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 Happyjew wrote:

 necrondog99 wrote:
I was taught in the military that if you are not cheating you are not trying. Since 40K is my most apathetic game, I don't try, and I don't cheat. But I do wonder about those serious players who don't cheat. I wonder if they are really trying... perhaps leading to a lackluster performance on their part. I try really hard to be drunk by turn four, which leads to all sorts of accidental cheating, wobbly dice, missing dice, and missing time. By turn six you can declare victory and I will probably let you. If I am drinking coffee and not whiskey you should be wary, I am probably going to trounce you painfully.

- J

If my opponent and I are not drunk by Turn 2, we are doing it wrong.

Which is the REAL thing the military teaches you.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 necrondog99 wrote:
I was taught in the military that if you are not cheating you are not trying. Since 40K is my most apathetic game, I don't try, and I don't cheat. But I do wonder about those serious players who don't cheat. I wonder if they are really trying... perhaps leading to a lackluster performance on their part. I try really hard to be drunk by turn four, which leads to all sorts of accidental cheating, wobbly dice, missing dice, and missing time. By turn six you can declare victory and I will probably let you. If I am drinking coffee and not whiskey you should be wary, I am probably going to trounce you painfully.

- J

If my opponent and I are not drunk by Turn 2, we are doing it wrong.

Which is the REAL thing the military teaches you.

But this is a game no?

 Kiwi461 wrote:
Utilizing models I had from the second edition starter box and playing in early-ish 3rd edition against a kid the next street over. I had guys bbehind a wall that he shot with a grav tank utilizing a Crystal Targeting Matrix. I told him he couldn't possibly do that because he didn't have line of sight. I was then informed that the laser can arch around terrain so he could still shoot it. There was a small argument about how lasers couldn't arch. Pretty sure I lost the game and I never played the kid again. To this day, the Cyrstal Targeting Matrix is an on going joke between me and a buddy of mine.

Well, you actually can arch a laser... Sorta.

It just takes something that can bend light. Like that real-life cloaking device or a powerful enough gravity well. But if a gravity well that strong were on a WH40k tabletop, you'd have much, MUCH bigger problems than a grav tank.

As for me, well...

My mom and I were playing a game, and we were using some sort of modified, made-up-right-before-the-game building rules in 5th edition. It was my first game with the WD Sisters dex.

My mom stuck her Chapter Master, his 8 or 9 Honor Guard, and a Tactical Squad in that building. I charged into it with my Uriah, a Battle Conclave with 6 DCAs and 4 Crusaders, and a maxed out unit of Repentia.

We were curious how this would work, so I went looking in the rulebook to see how charging into an occupied building would work. I looked up the part about charging into cover, and it said that if the charging unit "has to take a difficult terrain check while charging" then the penalty applies.

So by the letter of that rule, but not taking the spirit of it and applying it to a made-up situation, well... The Chapter Master suffered some significant overkill after having to roll at least 16-17 No Retreat wounds...

Edit: Also, a couple of times I've brought extra stuff by accident.

Once, I set a number of models aside for some reason, and when my mom and I played our next game, I must've assumed they were part of my army - which I also put there.

Another time, I'm pretty sure I brought my 1250 point list, thinking it was a 1250 point game, when my mom brought only 1000 points. It wasn't on purpose, I was just misremembering what we'd agreed on several days to a week prior.

Uh... do stupid glittering generalities like "if youre not cheating youre not trying" actually gain traction in the mibds of.... anyone? That aside,being of good cheer during games is good.

 Jancoran wrote:
Uh... do stupid glittering generalities like "if youre not cheating youre not trying" actually gain traction in the mibds of.... anyone? That aside,being of good cheer during games is good.

Not with most people. My mantra was instead "work smarter, not harder", but I can't speak for everyone. I did meet some really idiotic people during my time in.

Lots of people add inches. Just the kids are so damn annoying! I'm a kid too but I actually learn the rules and can paint and play better than most people. So usually I just don't play them and stick with my buds.
Like sometimes when I play with Kids I know there army better than them and I only play marines and Eldar

I was playing a guy who said the ultramarine chapter tactic for tactical squads let him re-roll miss hits and he could use it every turn. Even after I told him he could only use it once per game once per game he kept using it

sangheili wrote:
I was playing a guy who said the ultramarine chapter tactic for tactical squads let him re-roll miss hits and he could use it every turn. Even after I told him he could only use it once per game once per game he kept using it

So he was either a cheat or an idiot....?

sangheili wrote:
I was playing a guy who said the ultramarine chapter tactic for tactical squads let him re-roll miss hits and he could use it every turn. Even after I told him he could only use it once per game once per game he kept using it

Did he have Calgar? His abilities let you do that iirc

 RunningWithScissors49 wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I was playing a guy who said the ultramarine chapter tactic for tactical squads let him re-roll miss hits and he could use it every turn. Even after I told him he could only use it once per game once per game he kept using it

Did he have Calgar? His abilities let you do that iirc

He lets you use one a second time, not as many times as you want.

Happyjew wrote:

 necrondog99 wrote:
I was taught in the military that if you are not cheating you are not trying. Since 40K is my most apathetic game, I don't try, and I don't cheat. But I do wonder about those serious players who don't cheat. I wonder if they are really trying... perhaps leading to a lackluster performance on their part. I try really hard to be drunk by turn four, which leads to all sorts of accidental cheating, wobbly dice, missing dice, and missing time. By turn six you can declare victory and I will probably let you. If I am drinking coffee and not whiskey you should be wary, I am probably going to trounce you painfully.

- J

If my opponent and I are not drunk by Turn 2, we are doing it wrong.

And now we know how happyjew can bear to keep staring at that dang Ork cheerleader...

She's cute, though the Goblin ones are cuter

 Happyjew wrote:
She's cute, though the Goblin ones are cuter

don't you dare

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
She's cute, though the Goblin ones are cuter

don't you dare

Who? Me? [/innocent face]

The one that took the biscuit was when I was told my HQ unit was beaten in CC by a Basilisk Tank and had to flee, only for the rest of the squad to be destroyed by a 'lucky shot' from the Basilisks Howitzer, Tank Shock not being mentioned once,

there is a guy at my FLGS who:

1. plays dark eldar, yet insists (incorrectly) that they worship slaanesh (first game i played with him he claimed his wyches and incubi +1 Initiative from mark of slaanesh!) despite the fact that the codex and all other sources maintain that the dark eldar despise slaanesh and chaos.

2. raider rushes EVERYTHING (including his Talos, which he put in a venom!)

3. measures in with a laser pointer

4. has ork shoota boy allie. and rolls all of his dice one at a time

5. claimed that a imperial guard mortor team could not shoot at his archon because a low wall was blocking line of sight

6. claimed that the barrage rule did not exist and that a single wound from a poisoned weapon would still automatically kill a multi-wound model.

7. claimed that naming and/or renaming units ( ie. refering to your tactical squad sergeant by name or using the rules of typhus to represent a homebrewed leader for fluff reasons) was both against the rules and was sighn of being TFG

8. got tabled by a SOB army, afterwich he immediatly claimed that SOB were cheesy and had unfair rules and that anybody who played them was a min/maxing power gamer who had to cheat to win

end rant

 OnlyWar wrote:
there is a guy at my FLGS who:

1. plays dark eldar, yet insists (incorrectly) that they worship slaanesh (first game i played with him he claimed his wyches and incubi +1 Initiative from mark of slaanesh!) despite the fact that the codex and all other sources maintain that the dark eldar despise slaanesh and chaos.

They still go around in the Galaxy inflicting pain(ful pleasure) in the most slanneshy ways possible, ultimately furthering Slannesh's power.

A Noise Marine might to it willingly, indulging in his own depravity and hunger for power (selling his soul to Slannesh in the end), where a Dark Eldar does it "against his own will", trying to stave of Slannesh consuming his soul, and hating She-Who-Thirsts through the entire process (till his soul is claimed by Slannesh in the end nonetheless).

But it's still doing Slannesh's work at the end of the day, whether you hate him/her or praise him/her for it.

by that logic tyranids should all have mark of tzeentch (what with thier drive to change and evolve)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and orks mark of khorne

 OnlyWar wrote:
by that logic tyranids should all have mark of tzeentch (what with thier drive to change and evolve)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and orks mark of khorne

Plenty of Khorne-Orks in old-school fluff.

Nid's probably would, if they'd ever actually managed to change anything

Ok, Nids not. Because Tzeentch isn't just any change. He's change through ambition, plotting, conspiracy, etc..

But turn it around? Can you only be "serving" Chaos if you do it knowingly and willingly? If that is the case, Abaddon is not serving Chaos (he thinks he is smarter than the Chaos Gods and using them to his end). Ahriman would not be a Tzeentch sorcerer (he rebelled against his Primarch for that reason, trying to "save" his Legion from Chaos after all). Etc, ....

The whole point of Chaos "temptation" is that you can get sucked/tricked/tempted into it against your own will or better judgement.

now that i think about it , you are correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
that being said, read the rest of my rant and you will see that he is without a dought still TFG.

When 6th first came out I played an IG player who claimed that flyers could move 72" per turn, turn on a dime and you had to re-roll all successful to hit rolls against them. At the time I was running the old Chaos 'dex prior to Drakes and flakk missiles. I didn't even get a single rhino near the objective.

A 6'+ built like an ox guy full of tattoos, wild long hair who uses all of the above combined with a bad attitude to bully, intimidat and outright threaten opponents to let him cheat however he wants. He has actually threatened physical violence in a tournament to another player to intimidate them into throwing a game.
when he comes up against someone who calls him on it and refuses to let him do whatever he likes, he gets mad and ends the game right there.

Following that, i see the magically telescoping take measure all the time. You know what I mean, a model that is 8 inches away from an objective on the last turn ofthe game after the moement phase, rolls a 2 for funning and somehow ends his run 1 inch from the objective. The models that move from front of base to back of base also.

In a shop in MD, i saw a guy who would purposely roll his dice at and onto other models and rough terrain to get a many leaners as he could and the ones with low numbers saying "cocked" and rerolling them, while the leaners showing high numbers, keeping them as they were.

I really do not get "cocked" dice. In almost every single situation, you can tell by the way it is leaning which side it was going to come to rest on if the obstruction didn't exist. If the die is sitting on a 45 degree angle, my buddy and I always count the side that was going to be "up" for good or bad. Same thing with "Floor" dice. There is no reason why a "5" roll on the floor is different from a "5" on the table, unless your opponent doesn't trust you (in which case why are you playing an opponent like that in a "game".)

I have counted dice that somehow landed up into the back of an Ork trukk, before. And while I can;t remember the number, knowing me and my notorious rolling, it was probably low and not what I needed, lol.

Not going to lie, back when I first started playing sometimes i would take 50-100 "extra" points without mentioning it.

That said, whenever I did that I ended up doing horribly in that game, and when I played fair I ended up doing much better. So I figure that some kind of cosmic justice was in play and stopped doing it after a few games.

 OnlyWar wrote:
there is a guy at my FLGS who:

1. plays dark eldar, yet insists (incorrectly) that they worship slaanesh (first game i played with him he claimed his wyches and incubi +1 Initiative from mark of slaanesh!) despite the fact that the codex and all other sources maintain that the dark eldar despise slaanesh and chaos.

2. raider rushes EVERYTHING (including his Talos, which he put in a venom!)

3. measures in with a laser pointer

4. has ork shoota boy allie. and rolls all of his dice one at a time

5. claimed that a imperial guard mortor team could not shoot at his archon because a low wall was blocking line of sight

6. claimed that the barrage rule did not exist and that a single wound from a poisoned weapon would still automatically kill a multi-wound model.

7. claimed that naming and/or renaming units ( ie. refering to your tactical squad sergeant by name or using the rules of typhus to represent a homebrewed leader for fluff reasons) was both against the rules and was sighn of being TFG

8. got tabled by a SOB army, afterwich he immediatly claimed that SOB were cheesy and had unfair rules and that anybody who played them was a min/maxing power gamer who had to cheat to win

end rant

Dayam. And does he...read? Maybe a little Index searching might help him. Hehehe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I really do not get "cocked" dice. In almost every single situation, you can tell by the way it is leaning which side it was going to come to rest on if the obstruction didn't exist. If the die is sitting on a 45 degree angle, my buddy and I always count the side that was going to be "up" for good or bad. Same thing with "Floor" dice. There is no reason why a "5" roll on the floor is different from a "5" on the table, unless your opponent doesn't trust you (in which case why are you playing an opponent like that in a "game".)

I have counted dice that somehow landed up into the back of an Ork trukk, before. And while I can;t remember the number, knowing me and my notorious rolling, it was probably low and not what I needed, lol.

I think that as long as you are CONSISTENT in how you do your dice (re-roll everything that isn't flat OR DONT reroll anything that is askew etc...) then no problem. certain playing surfaces do make a legit argument for being cokced or not difficult and so all I ever ask for and offer is consistency. I personally roll anything not flat, for better or worse.

I used to play my Tyranids with Toxin sacs which gave poison in shooting as well. I honestly didn't realize I when I was doing it that I was wrong, but it still robbed my opponent anyways and I feel bad for it. Personally this doesn't classify as cheating to me since it was something I believed to be true and my opponents never called me on it so I just carried on with the same thought. I never intentionally altered the rules to improve my army, it was just a case of misread rules.

My group never has outright cheaters but we do have the occasional case of misread rules which as soon as we realize our screw up we try to tell our opponent and apologize. We also practice the mulligan principle frequently. Often I would rather play an army at full potential then my opponent make a stupid mistake and it swing in my favor. That being said a mulligan in the first couple turns is more likely to be awarded then one in the last couple if the game is close. I get pretty competitive at times and if its turn 5 and you forget your very important psychic powers in a nail--biter of a game, I'm not gonna be an a** about it but that might not a second chance situation. If I was playing in a serious tournament though, I wouldn't expect that sort of quarter and would be hard pressed to give it.

Im thankful I havn't seen really bad cheaters.

But there was one kid...
younger then all of the regulars he had Space Marines.
several times he would make up rules "because they were Space Marines" (and they can't lose), but it got worse from there
In the few times I played him. the first 2 involved the "Space Marine rules" but even with his "Mary Sue Rules" my heavy weight tank firepower manages to reduce his force by the handful, quickly he begins the "quick snatch" dice rolls. i.e rolls dice and a fraction of a second when they stop moving he snatches them up often claiming a different number then they actually were. Once I was experimenting with orks for a battle, and the audience we had (2 or so other people) and myself confronted him on multiple 1 rolls ("we all saw it dude, you rolled ones). I can't remember what the roll was for but I think they was important.

he had several of the desperation cheats... rolling into obscured locations (that his opponent couldn't see), dice snatching, claiming cover from the weirdest things (he once tried to claim cover from a subway sandwich he was eating that he would slowly move across the map, im not kidding)



List of "Space Marine Rules" I can remember

Space Marine shoots a Leman russ tank with his bolter (AT THE FRONT) and he rolls a 5 (out of no where) and suddenly claims that the space marine hit the crew through the hatchs..... (did not allow it)

Terminator misses his armor saves against a barrage of lasguns. He argues for invulnerable saves, I let him try it but even then those fail. He rolls a third time after that and makes it and begins to rant about Terminators can't be killed by lasguns cause of X mary sue reason. to humor him they remain alive only to receive a beat down from 5 plasma blasts from my Executioner tank and die once and for all, he began to cry at this point.

Predator tank fires auto cannon at the front of a LR. He suddenly belives the "superior marksmanship of space marines" allows him to increase the ST or auto pen my tank by doing crazy things like shooting down the tank barrel or other he failed to do any damage (I didn't let him do it). To silence him I shot the predator with a Vanquisher cannon, and he began going on how IG can't hit the predator tank at range (the vanquisher was a good distance away) since they "are not space marines" and "can't aim". rerolled To Hit, still hit, Vanquisher penned and exploded the tank. Even after the predator was dead and gone he continued to rant about how SM was better then IG in X ways, even after I tabled him.



the list goes on but it was a long time ago, he has long since been banned from the store, for cheating an 40k and MAGIC.

OnlyWar wrote:
there is a guy at my FLGS who:

1. plays dark eldar, yet insists (incorrectly) that they worship slaanesh (first game i played with him he claimed his wyches and incubi +1 Initiative from mark of slaanesh!) despite the fact that the codex and all other sources maintain that the dark eldar despise slaanesh and chaos.

2. raider rushes EVERYTHING (including his Talos, which he put in a venom!)

3. measures in with a laser pointer

4. has ork shoota boy allie. and rolls all of his dice one at a time

5. claimed that a imperial guard mortor team could not shoot at his archon because a low wall was blocking line of sight

6. claimed that the barrage rule did not exist and that a single wound from a poisoned weapon would still automatically kill a multi-wound model.

7. claimed that naming and/or renaming units ( ie. refering to your tactical squad sergeant by name or using the rules of typhus to represent a homebrewed leader for fluff reasons) was both against the rules and was sighn of being TFG

8. got tabled by a SOB army, afterwich he immediatly claimed that SOB were cheesy and had unfair rules and that anybody who played them was a min/maxing power gamer who had to cheat to win

end rant



Dayam. And does he...read? Maybe a little Index searching might help him. Hehehe.

sadly, no, according to him, not only is it against the rules to get tactical advice from non-GW sources, but he also is of the opinion that the people on dakka dakka are all either noobs or TFG

 Zweischneid wrote:


Ok, Nids not. Because Tzeentch isn't just any change. He's change through ambition, plotting, conspiracy, etc..

But turn it around? Can you only be "serving" Chaos if you do it knowingly and willingly? If that is the case, Abaddon is not serving Chaos (he thinks he is smarter than the Chaos Gods and using them to his end). Ahriman would not be a Tzeentch sorcerer (he rebelled against his Primarch for that reason, trying to "save" his Legion from Chaos after all). Etc, ....

The whole point of Chaos "temptation" is that you can get sucked/tricked/tempted into it against your own will or better judgement.

Tzeentch is literally "Change for the sake of Change", so no, it's not just "change through plotting, etc". It can be change for better or worse, but if it was just deliberate change, he wouldn't take such pleasure in throwing spanners in the works.

_________________________________

OnlyWar, I think Janoran meant searching the index of the rulebook.

Worst one for me was during 2nd edition, when there were all these cards and counters and things. I played Eldar and he played Ultramarines. I had trouble enough as it was but he conveniently lost his codex (not sure he ever owned one) and said all his units were half the points cost because of a special wargear card he lost.