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Does the 2nd Amendment specifically state we're allowed to easily purchase large caliber concealable firearms that can blow a hole through flesh and bone the size of a Grand Canyon?
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
No, I can't find it in there. I don't see anything about firearms for hunting either. Just something about the importance of militias. Do militias even really exist anymore?
And because the dissenting judge said it better than I could. (Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846))
At some point the the right to bear firearms in the service of a militia was twisted into everyone has the right to buy a handgun.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
shotgun is better for home defense. Machine guns are more fun to shoot, but they're not legal.
When you're defending your self you want control with the weapon. A shotgun is fine in the hands of a person who can aim correctly and handle the recoil.
For others a Rifle/Carbine/Pistol are better because they will have more control with a smaller weapon.
Also machine guns are legal if you take the proper steps to aquire one.. be prepared to pay out the wazzooo for one.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." He is interpreting that as you can bear arms in militias. That was the court pecident for a long time. Just thought I'd let you know .
On a side note, the 2nd amendment does not give you the right to any weapon you want just as the 1st does not allow you to say whatever you want. If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights. That's why automatic weapons and weapons over a certain caliber can be banned. I'm always amazed at how many people point to the second amendment, but don't know this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 14:16:21
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
What you are basically doing here is attempting to state that guns aren't the only explanation for homicides, therefore they are not part of the explanation at all. Which is just terrible analysis.
But hey, if you've got it all figured out, perhaps you could explain why the US has such a higher murder rate than other developed countries.
While guns aren't the only explanation for homicides, one thing that I think can/should be looked at is a comparison between the US and Switzerland. According to Wikipedia, Switzerland has just as much of a gun-rich culture as the US (as in, they are not averse to seeing/owning firearms), however they do have fewer gun deaths per year compared to the US.
So what gives? They would seem to be on the same level as the US is most every respect, except for the wealth divide. I mean, they have better working healthcare systems in place, I'd bet they have better education systems (as in free/cheap university fees), etc. All of which means greater economic "freedom" for everyone there. Couple that with the fact that they would seem to have clear guidance on their National gun laws vs, city/municipality laws (ie. what applies federally is also guaranteed to apply locally, unlike the US)
I dunno, there really is a ton going on there and if we could really figure out the best solutions to our greatest differences, some things may change
Ensis Ferrae wrote: While guns aren't the only explanation for homicides, one thing that I think can/should be looked at is a comparison between the US and Switzerland. According to Wikipedia, Switzerland has just as much of a gun-rich culture as the US (as in, they are not averse to seeing/owning firearms), however they do have fewer gun deaths per year compared to the US.
So what gives? They would seem to be on the same level as the US is most every respect, except for the wealth divide. I mean, they have better working healthcare systems in place, I'd bet they have better education systems (as in free/cheap university fees), etc. All of which means greater economic "freedom" for everyone there. Couple that with the fact that they would seem to have clear guidance on their National gun laws vs, city/municipality laws (ie. what applies federally is also guaranteed to apply locally, unlike the US)
I dunno, there really is a ton going on there and if we could really figure out the best solutions to our greatest differences, some things may change
Maybe some other factors include;
- lack of gang violence
- secure border that doesn't permit cartels to ship in guns and drugs (or the DoJ to send out guns)
- homogenized culture
- not vilifying gun owners
- better mental health services
- population size
Ensis Ferrae wrote: While guns aren't the only explanation for homicides, one thing that I think can/should be looked at is a comparison between the US and Switzerland. According to Wikipedia, Switzerland has just as much of a gun-rich culture as the US (as in, they are not averse to seeing/owning firearms), however they do have fewer gun deaths per year compared to the US.
So what gives? They would seem to be on the same level as the US is most every respect, except for the wealth divide. I mean, they have better working healthcare systems in place, I'd bet they have better education systems (as in free/cheap university fees), etc. All of which means greater economic "freedom" for everyone there. Couple that with the fact that they would seem to have clear guidance on their National gun laws vs, city/municipality laws (ie. what applies federally is also guaranteed to apply locally, unlike the US)
I dunno, there really is a ton going on there and if we could really figure out the best solutions to our greatest differences, some things may change
Maybe some other factors include;
- lack of gang violence
- secure border that doesn't permit cartels to ship in guns and drugs (or the DoJ to send out guns)
- homogenized culture
- not vilifying gun owners
- better mental health services
- population size
- Ammunition being much harder to come by and store on private property.
- The purpose of the firearms is geared towards a militia, rather than private use.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
Does the 2nd Amendment specifically state we're allowed to easily purchase large caliber concealable firearms that can blow a hole through flesh and bone the size of a Grand Canyon?
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
No, I can't find it in there. I don't see anything about firearms for hunting either. Just something about the importance of militias. Do militias even really exist anymore?
And because the dissenting judge said it better than I could. (Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846))
At some point the the right to bear firearms in the service of a militia was twisted into everyone has the right to buy a handgun.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
shotgun is better for home defense. Machine guns are more fun to shoot, but they're not legal.
When you're defending your self you want control with the weapon. A shotgun is fine in the hands of a person who can aim correctly and handle the recoil.
For others a Rifle/Carbine/Pistol are better because they will have more control with a smaller weapon.
Also machine guns are legal if you take the proper steps to aquire one.. be prepared to pay out the wazzooo for one.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
He is interpreting that as you can bear arms in militias. That was the court pecident for a long time. Just thought I'd let you know .
On a side note, the 2nd amendment does not give you the right to any weapon you want just as the 1st does not allow you to say whatever you want. If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights. That's why automatic weapons and weapons over a certain caliber can be banned. I'm always amazed at how many people point to the second amendment, but don't know this.
Just because that is the convenient interpretation the Supreme Court has decided on doesn't mean its right.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Does the 2nd Amendment specifically state we're allowed to easily purchase large caliber concealable firearms that can blow a hole through flesh and bone the size of a Grand Canyon?
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
No, I can't find it in there. I don't see anything about firearms for hunting either. Just something about the importance of militias. Do militias even really exist anymore?
And because the dissenting judge said it better than I could. (Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846))
At some point the the right to bear firearms in the service of a militia was twisted into everyone has the right to buy a handgun.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
shotgun is better for home defense. Machine guns are more fun to shoot, but they're not legal.
When you're defending your self you want control with the weapon. A shotgun is fine in the hands of a person who can aim correctly and handle the recoil.
For others a Rifle/Carbine/Pistol are better because they will have more control with a smaller weapon.
Also machine guns are legal if you take the proper steps to aquire one.. be prepared to pay out the wazzooo for one.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
He is interpreting that as you can bear arms in militias. That was the court pecident for a long time. Just thought I'd let you know .
On a side note, the 2nd amendment does not give you the right to any weapon you want just as the 1st does not allow you to say whatever you want. If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights. That's why automatic weapons and weapons over a certain caliber can be banned. I'm always amazed at how many people point to the second amendment, but don't know this.
Just because that is the convenient interpretation the Supreme Court has decided on doesn't mean its right.
Legally, it does. That's how American government works. Unless you want to stage a revolution and completely re-do america, your going to have to deal with it.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Co'tor Shas wrote: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
He is interpreting that as you can bear arms in militias. That was the court pecident for a long time. Just thought I'd let you know
U.S. Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1: Chapter 13 - The Militia
section 311 - Militia: composition and classes
(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—
(1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Going by US Code... all males between 17-45 that are not disabled are militia members
On a side note, the 2nd amendment does not give you the right to any weapon you want just as the 1st does not allow you to say whatever you want. If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights. That's why automatic weapons and weapons over a certain caliber can be banned. I'm always amazed at how many people point to the second amendment, but don't know this.
The 2nd amendment is suppose to grant people any and all arms. Up until 1968 you could purchase any weapon you wanted to in the united states and have it mailed directly to your door, hell there are catalog pages for purchasing Machineguns and Anti-tank rifles from the 50s.
If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights
Which should never happen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 17:45:01
"I LIEK CHOCOLATE MILK" - Batman
"It exist because it needs to. Because its not the tank the imperium deserve but the one it needs right now . So it wont complain because it can take it. Because they're not our normal tank. It is a silent guardian, a watchful protector . A leman russ!" - Ilove40k
3k
2k
/ 1k
1k
If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights
Which should never happen.
So there should be no prisons in the US? No mental institutions?
If you are going to disregard the social contract then you should think very carefully what that means, a couple of years living in Somalia would give you a good idea.
What you are basically doing here is attempting to state that guns aren't the only explanation for homicides, therefore they are not part of the explanation at all. Which is just terrible analysis.
But hey, if you've got it all figured out, perhaps you could explain why the US has such a higher murder rate than other developed countries.
While guns aren't the only explanation for homicides, one thing that I think can/should be looked at is a comparison between the US and Switzerland. According to Wikipedia, Switzerland has just as much of a gun-rich culture as the US (as in, they are not averse to seeing/owning firearms), however they do have fewer gun deaths per year compared to the US.
So what gives? ... ...
What gives is that the information is inaccurate.
In Switzerland gun holding is pretty widespread because of their system of a citizen army (a real one, not a "well ordered militia" on the US model.) A large proportion of the population therefore hold a weapon at home which is a state issued military item. Some years ago, though, due to concerns about the increasing use of these weapons for suicide, the rules were changed to keep the ammunition at the local army depot.
The Swiss on the whole don't feel a need to keep weapons for their own sake as private individuals. The weapon ownership pattern of shotguns and rifles for sporting uses is basically similar to other western European countries.
Boing Boing ran a very good article about the problems of gun research in the USA. Worth reading because it doesn't support either side of the argument.
Jebus. I had a real nightmare of a thought....Spider Potato Gun...after you try to shoot one at me in Aussie...and after I pry myself off the ceiling. I'm going to beat you with a fire axe, along with your car and make you eat that freaking gun side ways and force it out SIDEWAYS
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Whats a spider potato gun? It shoots spiders? Wouldn't they just kind of splat?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Frazzled wrote: Whats a spider potato gun? It shoots spiders? Wouldn't they just kind of splat?
This is my spider killing gun
Spoiler:
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
Frazzled wrote: Whats a spider potato gun? It shoots spiders? Wouldn't they just kind of splat?
Not those Aussie Spidies...
Shudders...
Looks like she brought her own reloads....
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Whats a spider potato gun? It shoots spiders? Wouldn't they just kind of splat?
This is my spider killing gun
Spoiler:
That won't even tickle the Aussie spiders.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Co'tor Shas wrote: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." He is interpreting that as you can bear arms in militias. That was the court pecident for a long time. Just thought I'd let you know
U.S. Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1: Chapter 13 - The Militia
section 311 - Militia: composition and classes
(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are— (1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Going by US Code... all males between 17-45 that are not disabled are militia members
On a side note, the 2nd amendment does not give you the right to any weapon you want just as the 1st does not allow you to say whatever you want. If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights. That's why automatic weapons and weapons over a certain caliber can be banned. I'm always amazed at how many people point to the second amendment, but don't know this.
The 2nd amendment is suppose to grant people any and all arms. Up until 1968 you could purchase any weapon you wanted to in the united states and have it mailed directly to your door, hell there are catalog pages for purchasing Machineguns and Anti-tank rifles from the 50s.
If there is a compelling reason the government can limit you rights
Which should never happen.
First off, I wasn't choosing a side on the militia quote, I was just saying what his position was because you did not seem to understand it. Second, actually read the 2nd amendment, specifically the part "well regulated". Third, were you there? Did you talk to the framers? If not, than it's up to the court to decide. If they rule that it meant that the government could ban certain guns, all you can do it get another amendment passed (which is about as likely as the NRA calling for all guns to be banned). Fourth, ever heard of yelling fire in a crowded theater. You have rights, right up until they infringe on others rights or well-being.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 20:21:43
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
None of the reasons I have seen given for infringing on the second have been good enough though.
Yelling ''fire'' in a crowded theater is good reason to restrict free speech. There is not any equivalent reason for restricting the 2nd.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/13 16:56:51
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Frazzled wrote: Whats a spider potato gun? It shoots spiders? Wouldn't they just kind of splat?
This is my spider killing gun
Spoiler:
That won't even tickle the Aussie spiders.
God bless Washington
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
Grey Templar wrote: None of the reasons I have seen given for infringing on the second have been good enough though.
Yealling ''fire'' in a crowded theatre is good reason to restrict free speech. There is not any equivilant reason for restricting the 2nd.
I'm not talking about 2nd amendment rights, I'm talking about rights in general. A good example for guns is you are not allowed to bring a gun into a crowded building.
Would you be OK with having to register to own guns?
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Then why aren't you complaining about having to register to vote? It's a right, so why do we have to register?
They should tie your voting history to your name as well
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch