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 Ahtman wrote:
Isn't this the game where the USA has a "god"?

IIRC it's an "Uncle Sam" skin for Ra that also makes his head more like an eagle's than a falcon's, or something like that.

Not sure, I haven't played this game in a really long time.

 RatBot wrote:

IIRC it's an "Uncle Sam" skin for Ra that also makes his head more like an eagle's than a falcon's, or something like that.

That sounds like what it probably was. It was a guy in Uncle Sam suit with an Eagle head and fireworks staff. Being a skin of something else explains a bit of the goofiness.

Ra-Merica is the skin you guys are talking about.

It's actually kind of bad ass.

That looks amazing.

Anyway, what the hell is actually being discussed in this thread? I see Hybrid Son basically arguing with the World, but what is the specific topic?

And regarding that comic on the first page- that argument always makes me laugh, because it's like, "who is anyone to make a broad definiition of what women fantasize about in other women?" Wonder Woman in her star-spangled bikini might represent a Male Fantasy, but I've yet to meet a Woman who didn't find her beautiful and envy her physique.

Not saying Wonder Woman is objectified, but 'objectified' and 'has a body worthy of envy' are not mutually exclusive.

 Ahtman wrote:

 RatBot wrote:

IIRC it's an "Uncle Sam" skin for Ra that also makes his head more like an eagle's than a falcon's, or something like that.

That sounds like what it probably was. It was a guy in Uncle Sam suit with an Eagle head and fireworks staff. Being a skin of something else explains a bit of the goofiness.

It was also a skin that each purchase was a donation towards a charity, red cross I think?

 Seaward wrote:
Dragon Age: Inquisition. It's going to be right up your alley, with its intentionally unattractive females.

Okay, just read the whole discussion, and you will see he does not care. All he cares about is proving me that Smite is awesome and so much better than LoL.

 Seaward wrote:
I think people massively overestimate the number of female gamers who have an issue with playing cheesecake.

Well, they massively underestimate the number of male gamer that have an issue with playing cheesecake too.
But really, from what I have seen among female members of Dakka, non-sexualized female characters are really missed.

 Seaward wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to do a study on giving women the choice between choosing a pretty, sexy avatar and a plain one. I think it would probably pretty closely mirror the results of giving men a choice between a hulked-out ass-kicker avatar and Joe Average.

That is a very, very biased comparison. People do not want plain avatar. They want omfgawesome avatars that are not sexualized. Do you really think the only way a female avatar could stand out is by being sexualized?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Well, they massively underestimate the number of male gamer that have an issue with playing cheesecake too.

Oh, so you got exact field data on this?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
That is a very, very biased comparison. People do not want plain avatar. They want omfgawesome avatars that are not sexualized. Do you really think the only way a female avatar could stand out is by being sexualized?

My experience with women in MMOs and computer RPGs where you can customize your character's look is that most tend to go for "as pretty as possible." Where sexy outfits are an option, many go for sexy outfits.

Is it the majority? Dunno. Are there other ways of doing awesome female avatars? Yep. Are women offended or put off by awesome female avatars that are sexy? Not the ones I've gamed with.

I think this is a genuine concern for a very small, very loud group of people. That doesn't invalidate it, but it's not the critical issue so many make it out to be. I'm much more concerned with things like accessibility in games.

 Seaward wrote:

I think this is a genuine concern for a very small, very loud group of people.

Pretty much sums up most of what self-proclaimed "feminists" claim nowadays.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Oh, so you got exact field data on this?

Same source as Seaward .

 Seaward wrote:
My experience with women in MMOs and computer RPGs where you can customize your character's look is that most tend to go for "as pretty as possible." Where sexy outfits are an option, many go for sexy outfits.

My experience with women in MMO is they do character like that:

(There is a female blood elf dark knight somewhere is that armor, it is Dakka's own Ashiraya character)
Granted, that is just one person, but apparently every female member of Dakka that I know of has express an interest in more non-sexualized character, so I am going to ask: from which women did you get that experience?

 Seaward wrote:
Are women offended or put off by awesome female avatars that are sexy? Not the ones I've gamed with.

I feel compelled to note the potential for confirmation bias here: if you are playing only games with only sexualized female avatar, of course the women that you are going to find while playing the game will be way more likely not to be put off by sexualized female avatar. Those that are put off will likely not play the game.

While I'd like my female avatar to be as pretty as possible (after my standards, naturally), I'd rather have them wear armor. I usually try to skip the 'metal bikinis' and the like. Those just aren't cool (same goes for helmets on both genderd. Real men don't wear helmets! ). Virtual women in heavy armor > virtual women with a large belt and plastic surgery.

Same goes for male characters, too, replacing pretty with cool (though they can be both at once - I'm sure people find Nathan Drake attractive). There's a reason I don't play Final Fantasy games, guise.

Sigvatr wrote:

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, they massively underestimate the number of male gamer that have an issue with playing cheesecake too.

Oh, so you got exact field data on this?

I think it's really not hard to find articles about game developers being surprised about backlash or called out about something sexist in their game. Even to the point where they felt they had to change or add something. And it should be evident that the number of said articles has increased over the past decade.

At the same time, a game's population type arguably depends on the game itself - as has been mentioned in this thread, AoC players rioted against smaller boobies. So obviously the general playerbase is split on the topic of objectification, and many gamers may appreciate it. Perhaps the amount of male gamers arguing against sexism is indeed much smaller than those who don't care about or even like it - but it is larger than the industry had expected, likely due to ongoing cultural changes and a greater awareness/sensitivity on part of the population.

Seaward wrote:My experience with women in MMOs and computer RPGs where you can customize your character's look is that most tend to go for "as pretty as possible." Where sexy outfits are an option, many go for sexy outfits.

Arguably, that depends on the game - both in terms of what alternate options the game actually offers, as well as what sort of women the game attracts. World of Warcraft, for example, with its focus on social interaction and status as an accepted mass phenomena in the western world, gets a lot of housewives, and many of them may be "brainwashed" by the everyday bombardment of idealised beauty in targeted advertisement and other media that may have shaped their understanding of how they "should" look. On the other hand, I have a feeling that the new generation "gamer girls" that are into Counterstrike and other traditionally male-focused games possess a somewhat different preference for player characters.
That being said, the majority of the latter I know tend to play male characters instead of female ones even in non-sexualised games. *shrug*

As a sidenote, I think you are being a bit dishonest when you say you "don't care one way or the other", as you apparently care enough to invest the time to participate in this discussion and promote an opinion. Especially judging by your previous participation in threads on the topic of sexism - be it in the real world, tabletop settings, or .. well, video games.

As a sidenote, I think you are being a bit dishonest when you say you "don't care one way or the other", as you apparently care enough to invest the time to participate in this discussion and promote an opinion.

I like big butts and I cannot lie*

*The above comment, while true, is mentioned primarily in jest so don't taze me

It all boils down to credibility - in a game that's all about fantasy and magicks, I don't mind having a female character with very generous clothing.

In other games, I prefer a more credible approach. I really like my Defiance character - she really looks like a believable character with regular, non-revealing clothing:

The extreme rarity of the armour type Hybrid Son showed displeases me. Well, rare for female characters at least...

That picture is actually photoshopped to hell and back to make it look decent. The base, OOC character model in the game looks like a damn barbie in 2d armour.

To put it into perspective, here is a quick render of the exact same character without any photoshop changes. (Excuse the buggy textures on the forehead and around the knees.) Look at the upper arms, the hands, the belly. It is a damn disgrace! Is this supposed to be plate?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

My experience with women in MMO is they do character like that:

Belonging to a female WoW group with over thirteen thousand members... it's a lot closer to 50-50 than you'd like to think. Many, many shares of transmogs that are of the chainmail bikini type.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

My experience with women in MMO is they do character like that:

Belonging to a female WoW group with over thirteen thousand members... it's a lot closer to 50-50 than you'd like to think. Many, many shares of transmogs that are of the chainmail bikini type.

My experience is the similar, but from what I have seen the chainmail bikinis are still far more common among neckbeards. (On their characters, not themselves. Sorry if I gave you bad mental images.)

~50% of all humans are female. We vary just as much as dudes do and WoW as a game favours chainmail bikinis due to the 2D armour design. This shifts the data.

Oh aye, on a average realm the greater percentage of sexy styled armour is likely to be played by men. However I was countering the suggestion that a overwhelming percentage of women prefer non sexy armour, which is clearly false based on groups I have belonged to, MMO's I have played and artists I have chatted with over the years.

As to the favouring note on WoW, I would have to note that no longer really exists thanks to transmogging.. if you don't like a chainmail bikini there is literally no reason to have one now in WoW, it takes a handful of gold and a few mins in the main capital city to get rid of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no, I see what you are referring to regarding the armour.. as in plate looks awful.. yeah, I can see that, it often does.

 Sigvatr wrote:
It all boils down to credibility - in a game that's all about fantasy and magicks, I don't mind having a female character with very generous clothing.

For me, it is more a question of tastes. They very rarely involve showing a lot of skin. I tend to like heavily armored women, but for instance my character in DC universe online, a MMORPG which is VERY good in term of character's look customization (you can get/win styles, and you just choose your style regardless of what gear you are wearing. And there is a huge variety, even among the very easily accessible styles), where it is very easy to get a female character as either a walking tank with a huge suit of exoarmor or wearing extremely skimpy outfit, I just went with this:

Neither armor at any rate, nor sexy, pretty casual actually, but really freaking cool imo. And I would take cool over sexy every goddamn time!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
and WoW as a game favours chainmail bikinis due to the 2D armour design. This shifts the data.

Yeah, I am afraid there might be a bit of bias confirmation here.

Might I remember you all of that plate set in WoW that's basically a thong with a bikinitop?

Ugh, I just remembered TERA online...
.
HIGH LEVEL ARMOR!!111!!

That armor is kind of another half of this. If your going to do sexy, can you at least make it actually sexy. Some times it isn't so much that it's impractically sexy or objectifying it is just that is is bad looking.

nomotog wrote:
That armor is kind of another half of this. If your going to do sexy, can you at least make it actually sexy. Some times it isn't so much that it's impractically sexy or objectifying it is just that is is bad looking.

This is both.

 Soladrin wrote:
Ugh, I just remembered TERA online...
.
HIGH LEVEL ARMOR!!111!!

Your avatar is so frighteningly fitting...

Yeah, a lot of times devs are going for "sexy" and just get "stupid" instead.

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, a lot of times devs are going for "sexy" and just get "stupid" instead.

It's even worse with modders.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, a lot of times devs are going for "sexy" and just get "stupid" instead.

It's even worse with modders.

Someone imported the entire TERA armor collection into Skyrim. It was a sad day.

 LordofHats wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, a lot of times devs are going for "sexy" and just get "stupid" instead.

It's even worse with modders.

Someone imported the entire TERA armor collection into Skyrim. It was a sad day.

It gets worse than that "armor".

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, a lot of times devs are going for "sexy" and just get "stupid" instead.

It's even worse with modders.

#notallmods .

Also going to leave this silly comic here: