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 Alfndrate wrote:
It's not really cherry picking... Look at a similarly sized box for Warmachine (say Khador Winter Guard for the makings of the WGDS). It's a 10 model box for 50 bucks. The reductors may be an elite unit you can only have one of in your army, but ten 30mm based models from PP are generally 50USD for the box. 10 Space Marines are 40. It's not that big of a different, but you far more than just those 40 dollar space marines to make a 40k army.

Of course its cherry picking, because 10 space marines are only cheaper in one specific circumstance, a tactical squad.

If you want sternguard veterans 10 would cost you £60.

Vanguards Veterans would cost you £50

Death Company, Assault squad, sanguinary guard, devastators, £41 for 10.

Which as I said its nonsense, you can pick certain units from any game to make a point about pricing either way, but I can get started in warmachine -with models- for less than the rules for my blood angels.

I got started in Infinity for exactly £27, a panoceania starter box, enough models for decent games and free rules.

I spent £45 just to update the rules for a game I've been playing since second edition. I love 40K, I have huge numbers of models, a forgeworld Baneblade, I've spent fortunes with them. But their games are simply a lot more expensive to play than anything else out there. Its churlish to pretend otherwise.

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
It's not really cherry picking... Look at a similarly sized box for Warmachine (say Khador Winter Guard for the makings of the WGDS). It's a 10 model box for 50 bucks. The reductors may be an elite unit you can only have one of in your army, but ten 30mm based models from PP are generally 50USD for the box. 10 Space Marines are 40. It's not that big of a different, but you far more than just those 40 dollar space marines to make a 40k army.

Of course its cherry picking, because 10 space marines are only cheaper in one specific circumstance, a tactical squad.

Calm your tits there big guy, the reason why I said it wasn't cherry picking is because he used a 10 man box vs a 10 man box. You are getting roughly the same amount of models and bits. For you as a Brit, 21.00GBP for a box and 34.25GBP for a box is a significant difference, convert that to USD and it's not that big of a difference, both boxes cost within 10 dollars of each other. And as I pointed out, all of Privateer Presses 30mm based plastic infantry are all roughly $50USD. There are I think maybe 2 outliers, but for the most part 50 dollars for 10 models. Or 40 dollars for 10 models. That's not that messed up when compared to each other, that's why it's not cherry picking, and that's also why I suggested the Khador Winter Guard because they're a basic trooper model just like the tactical squad. Although I was looking at the 10 man Rifleman squad which is 50 dollars, the 10 man Winter Guard & Rocket Troopers is 13 models for 50 bucks (mah bad).

If you want sternguard veterans 10 would cost you £60.

Vanguards Veterans would cost you £50

Death Company, Assault squad, sanguinary guard, devastators, £41 for 10.

I'm well aware of the pricing disparity, I play every game that ever gets mentioned in these threads, I'm pretty hip to the pricing of the games, the reason why I'm defending that posters comparison is because on the basic level it's just a box of 10 guys vs a box of 10 guys. Which is going to get into the crux of the Warmachine is cheaper than 40k argument that everyone that hasn't been in these threads more than once (or choose to ignore it) below.

Which as I said its nonsense, you can pick certain units from any game to make a point about pricing either way, but I can get started in warmachine -with models- for less than the rules for my blood angels.

I got started in Infinity for exactly £27, a panoceania starter box, enough models for decent games and free rules.

I spent £45 just to update the rules for a game I've been playing since second edition. I love 40K, I have huge numbers of models, a forgeworld Baneblade, I've spent fortunes with them. But their games are simply a lot more expensive to play than anything else out there. Its churlish to pretend otherwise.

That's because 40k and Warmachine are two different scales. Warmachine is a skirmish sized game, it features a single general and their retinue vs another general and their retinue, there are no transports, no columns of tanks. 40k likes to market itself as an army sized game, and so to put a full sized army of Warmachine and Hordes on the board takes significantly less models (and by extension less money) than it does to put out a full sized 40k army. And here is the argument that everyone makes that 40k is more expensive than Warmachine. But on a model by model basis, it's really not more expensive, the reason why it's more expensive is because 40k tries to be a mass army battle in the skirmish scale. You are putting 40+ models on the table including vehicles, flyers, massive monsters, etc... But on a model by model base both Privateer Press and Games Workshop's models are priced roughly the same. Once you get past that, you begin to realize that the game sizes are what makes 40k expensive. As someone said, I believe in this thread, that the Red Shirts at GW will sell the game as being cheap because you can just play small 200-500 point games, but no one wants to play those. It's like playing with just the Warmachine Starter boxes. Yes, you have a full, legal army, but the average player players at 35-50 points because those are what the average game sizes are and that's what everyone else plays. And I should know, I have just as much money dumped into Warmachine/Hordes as I do into 40k, and guess what I have roughly the same number of models between the two of them...

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
It's not really cherry picking... Look at a similarly sized box for Warmachine (say Khador Winter Guard for the makings of the WGDS). It's a 10 model box for 50 bucks. The reductors may be an elite unit you can only have one of in your army, but ten 30mm based models from PP are generally 50USD for the box. 10 Space Marines are 40. It's not that big of a different, but you far more than just those 40 dollar space marines to make a 40k army.

Of course its cherry picking, because 10 space marines are only cheaper in one specific circumstance, a tactical squad.

If you want sternguard veterans 10 would cost you £60.

Vanguards Veterans would cost you £50

Death Company, Assault squad, sanguinary guard, devastators, £41 for 10.

Which as I said its nonsense, you can pick certain units from any game to make a point about pricing either way, but I can get started in warmachine -with models- for less than the rules for my blood angels.

I got started in Infinity for exactly £27, a panoceania starter box, enough models for decent games and free rules.

I spent £45 just to update the rules for a game I've been playing since second edition. I love 40K, I have huge numbers of models, a forgeworld Baneblade, I've spent fortunes with them. But their games are simply a lot more expensive to play than anything else out there. Its churlish to pretend otherwise.

Well my thinking is being a painter/modeller first and a gamer second then there's not a lot in the prices. As I have stated before I don't care what the sculpt medium is as long as it's a nice mini. So from what I can read between the lines here is it's not the fact that GW minis are expensive when compared to other companies that just doesn't hold much... It's the fact that you need many more of them to make your games worthwhile.

 Alfndrate wrote:
It's not really cherry picking... Look at a similarly sized box for Warmachine (say Khador Winter Guard for the makings of the WGDS). It's a 10 model box for 50 bucks. The reductors may be an elite unit you can only have one of in your army, but ten 30mm based models from PP are generally 50USD for the box. 10 Space Marines are 40. It's not that big of a different, but you far more than just those 40 dollar space marines to make a 40k army.

The Winter Guard box has 13 models in it, just FYI.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
It's not really cherry picking... Look at a similarly sized box for Warmachine (say Khador Winter Guard for the makings of the WGDS). It's a 10 model box for 50 bucks. The reductors may be an elite unit you can only have one of in your army, but ten 30mm based models from PP are generally 50USD for the box. 10 Space Marines are 40. It's not that big of a different, but you far more than just those 40 dollar space marines to make a 40k army.

The Winter Guard box has 13 models in it, just FYI.

Thanks for reading! I did correct myself later when I said (in the same post even!)

Alfndrate wrote:Although I was looking at the 10 man Rifleman squad which is 50 dollars, the 10 man Winter Guard & Rocket Troopers is 13 models for 50 bucks (mah bad)

 Flippa wrote:


Well my thinking is being a painter/modeller first and a gamer second then there's not a lot in the prices. As I have stated before I don't care what the sculpt medium is as long as it's a nice mini. So from what I can read between the lines here is it's not the fact that GW minis are expensive when compared to other companies that just doesn't hold much... It's the fact that you need many more of them to make your games worthwhile.

GW's mini's, on an individual basis are more expensive than mini's from most other companies like for like, with the exception of Privateer Press where the prices are on par (or worse in the UK).

You can get historic/fantasy/sci-fi mini's from other Nottingham companies for less than GW's, though they might lack some of the visual impact of the bigger GW kits.

PP are bloody expensive, but you get better rules and more utility out of your pieces because of the way things are organised. But the models are bloody pricey and you get less variation in worse materials than with GW.

Mantic started well but I'm still waiting for them to hit their potential. Mierce have some great stuff but don't do anything "small".

To be honest, the real value these days is in Historical plastics.

What prevents me from buying GW most of the time these days is the OTT style of the miniatures. I prefer something a bit more understated.

 Da Boss wrote:
To be honest, the real value these days is in Historical plastics.

Absolutely 100% correct! I never thought I'd get into historicals but the deals are too good and the games are too fun not to.

 azreal13 wrote:
Lol!

Like clockwork, another poster starts a thread about the insanity that is GW pricing!

Why do you need to go dragging me into this?


Sorry, I saw the opportunity for a bad joke and had to take it. I'll go put on the hat of shame now.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Lol!

Like clockwork, another poster starts a thread about the insanity that is GW pricing!

Why do you need to go dragging me into this?


Sorry, I saw the opportunity for a bad joke and had to take it. I'll go put on the hat of shame now.

Booo!
Hiss!
(Buy him a drink!)

The Auld Grump

This 1st post of mine should be a memorable one, considering its in a "GW Prices Are So High!" thread, and considering the standard reply of "post less" will be said below. I believe the first repliers owe the OP an apology.

A few GW products were on my X-Mas List as gift ideas for myself and others. After being prompted by an e-mail flyer to "Check out the holiday deals", I did go, only to find the price of everything has been raised a good deal.

Most battalion boxes up an additional $50-$80. Island of Blood was raised 65% from $100 to $165. Hell the core rulebook is up a good 100% to $124.

I'd like to not have to rant, rave, bitch and moan, so I'll come to the finale: Not a single GW product is on my List. I'd wish GW best of luck on selling product, but I reckon they should learn basic economics.

SuperHappyTime wrote:
This 1st post of mine should be a memorable one, considering its in a "GW Prices Are So High!" thread, and considering the standard reply of "post less" will be said below. I believe the first repliers owe the OP an apology.

A few GW products were on my X-Mas List as gift ideas for myself and others. After being prompted by an e-mail flyer to "Check out the holiday deals", I did go, only to find the price of everything has been raised a good deal.

Most battalion boxes up an additional $50-$80. Island of Blood was raised 65% from $100 to $165. Hell the core rulebook is up a good 100% to $124.

I'd like to not have to rant, rave, bitch and moan, so I'll come to the finale: Not a single GW product is on my List. I'd wish GW best of luck on selling product, but I reckon they should learn basic economics.

Alright, everybody: reset those clocks!

SuperHappyTime wrote:
This 1st post of mine should be a memorable one, considering its in a "GW Prices Are So High!" thread, and considering the standard reply of "post less" will be said below. I believe the first repliers owe the OP an apology.

A few GW products were on my X-Mas List as gift ideas for myself and others. After being prompted by an e-mail flyer to "Check out the holiday deals", I did go, only to find the price of everything has been raised a good deal.

Most battalion boxes up an additional $50-$80. Island of Blood was raised 65% from $100 to $165. Hell the core rulebook is up a good 100% to $124.

I'd like to not have to rant, rave, bitch and moan, so I'll come to the finale: Not a single GW product is on my List. I'd wish GW best of luck on selling product, but I reckon they should learn basic economics.

Go back, look at the bottom of the page, and change the little flag back to US. You're looking at Australian prices.

Don't worry, plenty of first time posters have done this. You won't get too hard a time over it.

Maybe.

And the price difference is due to minimum wage.

Because even homeless people drive Bentleys because we're all super rich from the mining boom. They just cant afford our super expensive houses (partially true).

Strange my wargames factory shock troopers and/or WWII Russians have more troops and are cheaper, off course they are not made by Bugatti that is GW

I'd advise people who find GW prices to be too expensive to not buy GW products. Until that occurs, you're just the addict telling his drug dealer that crack's too expensive.

Their prices are whatever they think they can get you to pay for them. As long as the people with controlling interests are happy, they don't care that you're not.

I'm not going to post much, as i feel it's a useless debate, and this isn;t the right place for it. However, i dug up my collectors guide from 2003ish and was shocked.

This is the latest price of 10 cadian shock troops.



This was from my collectors guide, the price of 20 models, that are exactly the same.



How is that physically possible?

Hi DanFST.
The original price was £15 for 20 models!

That is a 240% price increase . But apparently that is in line with inflation according to some . (Which was appx 50% over the same period.)

However, it IS appx in line with the pay increase Mr Kirby awarded himself over the same period though!

 DanFST wrote:
I
How is that physically possible?

Because people pay it, as Seaward said the best way to make GW reduce their prices is to simply stop buying anything from GW. This is exactly what I have done for years, Ebay or other manufacturers have all you need and in terms of rules GW games are well below average anyway so you can have a full and varied wargaming experience without paying GW a penny.

The best thing is that Cadians would have long since paid off their design costs so any money that they make now will be almost all 'profit'.

 Seaward wrote:
I'd advise people who find GW prices to be too expensive to not buy GW products. Until that occurs, you're just the addict telling his drug dealer that crack's too expensive.

Their prices are whatever they think they can get you to pay for them. As long as the people with controlling interests are happy, they don't care that you're not.

You say that as if you think GW sales are raising, or at least staying steady, and those of us that are complaining are still buying GW stuff anyway.
I'm sure there are a few people on here to whine and moan over prices then go buy 3 riptides but GW sales are plumeting. We are voting with our wallets, we are saying enough is enough and GWs response has been to raise prices again to milk even more out of those who haven't quite yet.

Lanrak wrote:
Hi DanFST.
The original price was £15 for 20 models!

That is a 240% price increase . But apparently that is in line with inflation according to some . (Which was appx 50% over the same period.)

However, it IS appx in line with the pay increase Mr Kirby awarded himself over the same period though!

It is a hefty price increase. But bear in mind that inflation figures are fiddled, in order to keep benefits and pensions low, and that inflation of discretionary items is much higher. The price of coffee and wine, two items definitely more important than GW models, has more than doubled in the last six years.

Lanrak wrote:
Hi DanFST.
The original price was £15 for 20 models!

That is a 240% price increase . But apparently that is in line with inflation according to some . (Which was appx 50% over the same period.)

However, it IS appx in line with the pay increase Mr Kirby awarded himself over the same period though!

I like it when they cut the box in half and several GW staff were trying to convince me they'd dropped in price as they were now £12...

 jonolikespie wrote:
You say that as if you think GW sales are raising, or at least staying steady, and those of us that are complaining are still buying GW stuff anyway.

Because I see quite a few people bitching about GW pricing schemes in one thread and talking about how they're going to paint their latest GW acquisition in another.

I'm sure there are a few people on here to whine and moan over prices then go buy 3 riptides but GW sales are plumeting.

How's their profitability?

We are voting with our wallets, we are saying enough is enough and GWs response has been to raise prices again to milk even more out of those who haven't quite yet.

Because their goal isn't to provide you with the best value for your money, it's to stay profitable. They've chosen to lower overhead and increase their margins. It's not necessarily a bad way to go as long as they've got a core audience, which they do.

Not that I particularly have a horse in the are GW prices extortionate race, but seeing DanFST's avatar made me go and look up the West Ham Season Ticket prices for this year vs 2003. (Yes I'm a numbers geek)

http://www.whufc.com/articles/20130418/201314-season-tickets-on-sale-now_2236884_3147937

http://www.whufc.com/articles/20030515/match-ticket-prices-announced_2236884_1135660

Roughly a 40 - 45% rise for the season ticket vs a 167% rise for the Imperial Guard.

I wonder if model designers' pay has risen in line with footballers? Interestingly, in that 10 year period, West Ham have gone from the first division to the Premier League, while Games Workshop .... (fill in the rest yourselves according to taste)

 Seaward wrote:

How's their profitability?

Currently fine, they have been in profit for a good few years but that's only a short term marker. Much more significant is their revenues which have stayed essentially flat for years, despite annual above inflation price rises so in other words they are losing sales year on year. That is unsustainable as a tipping point will eventually be reached.

 DanFST wrote:
I'm not going to post much, as I feel it's a useless debate, and this isn't the right place for it. However, I dug up my collectors guide from 2003ish and was shocked.

This is the latest price of 10 Cadian shock troops.



This was from my collectors guide, the price of 20 models, that are exactly the same.



How is that physically possible?

I noticed that too ... and I seriously thought, that must be a misprint in the collector's guide... 20 GW minis for almost the cost of ten of the same, today? Never!

Is that exclusively their sales revenue, or their revenues across the board? My impression is that their non-model stuff - especially IP licensing - is only getting bigger.

IIRC its their total revenues (IP licensing is a relatively new phenomenon for GW) but its been a while since I looked into it. There will be a few in depth threads on here somewhere though, usually the threads that discuss their latest financial reports.

I'd be surprised if that was the case, but I anything's possible. If so, it's even less incentive to revert back to pricing the way it was a decade ago.