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Vaktathi, that was a well worded, well reasoned response, and I completely agree with you. I fear it may be lost on Anpu, though, as he seems less interested in a logical, reasonable discussion and more interested in self-aggrandizing for daring to play something the "Internet" says is sub-par. Should you ever make it down to Sacramento, CA I'll gladly play you a game with a full Tzeentch Thousand Sons army, and maybe even surprise you.

yup, so try a Tzeentch list that is well constructed and then have someone competnent play it against the Ig you're discussing and see what happens.

Personally, I don't play them, have faced them, have included them in my Chaos lists as accessories and they always do well at what I ask them to do. I've blown Thousand Sons off the table, literally, as well. I just didn't find this to be a function of the Thousand sons. The General was often the problem because this is more of a finesse/timing army.

And thats one of the problems with subjects like these. Skill plays a part. I could explain to you AS the game went along, what I was planning and where my mind is at, but here on a forum its difficult. I did write an extensive article on Tzeentch which I shared in the last thread and I can send it if you PM me. But I really just have to say that the Hyperbole surrounding this army build is kind of... disappointing really.

Creative types like this kind of puzzle though. So if you are a creative type, I'd start playing and testing til you find the combo that works.

 Vaktathi wrote:

This is largely it. While both are nice, they're drastically over-valued. AP3 is always costed at an over-premium, particularly on non-anti-tank weapons. This is not unique to Thousand Sons, pretty much any other unit with AP3 guns such as Vespid, Inquisitorial Henchmen w/Hot Shot Lasguns, and IG stormtroopers suffer this as well, so too did Dark Reapers until recently.

Yeah, I noticed same thing with Vespid and Sniper Drones...AP3 is problematic, because you end up paying premium and can't spam it like normal infantry fire, but it is only worth it when facing lots of Sv3+ and if you don't, your AP matters nothing. 8 times out of 10, it's better to have "normal" infantry weapons, because against most things they work just as well and are much cheaper. Same goes for 4++, sure it's great but again if you're not facing low-AP fire, it means nothing and you still end paying for it. Most of the time, marines die to torrent fire and against it, Thousand Sons die just like regular ones.

I play Thousand Sons (sort of). My army is usually built around Ahriman and two Thousand Son squads, with some cultists and daemon engines as back-up.

I do quite well. I enjoy assaulting with my Thousand Sons after softening the target up with rapid-firing bolters. Aspiring Sorcerers can cut through chaff like nobody's business. If I give her an axe, my Aspiring Champions even deal with Terminators. Sure, the army is small and expensive... but that just makes it more of a challenge to use.

The only thing I struggle against is non-Marines, because trying to chase down DEldar is a nightmare and Tau can do similar things.

Well Huron can fix some of those problems if you want to add a second HQ.