Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This isn't really a rules question, but a question nonetheless.
In the YAMS from wargamingtrader, the game length is described as 4-5 turns. Is that in Player turns or Game turns?

The CF, without having those missions to hand I would probably say game turns? What context is the description used in?

OK, one more question!

- My unit is in cover and gets hit by a direct template weapon (flame thrower/nanopulser etc.). She is hit automatically, but does she get +3 armour for her saving throw for being in partial cover?

They only say that "Game length is four turns for a 4'x4' table and five turns for a 4'x6'"
It just strikes me as a lot... I've never even seen a game go to the third turn.

Oh, and yes, you get arm for cover, even against direct template weapons.

I just read on E/Mitters that they can go through total cover but you still get a +3 to the BTS roll.

 The CF wrote:
They only say that "Game length is four turns for a 4'x4' table and five turns for a 4'x6'"
It just strikes me as a lot... I've never even seen a game go to the third turn.

Oh, and yes, you get arm for cover, even against direct template weapons.

Great thanks for that!

I've had a few games last that long, but I agree usually it is over or one side is retreating off the board with a couple of models by that point

Ok, in a similar vein...mines.

I have heard that a trick with mines is to lay one around the corner from an enemy model in such a way that the enemy is within the mine's ZoC, thereby meaning that if the model does anything (other than Discover/Defensive Hacking?) then the mine goes off and gets them. Now, how does this work? Is the enemy model counted as in Total Cover (meaning that they cant be affected), are they in Partial Cover (if they are moving round the corner)? But what if they are moving away from the mine....? Im just confused.

Also, the same question, but for walls. Whenever i read about this tactic walls are mentioned (place the mine one side of a wall, inside ZoC etc.), are these assumed to be Total Cover walls or not? If they are, how does the mine actually hurt the enemy model?

Many Thanks...

I think you're thinking a bit wrong
Your dude, with mines is standing around the corner of an enemy guy. Your guy lays down a mine in base contact with himself, and he lays the mine so that the opposing figure clearly can see the mine. However, your opponent doesn't get any ARO since he can't actually see the guy laying the mine, only the mine itself... which will now activate if he does anything.

Ahh, that makes FAR more sense! So the mine can see him, but he cant see the layer, right, OK, awesome, thanks

But what about the wall scenario? Surely you cant lay it in base contact through the wall (or in the wall for that matter), so is this any different? Or is it just a similar scenario using a wall instead of a corner? Or something other than a mine? The more i type the more i think the wall one may have been talking about something else....

This scenario happens at the corner of a wall or a doorway or something of that nature.

Step 1: Move up to the corner of a wall out of LoS of something around the corner
Step 2: place the mine in BtB with your model but hanging around the corner to see your opponent
Step 3: Crackle manically as he gets no LoS ARO

For added fun

Step 4: Shoot the target with another model to trigger an ARO, if he does anything BOOM if he doesn't do anything then shooting fish in a barrel.

Remember though, if it's a camo marker that you are mining the mine in the area of effect of then you will need to preform an intuitive attack to place the mine.

Thanks BlueDagger, even more sneakiness can ensue with point 4....

Thanks for the heads up as well, but is that not only if it is in ARO? Would i not be able to lay a mine wherever i like in my active turn? Or am i getting that wrong?

apologies for the newbie questions, but...well, i am a newbie, and this is the thread for it

Deployable weapons (even Crazykoalas) can never be placed with a camo marker in their area of effect without preforming an Intuitive attack.

It's a balance thing mainly since mines will go off on camo markers if they are in range and do something.

Hmmm, so you either have to make the intuitive attack, or try and bottleneck the enemy camo marker to force them to move towards a mine previously placed?

That makes sense balance wise, a bit of a PITA if you think of it logically though (i mean, its a Camo marker, you wouldnt even know it was there, what would stop you placing a mine? Although in that tran of thought, why would you place one? so its 6 of one half a dozen of another in that case....i think ive convinced myself )

Oh, oh! Question!
What if you announce move with model A outside of model B's LoF, but inside ZoC? That allows them to Alert or Change Facing, right?
Now, what if you use your second order to move into LoF? That means model B can't shoot right, since it had already declared ARO. So you can basically avoid getting shot at with a move-move as long as the first move ends up outside of LoF, but inside of ZoC?

 The CF wrote:
Oh, oh! Question!
What if you announce move with model A outside of model B's LoF, but inside ZoC? That allows them to Alert or Change Facing, right?
Now, what if you use your second order to move into LoF? That means model B can't shoot right, since it had already declared ARO. So you can basically avoid getting shot at with a move-move as long as the first move ends up outside of LoF, but inside of ZoC?

If the model is in your ZoC and LoS is blocked by something, you can only Change Facing or use special skill that don't need LoS.

If the model is in your ZoC and LoS is not block, use any ARO. Just like if there in your 180% feild of vision. Leason, make sure you shot them in the back from 9in. away.

If you trigger a ZoC it is an optional ARO and you can wait to see if the model will get into LoF.

Please note: this is the opposite of how it was FAQed by CB, but please play it this way. Forced ZoC AROs breaks a Lot of situations and the issue has been brought to CB's attention for a correction.

We just realised yesterday that we weren't sure how template weapons work =P
My friend used a Muyib with Heavy Rocket Launcher and shot a guy relaxing with 2 other buddies. We positioned the circular template above him, also covering the other 2 guys. He rolled to hit and got a 1 and a 3. Is it a Face to Face roll ? So only the model targeted could try a dodge and both others would take 2 fire hit without any dodge as they have no LOF ? Is there any malus for the dodge roll ? I suppose it would have dispersed only if he had rolled above his BS skill ?

Also,

If a model moves, I ARO dodge, and then the active model moves again. Do I roll for the dodge or do I only freely get a dodge move ? If I need to roll, I just don't move if I fail my roll ?

If both players fail their WIP roll at the beginning, I suppose they just reroll ?

Thanks guys !

1. The 2 chillaxers wouldn't get a dodge, they didn't even see it coming! It would be a FtF roll between the Muyib and your guy (assuming he dodged) and if your roll beats his then no rocket is fired (he ducked out of LoS before the muyib could get a lock on!) Dispersion only occurs if BOTH parties fail their rolls.

nb. the 2 chillaxers WOULD get a dodge if they either have ss lvl2 or part of a 4 man link team (granitng ss lvl2) but the dodge would be at -6 due to being hit by a template.

2. We have always played that if you dodge and the other person doesn't shoot you still get a dodge move.

3. We play whoever is closest to their WIP target wins.

Oh so if the target dodged, my other trooper wouldn't have burned to death...good to know =P

Haha I had exactly the same thing happen actually. One of my guys made a crappy roll, then suddenly he and 2 guys near him were turned into smoking shoes by a simple Japanese line infantry with missile launcher

Hey guys, another question if anyone can help me re. close combat!

- A Haqq Ghulam uses a move order that takes him into base contact with a Fusilier.
- The Fusilier's ARO is to try and shoot the Ghulam.
- The 2nd part of the Ghulam order is to attack in CC.

Now then, this is where my query comes in. Rolling for combat, does:
A) The Fusilier get its ARO shot as a normal roll. If the Ghulam survives the shot, he can then attack the Fusilier by making a CC attack (again normal roll, not face-to-face) ?
B) The Fusilier's shot is taken as a face-to-face roll against the Ghulam's CC attack (i.e. both at the same time)?
C) Something else?

If anyone knows please help!

EDIT2: this is now proven wrong....partly by myself

Pretty sure its A. The Fusilier takes a shoot ARO (normal roll) as a result of the move, and then the ghulam gets a CC hit in (normal roll). This is why i imagine it is best to move into CC from where the Fusilier cant see you...

That conforms with what i know of CC and AROs, the Fusilier has to declare the ARO after the first move, which could be CC, and then the Ghulam declares shoot instead meaning the Fusilier is left standing there....

EDIT: hmmm, after reading this again (http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Charge) i see what you mean. the Shoot ARO could be a face-to-face roll against the CC attack...damn.

 Pacific wrote:
Hey guys, another question if anyone can help me re. close combat!

- A Haqq Ghulam uses a move order that takes him into base contact with a Fusilier.
- The Fusilier's ARO is to try and shoot the Ghulam.
- The 2nd part of the Ghulam order is to attack in CC.

Now then, this is where my query comes in. Rolling for combat, does:
A) The Fusilier get its ARO shot as a normal roll. If the Ghulam survives the shot, he can then attack the Fusilier by making a CC attack (again normal roll, not face-to-face) ?
B) The Fusilier's shot is taken as a face-to-face roll against the Ghulam's CC attack (i.e. both at the same time)?
C) Something else?

If anyone knows please help!

It is B, FtF roll. As you are both rolling to effect the others model. In general when the 2 models acting try to effect each other it is a FtF roll (dodge counts as your try to avoid the other model's shots). If one of the models dose something not to effect the other like a doctor healing a friend while getting shot at then it be a normal roll.

Ah yes thanks very much guys:

From the wiki that Revenent Reiko linked:

.Shoot (Or whatever Skill which allows performance of an attack before being engaged in CC like Hacking, Sepsitor…). In this case, both figures make a Face to Face roll, using the CC Attribute for the charger and BS for the defender (Or the appropriate Attribute). If the defender wins the roll, the charger must make an ARM Roll. If he succeeds, he will not need to make a Guts Roll, given that the miniatures are in base contact and they are in Close Combat. If the charger wins the roll the defender misses his shot, no matter how high his roll, and must make an ARM Roll.

I guess the key is not to end your turn within short movement distance of a CC specialist!

2 questions for you guys :

- I am laying down suppresive fire directly on a model. This model wants to dodge / shoot.
I think I just realised you don't move when you dodge in the active turn...right ?
Edit : Also just realised dodge and shoot are both short skills and can't be combined.

- Second question is regarding ZoC aro. I have a camoed unit coming in behind someone. When I enter his ZoC, can the unit ARO with shoot or as he doesn't have LoF he can only change facing ?

If you move into ZoC while camo'd and shoot - they get to react if they survive the attack (combat camo in active turn). Without LoF, they are restricted to non-LoF actions (like change facing or hack).

If they have sixth sense L2, then they get to react (combat camo is negated) in a f2f roll.

And change facing in reactive counts as a dodge, right? So if the unit wasn't camoed, they'd be doing ftf rolls?

I think you need LoF in order to dodge
So if you are changing facing, it's probably because you would like LoF =)

 The CF wrote:
And change facing in reactive counts as a dodge, right? So if the unit wasn't camoed, they'd be doing ftf rolls?

If his wasn't camoed and walking into a model ZoC from behind and here is nothing that could block LoF to each other, the ARO model can act with any normal ARO, including shoot.

And yes it be a FtF roll in this case.

Noir wrote:

 The CF wrote:
And change facing in reactive counts as a dodge, right? So if the unit wasn't camoed, they'd be doing ftf rolls?

If his wasn't camoed and walking into a model ZoC from behind and here is nothing that could block LoF to each other, the ARO model can act with any normal ARO, including shoot.

And yes it be a FtF roll in this case.

Including shoot? But.. but how? He doesn't have LoF if he enters ZoC from behind...

 The CF wrote:

Noir wrote:

 The CF wrote:
And change facing in reactive counts as a dodge, right? So if the unit wasn't camoed, they'd be doing ftf rolls?

If his wasn't camoed and walking into a model ZoC from behind and here is nothing that could block LoF to each other, the ARO model can act with any normal ARO, including shoot.

And yes it be a FtF roll in this case.

Including shoot? But.. but how? He doesn't have LoF if he enters ZoC from behind...

Becouse the rule say this...

If any enemy moves into or acts inside the Zone of Control but out
of the LoF of a figure, he is immediately able to react but only against
that enemy. If an enemy enters a Zone of Control but is behind an
obstacle that does not allow LoF to be drawn (For example a high
wall or the interior of a house) a miniature is only provided with an
Automatic Reaction Order to turn around and face his enemy.

Notice the bold part say behind obstacle, so there be no way to get LoF. It basically just reforcing the limited ARO choose allowed if you can't get LoF.