faster opponents if you survive and it's nice to strike at initiative 4 with +2 strenght in general. I want to try a Skull champion with a power maul, 5 attacks at strenght 7 with AP4 on the charge sound pretty nice.

Hmm, good point. I forgot about the concussive bit. Now that it is AP4 you are actually likely see the effect of that happening (never understood the point of having it on a S10 weapons like a THammer).

Not sure if its been mentioned..

I was just thinking of how Lash can be used to really screw units with the new wound allocation rules.
Lash the heavy weapons or characters to the front of the unit, pushing the rest of the unit as far back as possible. This limits LoS saves then lets you focus fire on the specific model (models) you want.

Combined with "Focus Fire" rules, you can even just push your desired models out of terrain then focus on them instead of the squad.

Also, do not forget you can now run a list with dual Lash and Pavane. You could conceivably drag one unit across the table into the waiting maw of your army. Focus fire and kill. Rinse and repeat.

I am still really excited about what 6th does for CSM.
love the idea of cultists and cant wait to pick up some starter boxes.
Chaos demons as battlebrothers, as well as the potential for allied guard sometimes not only opens up some great options for a conversion nut like myself, but its making me think that i need to start selling my Ultramarines.
I have high hopes for a monster creature melee list.
3 Defilers
3 dreads with CCW
2 Demon Prince
2 squads of Plague marines
Greater Demon
Allied Demon Prince
Allied Nurglings
Allied Soulgrinder
This list just seems like it would be a nightmare on the table. That many giant demons and walking metal monstrosities would be pretty hard to deal with.

Praxiss wrote:if you have access to power Swords, L-Claws and Power Axes, why woudl you ever take a Maul?


I am plannign on convertign some Chaos Assault terminators. I'm thinking 3x Twin Claws, 2 Chain Fists, Combi melta, Reaper - MoK and Champion (this'll give the claw 6 attacks on the charge)

if you happen to know your opponent is playing orks, or guard, then there isnt much point to taking AP3 weapons. Either go for the ax or the maul


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green is Best! wrote:Also, do not forget you can now run a list with dual Lash and Pavane. You could conceivably drag one unit across the table into the waiting maw of your army. Focus fire and kill. Rinse and repeat.

at 2000 points you can easily fit quad lash princes

wouldn't quad lash prince be a little over kill? that's 620 on princes without even considering you probably want 450 on Oblits. Do you just relly on basic marines/ spawn to grab objectives?

sennacherib wrote:I am still really excited about what 6th does for CSM.
love the idea of cultists and cant wait to pick up some starter boxes.
Chaos demons as battlebrothers, as well as the potential for allied guard sometimes not only opens up some great options for a conversion nut like myself, but its making me think that i need to start selling my Ultramarines.
I have high hopes for a monster creature melee list.
3 Defilers
3 dreads with CCW
2 Demon Prince
2 squads of Plague marines
Greater Demon
Allied Demon Prince
Allied Nurglings
Allied Soulgrinder
This list just seems like it would be a nightmare on the table. That many giant demons and walking metal monstrosities would be pretty hard to deal with.

In fact, this is a real Monster Mash list, much better than in the 5th ed.

Quick question: is my MoT Sorcerer with three powers only Mastery 2? I would think he's lvl 3, no?

Powers come from: Required power, MoT extra power, familiar extra power)

Brymm wrote:Seems to be the right place for it and it seems like it should be brought up...

The FAQ seems to state that CSM Daemon Princes with wings are NOT flyers, just Jump Monsterous Creatures. Right. Chaos Daemons Daemon Princes with Flight ARE flying monsterous creatures. Okay.

So, White Dwarf magazine has a battle report between IG/GK and CSM/CD in some big free for all. In the game, the Chaos player takes a Daemon Prince from the Chaos MARINES codex and NO daemon princes from the Daemons book. In the report, he uses the daemon prince in swoop and glide modes and even performs a Vector Strike THEN a Molten Beam.
Two things here: Daemon Princes per the FAQ and BRB are NOT level 2 psykers so could not have nor use Molten Beam... yes? Second, Daemon Princes are not flying monsterous creatures so shouldn't be able to swoop and vector strike... yes?

So what do we have here? Wishful thinking from the White Dwarf staff? Incorrect rules usage on their part? Actual logic being applied? Are we reading the FAQ wrong? What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated!

With all the different language faqs and contradictions- Im playing as is in white dwarf. It seems just plain bizarre that CSM DP's with wings are different to daemon DP's with wings. It seems like someone at GW had a derp moment when putting that in. The only monstrous creature with wings in the game that ISN'T a flying monstrous creature! Why? Because its an old book and is getting redone soon? FMC's are nasty and we didn't want CSM/CD allies to go flying circus on everyone? A DP ate my baby and now i don't like them?

DMajiko wrote:Quick question: is my MoT Sorcerer with three powers only Mastery 2? I would think he's lvl 3, no?

Powers come from: Required power, MoT extra power, familiar extra power)

Mastery level is decided by how many spells you can cast each turn as per the new rulebook, MoT gives you the opportunity to cast two spells each turn as per the crappy old chaos codex. Familiar doesn't let you cast more powers each turn, it just gives you another option to choose from...