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2012/08/09 15:27:13
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Kilkrazy wrote:Reinvention is a key part of the American Dream.
Exactly so. Celebrities can't just go from strength to strength. They need to fall to rise. The comeback is a powerful thing and not just for the star in question. When a star makes a comeback, people think of their own lives from the time when that star used to be popular. The celebrity reinvention is the reinvention of non-famous people writ large. It's a public spectacle but more importantly it is a public ritual.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 15:27:39
Monster Rain wrote:I guess what confuses me about that is that you don't have to listen to or watch either of them if they don't appeal to you.
I'm not a fan of either of those two people you mentioned, but I'm not angry at them about it.
That's kind of a weird way to look at it, as if celebrities are like annoying distant relatives that you can just skip visiting on holidays.
Nope, celebrities are much more like your close relatives that you can't get rid of no matter what. Everywhere you go, there they are. For a while, you try to ignore them. But Bieber's always screaming in your ear and Paris is flashing her lady parts up in your face. It gets a bit grating.
Honestly, I listen to a fair amount of pop radio and I don't hear a lot of Bieber. But the point is if I don't appreciate someone's art or whatever, I simply avoid them when I can.
I can understand hearing something too many times to the poit that the song becomes grating, though. That friggin Gotye song, for example.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
2012/08/09 15:52:49
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Or in my case, that annoying "photograph song from nickelback.
Or, well, any new nickelback really. But I can at least just change my Sanza and turn up the volume if all else fails.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/08/09 15:59:37
Subject: Re:The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Monster Rain wrote:That friggin Gotye song, for example.
My god that is the worst. It is on every channel always -- well, whenever they are not playing that Maroon 5 song about the pay phone. So there you go: not hating to hate. Just fething sick of it. Yeah, I turn the radio off. But that's a shame right and it pisses me off because I should be able to hear something worthwhile on the fething radio. I'm not saying, it should be all my favorite songs all the time. But Gotye on 60% of the time? Me turning off my radio isn't me avoiding that trash. It's me being driven away from the radio.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 16:00:13
I liked "Someone Like you" a lot, which is weird because I'm not a fan of love ballads. However, I couldn't get away from her. I was just over-exposed to her on the same level as Cold Play, I think.
I'm glad she won her Grammies, but I want to hear something else, now.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/09 16:10:24
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2012/08/09 16:36:42
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Monster Rain wrote:I'm actually a pretty big fan of Adele.
I don't like her at all, one of the few it seems.
The problem I have, is well, primarily I am shallow and thnik that there are millions of ugly people, I want performers to be attractive!
But also that being a great singer isn't actually that rare is it! I reckon about 1 in every 100 people are great singers, all you have to do is turn on any talent show, there are thousands and thousands of great singers. Everyone knows a good singer don't they?
So I think to be a great musician, you have to be the complete package, like, Lady Gaga is better and I'm not that keen on her, but at least she is not only a good singer, she is decent looking, has that whole weird image and original style and has played the media like a fiddle, her music is not to my taste, but it IS pretty unique, she doesn't seem to stick to one genre, some of its like dance or pop, she does rapping, she plays instruments , that kind of thing.
Adele is just a fat honking bird with a great voice but a head the same size as a dumpster.
There's fething millions of them!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 16:37:05
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2012/08/09 16:40:05
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
It's ridiculous that Adele has sold more records than Michael Jackson. Whether you like his music or not, you can't deny his massive influence on pop music. Adele, OTOH could almost be slotted into the lineup of any decade since the 1950s and not sound out of place.
mattyrm wrote: I don't just agree with Dogma, he is irrefutably correct. Its fething obvious, the people that give a feth/depend on your efforts in life be it monetary or otherwise think you matter. But nobody else does.
Now, I'm probably more important than most of you lot because I am so charming and witty and as such have a large circle of friends.
But I'm less important than some fether that sings or dances. Do any of us think were going to get one of those pointless "RIP" threads on dakka, or some dog gak facebook group remembering us? I mean, I don't think famous people are important either really in the grand scheme of things, but they are more important than the proles. You don't even gave to be famous, If you are pretty rich you are more important too right? (And they all bloody are.. famous people I mean obviously)
Surely a bloke who pays $1 million a year in tax, is pretty important, because his contribution feeds sick kids, pays for food and ammo for our serving soldiers.. whatever, clothes the hungry and helps in the other myriad ways the government spends it.
Does a hobo with no friends and no income who pays no taxes and does nothing but take "matter"? Who does he matter to? And why does he matter? I might matter a little if even one penny of my income tax feeds a kid, but him? nobody cares when he dies, ndobdy will go to his funeral, and nobody will even notice.
The definition of not mattering!
Or what about some career wellfare recipient whose very existence poisons the fething world? Does he matter?
No he doesn't.
What I don't understand is, why do you lot get so pissed at Dogma for stating what is an obvious fact!
And if you notice I agreed with him multiple times that these people are made important. But that isnt the crux of the discussion.
Im not arguing that point of importance or not.
I'm saying Yes Dogma/Amaya you are correct that these people are important to many in many ways, etc.
But that isnt what the crux of the OP's first post was about.
We are debating why these types feel that their status allows them to be donkey caves to others and act like they are above needing to be a decent person with humility and a sense of social grace. Why they feel that if they do somethign horrible that if they cry about it and launch a t-shirt line that somehow everything is now all right...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 17:28:01
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/08/09 17:25:56
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Jokes aside, that these jerkoffs are role models saddens me.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/08/09 17:33:12
Subject: Re:The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Its how the media and the players PR cast them. Its acceptable to society though that the "bad" can be made "good" again. Which doesn't stop them from making a profit off their behavior.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/08/09 17:35:11
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
The incompetence of the media, epseically the tabloids, has long been known. That doesn't mean that the guy should no longer be reviled.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/08/09 20:55:19
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
My original point was not really about not liking or disliking celebrities, but rather the weird situation where an utter gak like Vick can emerge from a shitstorm of hatred against him and actually market that, actually flourish from it and actually end up being worth more because of a return from a scandal like this. To the stage where people will hold this or that guy or girl up as an example of success rather than the stain besmirching their career for years and years to come.
If Vick had been a British football player, he'd be booed as soon as he emerged on the pitch, he'd lose masses of sponsership and the crimes would haunt him for decades if not the rest of his career, indeed, it might well end his career.
Instead, due to this peculiarly American ritual, he can fulfill a preset criteria of weepy atonement noises on talk shows, mention God and Jesus (and perhaps 'ma kids' if you have them) and get some close up shots of some drooling skanks in the audience getting weepy with you and bang, back in business and indeed, you can sell a Tshirt with 'redemption' on it or boxers with 'I am an X crackwhore' and it's a winner!
If only poor old Gary Glitter had been a yank, he could have gone on the morning show with Regis and Kelly, had a good cry about sticking his devil in kiddies, said that Jebus saved him and then gone on to continue a great career, perhaps launching a range of teenies clothing called 'No Kidding'...
Look at Michael Jackson, the dude's treated like a saint. A while back there was 'some mention' that he had been molesting children, it doesn't get a whisper now.
2012/08/09 21:37:45
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
I by no means condone what Vick did but seriously, he completed his jail time. He paid his debt to society. I know people who kill kids DWI who get less vitriol than Vick.
If you did something terrible, went to jail, paid your dues, and then came back out in the world, wouldn't you want to get back to your previous life? In my opinion, he's opened a huge amount of discourse about the prevalence of dog fighting and if anything has made the public much more aware than it was before. Not saying he should be commended for doing terrible things but isnt the whole point of our justice system to rehabilitate?
Also I am saying this as someone who volunteers at a rescue shelter and I only work with dogs. I love dogs, probably more than I like most people. But the double standard shown to this guy just amazes me.
At what sentence are his crimes forgivable? 5 years? 10 years? Never because he's rich and famous?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if you want to blame to celebrity cult in America, ask why we're paying 18 yo kids millions of dollars to play with a ball? Ask why funding for schools is heavily wrapped up in sports?
But really, ask yourself how you would act if you grew up being told you were amazing because you threw a ball good by literally everyone you knew. Ask yourself how you would act growing up poor and being suddenly thrown millions of dollars and the keys to the city, all because you can kick a ball. If you really think you'd be the same person you are now, your full of it. Money and power like that always breeds donkey-caves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 21:44:55
2012/08/09 22:20:54
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
Also if you want to blame to celebrity cult in America, ask why we're paying 18 yo kids millions of dollars to play with a ball? Ask why funding for schools is heavily wrapped up in sports?
I do ask that. Stil haven't gotten a sane answer.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/08/09 22:29:37
Subject: The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
But really, ask yourself how you would act if you grew up being told you were amazing because you threw a ball good by literally everyone you knew. Ask yourself how you would act growing up poor and being suddenly thrown millions of dollars and the keys to the city, all because you can kick a ball. If you really think you'd be the same person you are now, your full of it. Money and power like that always breeds donkey-caves.
Then how come not all pro athletes act this way? In fact most don't.
Many of kids who experience exactly the scenario you describe are well adjusted, humble, and very much not donkey caves?
vick and others chose to do what they did and act the way they do.
I'll say again: Instead of putting out a t-shirt line prolaiming "redemption" maybe get involved with animal rescue or some other charity work.
But really, ask yourself how you would act if you grew up being told you were amazing because you threw a ball good by literally everyone you knew. Ask yourself how you would act growing up poor and being suddenly thrown millions of dollars and the keys to the city, all because you can kick a ball. If you really think you'd be the same person you are now, your full of it. Money and power like that always breeds donkey-caves.
Then how come not all pro athletes act this way? In fact most don't.
Many of kids who experience exactly the scenario you describe are well adjusted, humble, and very much not donkey caves?
vick and others chose to do what they did and act the way they do.
I'll say again: Instead of putting out a t-shirt line prolaiming "redemption" maybe get involved with animal rescue or some other charity work.
Pretty much on the buttonright there.
2012/08/09 23:05:57
Subject: Re:The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
That product line going to sell though. The name of the brand and the individual who is selling it. I would further go on and mention some grps of individuals that would be buying the product but I notice the "hate" word can easily be applied. I hate one grp of individuals with a passion and their "insurgents" (AQ and the Taliban in that mix to)
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2012/08/09 23:14:24
Subject: Re:The American glorification of 'Redemption'. NSFW image.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
If Vick had been a British football player, he'd be booed as soon as he emerged on the pitch, he'd lose masses of sponsership and the crimes would haunt him for decades if not the rest of his career, indeed, it might well end his career.
