A funny bit about Whole Foods and Rich White People

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Frazzled**

I have special intolerance. I'm allergic to vegetables. I'm forced to eat burgers and Mexican food almost exclusively.

**Alfndrate**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I was thinking about this the other day, not Whole Foods or organic food in particular, just the modern ideas about gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance.

These certainly do exist as medical facts with scientific explanations, but OTOH wheat and milk have been core staples of the indo-European diet for thousands of years, so it is a bit surprising that these diseases have become common problems in the last few decades.

I assume that some third factor is involved. It has been suggested, for instance, that the modern growth of immune problems like nut allergy, is caused by the modern very clean lifestyle that does not allow infants' immune systems to be challenged and develop in a normal way.

I think some of it, though, is people wanting to have an interesting problem in their life. Like people who are allergic to WiFi.

There's an old Lewis Black joke about how we know nothing about health, he then asks the audience if milk is good for us and gets a variety of answers. The joke then goes on about how scientists in New Zealand have determined that kids are drinking too much milk. and then proceeds to say something about what kid somewhere is a milk junkie.

There was something I learned way back in my 7th grade science class that humans are one of a small group of animals that drinks milk beyond infancy, and that drink the milk of another animal, and that humans grow more intolerant to lactose as they age. Now I've seen older people drink milk well into their 90s (the oldest man I know who was 96 the last time I saw him) had a bowl of cereal with 2% milk every morning while he worked at camp.

Health is different for everyone

**streamdragon**

Frazzled wrote:
I have special intolerance. I'm allergic to vegetables. I'm forced to eat burgers and Mexican food almost exclusively.

*gasp* no chili relleno? I'm so, so sorry Frazz.

**Alfndrate**

streamdragon wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I have special intolerance. I'm allergic to vegetables. I'm forced to eat burgers and Mexican food almost exclusively.
*gasp* no chili relleno? I'm so, so sorry Frazz.

mmm I love me some chili relleno, but none of the mexican places around here do it right, it's the one thing my parents truly miss about living in New Mexico and Texas.

**Frazzled**

streamdragon wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I have special intolerance. I'm allergic to vegetables. I'm forced to eat burgers and Mexican food almost exclusively.
*gasp* no chili relleno? I'm so, so sorry Frazz.

I'm more of an enchiladas or carne asada guy

**Easy E**

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure their was a reason we pastuerize our milk now. Since we live twice as long as we did 150 years ago, I think society maybe onto something.

**Frazzled**

Easy E wrote:
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure their was a reason we pastuerize our milk now. Since we live twice as long as we did 150 years ago, I think society maybe onto something.

Easy E has the way of it.

**Dark Apostle 666**

But if you pasteurise it, you don't get all those scrumptious bacteria! (end sarcasm)

Honestly, there are some people who think anything a human has ever had any influence over instantly becomes deadly and evil. Sometimes we "meddle with nature" for a good reason!

And Wi-Fi allergies? I have to admire the cast iron 'nads of the guy who sold that one...

**Grey Templar**

Alfndrate wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
What's the point of even being in a discussion if you can't even handle criticism and if people are finding fallacies in your posts you might want to look as to why that might be the case as it means you're likely using faulty reasoning.

I've got little problem if someone says something along the lines of what Gray Templar said about gluten being a giant scapegoat for the entire thing and that my dad's health improvement can be attributed to a change in diet. What I have issue with is when someone just says, "this is a fallacy". That doesn't spur discussion that stunts it.

Grey Templar, while my dad's health has improved in other ways due to his dietary changes, my dad was on a strict regimented diet for several months in which his endocrinologist and his nutritionist did a battery of tests where they limited what he could eat for several weeks, and looked at his blood sugar and insulin use on a daily basis while he was limited to certain foods. During the time in which gluten (not just breads) were removed from his diet, they saw a decrease in insulin need as well as a lowering of his blood sugar highs. Gluten, being a protein, will raise anyone's blood sugar as it is, as that's how the body processes it and where goes after being processed (while the body is using it). Gluten in refined wheats (breads, pasta, starchy foods) tends to spike a diabetic's blood sugar needlessly and occasionally to dangerously high levels. While I'm not an expert on this subject, as one of my father's primary care givers (he's still independent, just a little lost without mom and I), I was there at all of his doctor's appointments and saw the test results and asked the doctors to explain these things to me so I knew what was going on. There was also a study done comparing a paleo diet to a Mediterranean-like diet. The largest difference between the two diets is the latter involves heavy reliance on unrefined grains (which tend to contain gluten). There wasn't a significant decrease for the diabetics on the paleo diet, but there was more of a decrease than with the Mediterranean-like diet. While it's not conclusive, it was something my dad and his doctors discussed as a way to help manage his diabetes, something he's been trying to keep under control for the past 49 years and has gotten worse in the past 5 to 6 years.

And Frazz, thanks yeah it's been cool seeing him slightly more active in the past year than I had since I started college.

Ok, maybe it did help.

I was really just pointing out that Gluten isn't the horrible thing health wackos claim it is, and most of the time any health benefits claimed to be associated with reducing it are really due to other changes in the diet and not specifically dropping the Gluten.

**mega_bassist**

Since the closest Whole Foods is about 35 miles from my house, I've never been to one...the article was amusing though. We do have a local "health" grocery called Green Earth. I've been there a couple of times, and it's pretty cool...it's pricey, but they have some stuff that other stores don't have. Plus, they have a little kitchen where you can order lunch/dinner, and they use all the ingredients they have in-stock at the store.

As for gluten-free, I think it's kind of silly *unless* you have an allergy to it (Or other legit health-related reasons. like Alf's post). A good friend of mine has a gluten-allergy (on top of being lactose intolerant), and the worse part was that it went undiagnosed for YEARS. He's doing much better now, but his diet is just restrictive...he just lives off energy drinks and meat

I just feel bad for him, since people normally bring food to our D&D sessions, and he can't eat most of it...

As for myself, I've cut red meats and dairy out of my regular diet, only eating on occasion. Between the healthier eating and being more active (walking to the store instead of driving, being involved in sports), I've lost almost 40 pounds. It's been great! Plus, the girlfriend went vegan after her galbladder was removed, so we've been focusing on making more healthier meals at home, and that's helped with the weight loss or better overall health.

**Ahtman**

Alfndrate wrote:
I've got little problem if someone says something along the lines of what Gray Templar said about gluten being a giant scapegoat for the entire thing and that my dad's health improvement can be attributed to a change in diet. What I have issue with is when someone just says, "this is a fallacy". That doesn't spur discussion that stunts it.

I know you can't see this since you took your ball and went home, but that is not at all what happened. I said what the others have said, that it was likely there were others issues involved beyond just using gluten free, I just also had the unmitigated gall, the temerity, to try and share my reasoning for coming to that conclusion i.e. that it was a certain type of reasoning problem that plagues us all from time to time.

**Spacemanvic**

Mathieu Raymond wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spacemanvic wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Yeah, I don't know how I got stuck on the homeopathy.

Alternative medicine can help, but it can also feth things up. Important thing is to always talk to your medical team.

Thats almost with anything though. My FIL went into the hospital due to complications with diabetes. Because of a foul up with two doctors who didnt look at his med records and both prescribing him meds that his records stated he should not take, he wound up in a coma and suffered organ failure before a nurse got involved and brought it to our attention, then we brought it to the family doctor who forwarded us to the patient advocate. By then it was too late, and we got to see him slowly and painfully die short of two weeks. Despite the family begging my MIL to sue the hospital to get their attention, she refused. This is a hospital with a reputation for shoddy care.

So yes, always talk with your medical team, always follow up, be actively involved and seek multiple approaches to a issue. We are lucky in that we have a doctor who is an MD as well as a homeopath.

Your anecdote does not discount the whole of modern medicine but speaks about two specific doctors. It does not allow anyone to draw any conclusion about anything else but those two doctors' competence.

I wasnt looking to discount modern medicine with my anecdote.

And the point I was making that you completely missed:

"So yes, always talk with your medical team, always follow up, be actively involved and seek multiple approaches to a issue.[u] "

**Cheesecat**

Corpsesarefun wrote:
Exchange of ideas need not be pedantic or hostile.

What' so hostile or pedantic about pointing out that someone's statement is based on faulty reasoning?

**Ensis Ferrae**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I was thinking about this the other day, not Whole Foods or organic food in particular, just the modern ideas about gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance.

These certainly do exist as medical facts with scientific explanations, but OTOH wheat and milk have been core staples of the indo-European diet for thousands of years, so it is a bit surprising that these diseases have become common problems in the last few decades.

I assume that some third factor is involved. It has been suggested, for instance, that the modern growth of immune problems like nut allergy, is caused by the modern very clean lifestyle that does not allow infants' immune systems to be challenged and develop in a normal way.

I think some of it, though, is people wanting to have an interesting problem in their life. Like people who are allergic to WiFi.

While I'm not a food chemical expert by any means, perhaps there are many different things that could be in your "third factor"

I agree with many of your theories, like the overly "clean" lifestyle. But what about things like GMO foods? or rBST (or whatever those 4 letters are in the bovine chemical for milk/cows)? The various dyes that Im *sure* went through a ton of government testing and the plethora of preservatives found in many food items that people in the US regularly get. Theres an article floating around on the interwebs that a friend of mine posted to her FB page about 10 different "food" items that were banned in other countries but are somewhat pushed here.

**Grey Templar**

rBST is the hormone for cattle that induces milk production. the R stands for recumbent(ie: artificially produced)

rBST is chemically identical to the "natural" BST, its just by law you have to refer to it as rBST.

The supposed worry over it is that it could do to a human what it does to a cow, but that is chemically impossible even if you directly injected a person with it. Human ST is not even close to the chemical structure of BST(B stands for Bovine). You could drink a bottle of it. It could actually be good for you, nearly pure protein!

Not to mention it would be nearly impossible to get any from the milk itself. Only a microscopic amount can actually pass from the cow into the milk(often its undetectable). Then pasteurization would take its toll. And finally, any that made its way into the human digestive tract would first be assaulted by stomach acid before being broken down by digestive enzymes.

The only possible health problems that could be associated with rBST are those suffered by the cows themselves(which is little to none)

Using rBST is really just a farmer supplementing the cow's natural hormone cycle to get a little more milk production. its never done in quantities that would cause harm, because that would reduce productivity in the long run. And Dairies are having enough problems as it is with staying afloat, they can't afford to sabotage their herds long term productivity.

Its similar to you getting some Steroids after a surgery to jump start the healing process. This one just makes them produce a little more milk for a little longer.

**sebster**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The article just seems like yet another subtle commentary inciting the class-war idea that everyone with more money than you is evil somehow.

No, it's mocking the corporatisation of feel good, middle class progressive values.

If you want to mock the disparity in income levels, you talk about the $1,000 hamburger with gold leaf on it. Making fun of Whole Foods is about mocking the middle class people that'll pay double the price for food when its got 'organic' on the label, despite not really knowing what organic actually means.

**Ensis Ferrae**

sebster wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The article just seems like yet another subtle commentary inciting the class-war idea that everyone with more money than you is evil somehow.

No, it's mocking the corporatisation of feel good, middle class progressive values.

If you want to mock the disparity in income levels, you talk about the $1,000 hamburger with gold leaf on it. Making fun of Whole Foods is about mocking the middle class people that'll pay double the price for food when its got 'organic' on the label, despite not really knowing what organic actually means.

Dont know how "organic" labels affect the price of your food Seb, but where I'm at, probably a good 80% of the food at my "local" whole foods is at the same price, or cheaper than the non-specialty grocers.

**Ahtman**

Where I am at normal Chiquita bananas are $0.59 a lb. whereas 'organic' labeled bananas are $1.39 a lb.

**Polonius**

sebster wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
The article just seems like yet another subtle commentary inciting the class-war idea that everyone with more money than you is evil somehow.

No, it's mocking the corporatisation of feel good, middle class progressive values.

If you want to mock the disparity in income levels, you talk about the $1,000 hamburger with gold leaf on it. Making fun of Whole Foods is about mocking the middle class people that'll pay double the price for food when its got 'organic' on the label, despite not really knowing what organic actually means.

to be fair, there was an aside about realizing that some people's dogs eat better than the author, which I suppose suggests some class awareness.

Although to some, class consciousness alone qualifies as "class warfare."

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My favorite (and only) experience at a whole foods was at a wine/chocolate tasting event with a girl I was trying to sleep with (and never completely did), a friend and his relatively new wife, and a mutual friend. We ended up getting pasta at the little cafe, and the mutual friend inadvertently let slip that we went to a strip club for my buddy's bachelor party. My buddy, in true sitcom style, had apparently lied about going prior to the wedding.

Watching newlyweds get in a fight at whole foods while trying to get some from a vegetarian is one of the whitest things I've ever done.

**Kilkrazy**

In the USA, some dogs have better healthcare than the author.

**Polonius**

Kilkrazy wrote:
In the USA, some dogs have better healthcare than the author.

Easy there, Trotsky!

**daedalus**

Kilkrazy wrote:
In the USA, some dogs have better healthcare than the author.

I've spent more on vet visits for my dog this year than I've spent in healthcare for myself.

If you count the amount I've paid into health insurance, I'm about $170 over the dog, YTD.

**Dreadclaw69**

Polonius wrote:
My favorite (and only) experience at a whole foods was at a wine/chocolate tasting event with a girl I was trying to sleep with (and never completely did), a friend and his relatively new wife, and a mutual friend. We ended up getting pasta at the little cafe, and the mutual friend inadvertently let slip that we went to a strip club for my buddy's bachelor party. My buddy, in true sitcom style, had apparently lied about going prior to the wedding.

Watching newlyweds get in a fight at whole foods while trying to get some from a vegetarian is one of the whitest things I've ever done.

That and posting about it in the Off Topic section of a wargames site

**PhantomViper**

Polonius wrote:

My favorite (and only) experience at a whole foods was at a wine/chocolate tasting event with a girl I was trying to sleep with (and never completely did), a friend and his relatively new wife, and a mutual friend. We ended up getting pasta at the little cafe, and the mutual friend inadvertently let slip that we went to a strip club for my buddy's bachelor party. My buddy, in true sitcom style, had apparently lied about going prior to the wedding.

Watching newlyweds get in a fight at whole foods while trying to get some from a vegetarian is one of the whitest things I've ever done.

What do you mean by "completely " in this sentence?

**Polonius**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Polonius wrote:
My favorite (and only) experience at a whole foods was at a wine/chocolate tasting event with a girl I was trying to sleep with (and never completely did), a friend and his relatively new wife, and a mutual friend. We ended up getting pasta at the little cafe, and the mutual friend inadvertently let slip that we went to a strip club for my buddy's bachelor party. My buddy, in true sitcom style, had apparently lied about going prior to the wedding.

Watching newlyweds get in a fight at whole foods while trying to get some from a vegetarian is one of the whitest things I've ever done.

That and posting about it in the Off Topic section of a wargames site

I'm a second generation Federal employee with an advanced degree, a sensible sedan, and a blonde girlfriend. I love indie rock, artisan cheese, and craft beer. I embrace my whiteness.

**PhantomViper**

You know what? Never mind, I'm too afraid to know the answer so please ignore my previous post!

**Polonius**

PhantomViper wrote:
Polonius wrote:

My favorite (and only) experience at a whole foods was at a wine/chocolate tasting event with a girl I was trying to sleep with (and never completely did), a friend and his relatively new wife, and a mutual friend. We ended up getting pasta at the little cafe, and the mutual friend inadvertently let slip that we went to a strip club for my buddy's bachelor party. My buddy, in true sitcom style, had apparently lied about going prior to the wedding.

Watching newlyweds get in a fight at whole foods while trying to get some from a vegetarian is one of the whitest things I've ever done.

What do you mean by "completely " in this sentence?

Due to the family friendly nature of this site, I really can't get into details. Use your imagination!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:
You know what? Never mind, I'm too afraid to know the answer so please ignore my previous post!

To be fair, the whole story involves a banana and Gold Bond Medicated powder.

**sebster**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Dont know how "organic" labels affect the price of your food Seb, but where I'm at, probably a good 80% of the food at my "local" whole foods is at the same price, or cheaper than the non-specialty grocers.

Organic labels are a premium pricing strategy. It's one of the more famous bits of food marketing of the last few decades. That 'organic' can considerably increase the price of a food item despite the term having no real meaning in most places is kind of famos.

But I'm not really all that interested in arguing about a nitpick in my original post. Pretend that throwaway line wasn't there if you want, and put in something about superfoods or some other piece of food nonsense if you want.

**Dreadclaw69**

Polonius wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Polonius wrote:
My favorite (and only) experience at a whole foods was at a wine/chocolate tasting event with a girl I was trying to sleep with (and never completely did), a friend and his relatively new wife, and a mutual friend. We ended up getting pasta at the little cafe, and the mutual friend inadvertently let slip that we went to a strip club for my buddy's bachelor party. My buddy, in true sitcom style, had apparently lied about going prior to the wedding.

Watching newlyweds get in a fight at whole foods while trying to get some from a vegetarian is one of the whitest things I've ever done.

That and posting about it in the Off Topic section of a wargames site

I'm a second generation Federal employee with an advanced degree, a sensible sedan, and a blonde girlfriend. I love indie rock, artisan cheese, and craft beer. I embrace my whiteness.

I'm white and Irish, so I practically glow in the dark

**Ahtman**

Polonius wrote:
Use your imagination!

NEVER!