Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/25 21:41:20
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Nowhere does it say you do not have to specify a target.
If you do not then you are clearly going beyond the rules laid out in the BRB.
Choosing to disobey the law does not make it legal. But as they say, everything is legal until you get caught. Good luck with it.
and with that I take a bow....
|
GWAR wrote:Lol PBS are Psyker Battle Squads and are in the IG codex lolololol!!!1!!!1!!11eleventyone!!!!!!11!!!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/25 21:46:42
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
|
ArbitorIan wrote:Jabbdo wrote:The problem with Epi in a Chaos army is that you actually have to kill 20 of your opponents models to get the benefits. Against hordes its not that hard, but against marines, 20 guys is usually about half/a third of their whole army. By taking grots you get your tally up as soon as you come on.
Let's see what happens in the new Codex - you could get the best of both world by maybe sacrificing Cultists instead of Grots?
1) There is no new Daemon Codex, it's just an update to Screamers, Flamers, and rules for the chariots and Fantasy Soulgrinder
2) Cultists will be in Codex: CSM, which is not part of this discussion.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/25 21:57:04
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
Jabbdo wrote:I'm saying that I don't have to specify a target, as I can't specify a target. Therefore I have no unit to measure range to to see if the power works, as I'm not targeting anyone.
Actually, nothing about Aura of Decay says you can't specify a target. Therefore, you have to specify a target just as any other attack would-- it's just not hugely relevant, as other units within 6" are also hit. The key part here is that if your specified target is out of range, you can't use the attack, as per the basic shooting rules.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/25 21:57:56
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 00:01:50
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
|
I must be missing something because the exact wording of Aura of Decay is:
Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may in close combat at the time it uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strength 2 hit with Ap- (roll to wound as normal)
It is very clear that
1) You have to use it like a ranged weapon
2) Ranged weapon requires: LOS, target in range, target not in CC
3) Remove "Target not in CC" restriction
Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 01:52:37
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
|
Jabbdo wrote:feth it, this is going nowhere. Until FAQ'd, I'll just keep playing it so it works on the Grots, because otherwise the list is crap 
Edit: Stepping out of this thread
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 07:34:30
I play
I will magnetize (now doing LED as well) your models for you, send me a DM!
My gallery images show some of my work
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 02:59:22
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
|
Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 03:16:42
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.
Exactly. That's the part he keeps missing when he uses the Death Ray comparison; the Death Ray specifically replaces the target in range rule with a different one, while Aura and the accompanying FAQ all point to the same shooting restriction
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 04:14:55
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Stay on-topic, folks. If you're reaching for pejorative labels instead of reasoned argument, you're going to get in trouble.
|
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 04:57:34
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Boosting Space Marine Biker
|
Sounds like a hell of alot of fun
|
10-15K (way too many to point up)
4K |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 05:18:50
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Honored Helliarch on Hypex
|
This is disappointing. I really liked this list and felt that it had was a well-balanced representation of what two decade old codices could do together. I don't really want to admit the combo doesn't work, but the arguments here have managed to convince me.
Ironically, my boyfriend feels the opposite way. Go figure!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 05:30:57
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
leohart wrote:I must be missing something because the exact wording of Aura of Decay is:
Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may in close combat at the time it uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strength 2 hit with Ap- (roll to wound as normal)
It is very clear that
1) You have to use it like a ranged weapon
2) Ranged weapon requires: LOS, target in range, target not in CC
3) Remove "Target not in CC" restriction
Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.
I think the combo works. Aura of Decay doesn't have a shooting profile or a range listed. It hits everything within 6", but that doesn't mean that its range is 6". Being a ranged weapon still tells you what phase to use the ability, that it counts as a shooting attack for that model (as far as "actions" are concerned), and that if you run you can't do it. It doesn't explicitly remove the Target in Range restriction because it has to be de facto removed since there is no range listed.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 05:34:47
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
Emperor awfulness wrote:leohart wrote:I must be missing something because the exact wording of Aura of Decay is:
Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may in close combat at the time it uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strength 2 hit with Ap- (roll to wound as normal)
It is very clear that
1) You have to use it like a ranged weapon
2) Ranged weapon requires: LOS, target in range, target not in CC
3) Remove "Target not in CC" restriction
Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.
I think the combo works. Aura of Decay doesn't have a shooting profile or a range listed. It hits everything within 6", but that doesn't mean that its range is 6". Being a ranged weapon still tells you what phase to use the ability, that it counts as a shooting attack for that model (as far as "actions" are concerned), and that if you run you can't do it. It doesn't explicitly remove the Target in Range restriction because it has to be de facto removed since there is no range listed.
I believe that 6" is the range in question here. That said, if the weapon doesn't have a range, then RAW it can't be fired, because the target will never be in range and thus you aren't allowed to use the weapon.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 05:38:33
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
To further compound the problem, Aura of Decay clearly isn't a shooting weapon:
A shooting weapon always has one of the following types:
Assault, Heavy, Ordnance, Pistol, Rapid Fire or Salvo. These
rules (found on the next two pages) measure a weapon's
ponability and affect the way they can be fired, depending
whether or not the model carrying them moved that rurn. A
shooting weapon can only be used to make Shooting attacks.
People in my area are arguing Aura Of Decay doesn't do anything at all at the moment
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 09:09:51
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Andy Chambers
|
TzeentchNet wrote:Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.
Actually, different rules interpretation in cases where the rules are not 100% clear = differing opinions on how the rules interact.
The rule is not 100% clear, and I can see both sides of the argument, but I choose to believe that it would work, as that is how I interpret the wording. I've written out why I think it works multiple times, and you guys have written out your view. Think this is really gonna go anywhere? If you think it doesn't work, that's fine, no problem, but don't keep preaching your version on how it should be interpreted on the thread. Let the people who want to talk about the list do so.
@ TzeentchNet
So, because I see a rule working a different way than you do, you insult me in a condescending manner? Cool bro, mature stuff
|
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 09:41:53
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Ferocious Blood Claw
Adelaide, Australia
|
Meh, if someone brought this out against me I'd allow it, just for the potential fluff value.
|
DQ:90SG+M-B--I--Pw40k05#++D+++A+/mWDR+T(T)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 10:06:53
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Honored Helliarch on Hypex
|
I would too. But then, I also play with a house rule where wyches/bloodbrides/succubi get their dodge save against overwatch, Ghost Arks are 3 HP, and AV14-13-11 Leman Russ are HP4, and Screamers can assault flyers.
Generally speaking, 6e is an incredibly solid edition. They did a sketchy job of adapting the old rulebooks, though.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 10:07:51
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 10:18:52
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
Lost in the warp while searching for a new codex
|
Jabbdo wrote:TzeentchNet wrote:Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.
Actually, different rules interpretation in cases where the rules are not 100% clear = differing opinions on how the rules interact.
The rule is not 100% clear, and I can see both sides of the argument, but I choose to believe that it would work, as that is how I interpret the wording. I've written out why I think it works multiple times, and you guys have written out your view. Think this is really gonna go anywhere? If you think it doesn't work, that's fine, no problem, but don't keep preaching your version on how it should be interpreted on the thread. Let the people who want to talk about the list do so.
@ TzeentchNet
So, because I see a rule working a different way than you do, you insult me in a condescending manner? Cool bro, mature stuff
Actually, he is doing the opposite. != means "not equal to" it was the poster before him that was making the assumption that you were a cheater.
|
I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.
15k
10k |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/26 11:30:05
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Andy Chambers
|
tedurur wrote:Jabbdo wrote:TzeentchNet wrote:Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.
Actually, different rules interpretation in cases where the rules are not 100% clear = differing opinions on how the rules interact.
The rule is not 100% clear, and I can see both sides of the argument, but I choose to believe that it would work, as that is how I interpret the wording. I've written out why I think it works multiple times, and you guys have written out your view. Think this is really gonna go anywhere? If you think it doesn't work, that's fine, no problem, but don't keep preaching your version on how it should be interpreted on the thread. Let the people who want to talk about the list do so.
@ TzeentchNet
So, because I see a rule working a different way than you do, you insult me in a condescending manner? Cool bro, mature stuff
Actually, he is doing the opposite. != means "not equal to" it was the poster before him that was making the assumption that you were a cheater.
Ah, my bad, missed the !. But yeah, until this gets a FAQ (and it probably never will) there's no clear-cut answer.
|
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/16 21:43:01
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
|
Also in the chaos daemon codex it says "automatically suffer" the hits. The automatic part does suggest that it effects anyone in 6" without the stuff leading up to that hence the "automatic"
As well as this the FAQ also implies that aura of decay skips the targeting stage by the bit which says:
Q: Does Aura Of Decay limit what the rest of the unit can shoot and assault that turn
A: No
However if it was targeting the enemy unit then the unit would only be able to assault that enemy.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/17 03:32:35
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Water-Caste Negotiator
|
Trolltastic... I am not a big fan of Daemons (one way or another) but I have to give you 10/10 for creativity, 10/10 for style, 10/10 for ridiculousness. Papa Nurgle likes them Grots!
I would LOVE to see this army on the other side of the table... much more amusing (although just as deadly) than a TH/SS Termie spam list.
|
Why buy expensive 40k at retail price?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/469464.page#4727302
See the link above and get decent 40k armies for a decent price.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/22 14:04:20
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Andy Chambers
|
Thanks for the replies guys
I redesigned the list a bit to take advantage of the awesome new screamer rules. The Aegis line is also missing from this list, as I'm not sure how many tournaments in Finland will allow fortifications and we're playtesting without them in case they get banned so we aren't reliant on them. The loss of the Comm relay hurts, but what can you do.
Epidemius 110
Fateweaver 333
(12) Plaguebearers, Icon 205
(5) Plaguebearers 75
(5) Plaguebearers 75
(5) Plaguebearers 75
(9) Nurglings 117
(9) Nurglings 117
(8) Screamers 200
(8) Screamers 200
(8) Screamers 200
Big mek 35
(29) Grots, 2x runtherd 107
= 1849
So waves go:
1. Epi+12PB, Weaver, 3x screamer
2. 3x 5PB, 2x Nurglings
If you get the right wave, drop Weaver right up close to your opponent and flatout the Screamers (after dropping into safe positions) into his bubble and right up in your opponents face. Your opponent then has to deal with them, leaving you free to set up the Plague bomb and start moving your Nurgle stuff into position to finish him once the Screamers die (if they die, they're pretty fething scary)  If he neglects to deal with the Screamers and shoots your Nurgle crap, then they'll rape his whole army. If he shoots them (which he should) then the Nurgle stuff is free to set up Tally and move up. Either way, its win-win.
Wrong wave, drop the Nurglings close to put a bit of pressure on (they don't get any survivability bonus from Tally so might as well) and hide the small PB squads.
You're helpless against Flyers, true, but with 36" movement on the Screamers (move+turbo) and premeasuring you should be able to limit the amount of targets they can actually fire on, by blocking their minimum 18" moves and forcing them to either fly over or fire on less valuable targets. On the other hand, nothing in the army really even fears Vendettas, only really Night scythes are sort of scary, and even then you still win objective games with a bit of smart maneuvering.
Comments, criticisms?
|
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 18:16:52
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Andy Chambers
|
PS. I came across this on BOLS a couple of weeks ago, make me laugh: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/nurgle-daemon-and-allied-orks.html
I mean come on, if you're gonna steal the list at least change the text a bit, instead of just cntrl+C the whole thing word for word
|
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 18:23:56
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Boosting Black Templar Biker
|
You need a chaos lord in there so you can try and get the Invisiblity physic talent.
You can give your Screamers a 3++ cover save from shooting.
And it makes the models they are in CC with have WS1 base.
Oh and then you should look at Flamers... they are 9-10 points cheaper per model... and they have AP2 flamers that glance on a 4+, you should be able to glance down a LR in 1 round of shooting. Oh.. and who in there right mind would charge them, so they can overwatch 6-,8 or 9 d3 AP2 flamers at you..... it's slowed.
And if you want to keep all of that alive... put Fateweaver in the middle so you can re-roll all of your saves...
|
Black Templars 3000
Grey Knights 3000
Menoth 190 points
Circle 60 points |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 21:21:57
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Seeing as the OP here was posted on the 17th July and the BoLS post on the 26th I'd say that it was BoLS that did the copying.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/23 21:22:21
-Tom Leighton
- Ireland ETC - Eldar - 2016
-Former 17 year old intro welcomer for dank post count. Pls forgive me <3 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 21:36:39
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
|
Since Jabbdo is the OP of this thread. What he meant was that BOLS indeed copied his stuff.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 21:43:08
Subject: "Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Good point, my bad. Man I'm failing hard today  .
|
-Tom Leighton
- Ireland ETC - Eldar - 2016
-Former 17 year old intro welcomer for dank post count. Pls forgive me <3 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/23 22:32:40
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
I originally saw this list on BoLs and then discovered this thread later. I think its at once lulzy, cheesy, and fluffy. It needs 3x Flying Nurgle Daemon Princes for AA imo though.
|
Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/25 17:53:25
Subject: Re:"Plague Bomb" - Possibly the most ridiculous combo ever? - Daemons in 6th @ 2k
|
 |
Andy Chambers
|
Amaya wrote:I originally saw this list on BoLs and then discovered this thread later. I think its at once lulzy, cheesy, and fluffy. It needs 3x Flying Nurgle Daemon Princes for AA imo though.
Thanks
IDK about the Princes, they're not very point efficient AA (str6 vector strikes aren't that scary, especially when you pay ~200pts per Prince). In my experience Daemons just can't deal with Flyers at all without Allies, and even with Allies they really struggle at it.
Usually I'd only take a single Vendetta if allying with IG as its really point efficient at downing other Flyers, otherwise I just don't bother and try to kill everything my opponent has on the ground while trying to outmaneuver the Flyers.
|
"Dire Avengers are even great in close combat, I mean, an Exarch with a Diresword can even take down a Carnifex!!"
EUROCHEESE - You can smell it.
|
|
 |
 |
|