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Exalted, this is just too creative!

REDACTED.

Well done Jabbdo, well done.

This is the most creative list I've seen in a long time.

So I'm assuming you DSed within 6" of a legal target with epi/herald and then moved/ran the grots up close enough for the aura also? It's a bit tricky but I guess it can be done.

Ok, battle report is out.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/464118.page

It'll be finished in a couple of days.

Nice!

I haven't had time to playtest it at all myself yet, as I've been caught up playing lots of practice matches for the ETC, and assembling/painting the fleet of Cron Scythes I'm taking to a tournament next week, but after that I'll try and get some games in with it, and maybe take it to tournament later this year, just for the lol factor

Jabdo, I have to say this is brilliant.

Str10 pie plates are your only problem.

However, a couple of flaws.

You really should be going first and you need to get epi fisrt turn.

This leaves you with less than a 50% success rate.

Could the Grots go in a bastion with some sort of Teleport Homer? I don't have 6th Ed yet, but they could sit until Epi makes his entrence...

However, a couple of flaws.

More than a couple. You have virtually no AA. Your plague bearers can be tank shocked off the table. You still have to get a legitimate target within 6" of the aura and your grots within 6". I would expect a turn two or three tally at the quickest. That leaves your opponent the opportunity to do some early damage. Now some of these problems could be mitigated by shoring up your Ork attachment. Dakkajets, big guns and lootas would be welcome and would take some heat off epi. I think DPs are better than screamers. But the core concept has some merit.

felixcat wrote:

However, a couple of flaws.

More than a couple. You have virtually no AA. Your plague bearers can be tank shocked off the table. You still have to get a legitimate target within 6" of the aura and your grots within 6". I would expect a turn two or three tally at the quickest. That leaves your opponent the opportunity to do some early damage. Now some of these problems could be mitigated by shoring up your Ork attachment. Dakkajets, big guns and lootas would be welcome and would take some heat off epi. I think DPs are better than screamers. But the core concept has some merit.

How would his plague bearers be tank shocked off the table? They're fearless.

I would also back Daemon Princes, with MoN and flight they could be pretty brutal once the tally gets going and fit with the Nurgle theme of the list.

amasokka88 wrote:How would his plague bearers be tank shocked off the table? They're fearless.

I would also back Daemon Princes, with MoN and flight they could be pretty brutal once the tally gets going and fit with the Nurgle theme of the list.

I could be wrong, but I think you can still force fearless units to move via tank shock. You can't make them flee, but if you end the tank shock where the unit is, they have to move out of the way of the tank.

Also, a Daemon Prince won't benefit too much from the tally. I think the only benefit would be wounding in CC on a 2+, and ignoring armor on shooting, which depending on what gift you give them isn't anything new. I'd still put a few in there, just because I love them though.

undertow wrote:

amasokka88 wrote:How would his plague bearers be tank shocked off the table? They're fearless.

I would also back Daemon Princes, with MoN and flight they could be pretty brutal once the tally gets going and fit with the Nurgle theme of the list.

I could be wrong, but I think you can still force fearless units to move via tank shock. You can't make them flee, but if you end the tank shock where the unit is, they have to move out of the way of the tank.

You just have to move them out of the way, which is usually to the side of the tank. To actually tank shock them off the board you would have to have them blocked on both sides of their unit and shock them up the middle, AND it would need to be near the board edge. Somehow, I don't see this happening.

AFAIK, I don't need to have any unit near me to activate Aura of Decay. It just hits any enemy model within 6".

Aura of Decay: "..is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may be in close combat at the time he uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" suffer...". Nothing says that I need to have a target for the power, if you read it RAW. Same thing as the Doom Scythe's Death ray, you draw the line, and if there's no one under it then no one is hit. No targeting necessary.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Epidemius will either come on on turn 1, or on turn 2 with a rerollable 3+. So you're pretty likely to get your tally up quite quickly.

I asked this question in the rules forum because I was of the opinion that perhaps it did not. Here was the only reply:

All shooting ranged attacks require a target.

1) It is a ranged weapon (and therefore a shooting attack) and it does need LOS as per the daemon FAQ.

2) If you try to shoot something further than the listed range of the weapon with a shooting attack: (6th ed BRB) "...at least one weapon must be in range of the target unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen..." then you must select another target. So no you cannot target something further than 6 inches away.

I want this to work, I really do. But I cant find the rule in the book where desperate allies count as enemies for shooting attacks. As far as I can tell, they can't be harmed by his aura of decay.

OK first off cheese but other then that the look on the other guys face should be priceless.

Igenstilch wrote:I want this to work, I really do. But I cant find the rule in the book where desperate allies count as enemies for shooting attacks. As far as I can tell, they can't be harmed by his aura of decay.

Could be from these 2 passages.

"Desperate Allies are treated exactly like Allies of Convenience" plus One Eye Open.

"Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them."

I don't think Aura of Decay shoots at all nor does it target so... seems legit. I just hope the same thing can be done with Chaos Cultists.

Lou_Cypher wrote:

Igenstilch wrote:I want this to work, I really do. But I cant find the rule in the book where desperate allies count as enemies for shooting attacks. As far as I can tell, they can't be harmed by his aura of decay.

Could be from these 2 passages.

"Desperate Allies are treated exactly like Allies of Convenience" plus One Eye Open.

"Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them."

I don't think Aura of Decay shoots at all nor does it target so... seems legit. I just hope the same thing can be done with Chaos Cultists.

Ah, Cant believe I missed that. This, will be, so awesome =D

felixcat wrote:
I asked this question in the rules forum because I was of the opinion that perhaps it did not. Here was the only reply:

All shooting ranged attacks require a target.

1) It is a ranged weapon (and therefore a shooting attack) and it does need LOS as per the daemon FAQ.

2) If you try to shoot something further than the listed range of the weapon with a shooting attack: (6th ed BRB) "...at least one weapon must be in range of the target unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen..." then you must select another target. So no you cannot target something further than 6 inches away.

Its the same thing as a Doom Scythe. You pick the first point, draw a 3D6" line, then see if there was anyone under it. Its completely possible that the Doom Scythe might miss because of this (ie, the Rhino you were trying to shoot was 16" away, and you rolled 3 ones on your 3D6", so your line doesn't touch it. The shooting attack is still legal, as the wording on the way it shoots is different from ordinary weapons that require BS rolls to hit, or templates that require scatter rolls.

Aura of Decay: "..is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may be in close combat at the time he uses it, as may the targets. When used, ALL enemy models within 6" suffer...".

The keyword here is ALL. It means I don't have to specify any targets, as I actually CAN'T specify targets, the word ALL clearly prohibits me from doing so. When I activate the power, EVERY enemy model within 6" takes the hit. It's the same thing, as, say, the SW Psychic power Thunderclap:

"A Rune Priest may use Thunderclap as a Psychic shooting attack. Place the large blast marker so it is touching the Rune Priest. Any enemy model touched by the marker takes a s3 ap5 hit."

So, I roll my Psychic test, then place the marker. I can place the marker even if the nearest enemy model is 70" away, nowhere does it specify that there have to be enemy models within reach of the blast marker. Obviously, if there are none, then the power does nothing, but you get the point.

It's not the same as thunderclap at all. The daemon FaQ says a shooting attack requires a target. There are no exceptions. Yes, it will affect the grots within 6" but you still need another target within range.


[

felixcat wrote:It's not the same as thunderclap at all. The daemon FaQ says a shooting attack requires a target. There are no exceptions. Yes, it will affect the grots within 6" but you still need another target within range.


[

Care to quote the FAQ? I just checked it, the only reference to Daemonic shooting attacks I can find is that Aura of Decay requires LOS.

Actually I rechecked the FaQ - seems it may indeed not require a target despite needing LoS. This seems strange but I think until FaQed you might be right. I was confusing LoS with a targeted ability. .

Honestly, aside from the 3 princes, this list doesnt scare me too much. As a guard/marine player who still uses plenty of armor in 6th, you have no anti-armor aside from CC really. You stand the chance of being wiped the turn your first wave comes in unless you hide everything behind cover. This list is neither fluffy nor viable but it is kind of funny so...bravo.

Fantastic idea

BTW you should get FNP against S10. The debate is that Daemons are immune to the effects of Instant Death therefore S10 doesn't inflict Instant Death and you get FNP.

Yeah, I think if you read the Eternal warrior rule RAW they would get FnP against str10, but then again some TO's might rule against you, as its not completely clear. In our gaming group we agree it works though.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

godzilla757 wrote:Honestly, aside from the 3 princes, this list doesnt scare me too much. As a guard/marine player who still uses plenty of armor in 6th, you have no anti-armor aside from CC really. You stand the chance of being wiped the turn your first wave comes in unless you hide everything behind cover. This list is neither fluffy nor viable but it is kind of funny so...bravo.

This is how I would run it at 2k, tweaked from the original list:

Epidemius 110
Herald of Nurgle, Aura of Decay 85

(14) Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 235
(14) Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 235
(8) Plaguebearers 120
(8) Plaguebearers 120

(12) Screamers 192
(12) Screamers 192
(12) Screamers 192

Big Mek 35
(15) Lootas 225
(27) Grots, 2x Runtherd 99
Battlewagon 90

Aegis Defence line, Comms relay 70

= 2000

Dropped some PB's, picked up Lootas to be able to deal with 1-2 Flyers, and to have some long ranged presence in case your Screamers can't reach a tank or something. The BW is there because its cheap and keeps your Lootas really safe against some lists.

Waves go:

Epi+Herald+14x PB, 2x12 Screamers
14x PB, 2x 8 PB, 1x12 Screamers

If Epi comes down first turn, you get the Tally boost on t2. If you get the wrong wave, you've got a rerollable 3+ to bring him in on t2, and you get Tally up on t3. If going first, that's either 1-2 rounds of shooting without 3+ FnP up. Second, 2-3 rounds. Either way, I don't really see how you intend to table this list, even if going first, you're still looking at 29 Grots laughing at you from GtG behind 3+ cover, and Lootas sitting in their BW scratching their asses.

TBH, I don't really see many balanced marine lists beating this. IG has a better chance, but I'd still say the Daemons have the upper hand, except against something ridiculous like 9 Vendettas. Feel free to post a list and prove me wrong, though

Seeing as you are bunching 29 grots + 2 herds behind an Aegis line I think any list with a flamer that can reach you before Epidemius is in will be able to kill off the grots before you can get any tally up.

My preference: Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter

If I see my opponent has something that will reach and kill my Grots, I'll probably just hide them in a corner somewhere, behind the BW to block LOS to them. Also, the Aegis line is actually tall enough to block LOS to Grots completely (I think, don't have the model to check atm). If it is, that would be hilarious

Without being too well-versed in the intricacies of Chaos Demons, I have to say that IMO this to concept is hilarious and exactly what 40k should embody!

Consider this exalted, I'll be watching for some more battle reports to appear and show off the insanity of this list. Personally I'd love to fight it and see if I could stave off the implacable advance of Nurgle.

I dunno; it's cool and all but what happens on a first turn DS libby that hits him with JotWW or Warp Rift....Epi has a low I after all.... I know I'd sacrifice a libby if it meant winning the game.

If Aura needs LoS, wouldnt that mean it needs a target?